What is Marcum's trade value?

[NYChez]

Changeup pitchers typically have good results at the beginning of seasons. If they are going to trade him, let him put together a good April and May first.

[brewmann04]

Marcum won't be getting us anything and we lost lawrie for him

[paul253]

paul, he will be a Type A free agent, no questions asked

I was just making sure. There are going to be some very good potential free agent pitchers that offseason. I didn't know if that may push him down to a type B. The other issue though would be the new CBA. I suppose it's possible the draft compensation rules will be changed.

[DHonks]

type A or B doesn't depend on free agency status. If depends on where you rank among MLB players at your position.

[nate82]

To answer my own original question: Whatever his value is it is dropping by the minute. At this point I almost say we have to hold on to him because we aren't going to get anything of value. If a team is willing to give us a pitching prospect who has the ceiling of a #3 and is at AA or higher, I'd take him. Or if we can get a prospect who has the ceiling of an every day player and is not a second basemen or center fielder, I'd take him. But, they may just be better hanging onto him and hope he can be a type A. It seems like outside of Fielder, Marcum is the biggest question mark.

As I stated before Marcum's value is not going to decline because of what happened in the playoffs and it wasn't going to increase either if the results were different. Marcum is who he is. He is a control pitcher that has a Suppan like fastball and if he can not spot his off speed pitches he his a home run derby waiting to happen as he is not going to get many batters out with his fastball. Marcum is a good #3 pitcher I am not sure why anyone thought he was a #2 or a #1 caliber pitcher. I still believe the Brewers could get a good prospect for him and I still believe the White Sox or the Yankees would be a good match for the Brewers the White Sox more so as they have a SS who is blocked.

Maybe do a Marcum and Gamel/Green deal for Escobar and another player from the White Sox. That solves the 3B dilemma for the White Sox and they also get a good #3 pitcher to place in their rotation.

[MNBrew]

Marcum won't be getting us anything and we lost lawrie for him

As much as I'm confounded my Marcum's total collapse his last 7 starts, we don't win the division and may not make the postseason if we have 2 of Narveson, Estrada, Capuano, Rogers, Peralta, or Rivas filling out the #4-5 spots in the rotation.

 

Would you rather have just not gotten to the playoffs?

 

Marcum's collapse raises plenty of questions going forward in terms of what kind of pitcher he really is, but there's still no doubt in my mind that that trade was an outstanding one by Melvin. That deal & keeping Fielder set up the Greinke trade (remember, Greinke had to drop Milwaukee from his no-trade list for the deal to happen, which he did upon looking at the Brewers -- including Marcum & Fielder -- more closely). No Marcum & no Greinke means we're looking at another season like 2010 out of our rotation all over again -- might as well just go re-sign Braden Looper & pray Jarrod Washburn has something left in his tank, too!

 

And there's no way we're set up well for the future just b/c we still have Lawrie. Yeah, we coulda hit like gangbusters, but without good pitching, we don't come close to sniffing the playoffs. While the offense wasn't good for most of the NLCS, the difference in the NLCS was that our pitching totally slumped and we were forced to play catch up all series long. For 2 games it worked, but for 4 games it didn't and now we're at home.

 

We've all got every reason to be extremely frustrated w/ Marcum's collapse. But to suggest this was a lousy trade is wishful revisionist thinking b/c no Marcum, no playoffs.

[RockCoCougars]

I think we have to gauge where Kansas City is at in their 'plan'. With some of the young studs in that lineup, they may think that they can compete in that brutal division next year. To compete, you need a good veteran arm. A hometown boy, who's had lot's of off season success without too much cash commitment could be tempting.

[Hate those Rodents]

Marcum won't be getting us anything and we lost lawrie for him

As much as I'm confounded my Marcum's total collapse his last 7 starts, we don't win the division and may not make the postseason if we have 2 of Narveson, Estrada, Capuano, Rogers, Peralta, or Rivas filling out the #4-5 spots in the rotation.

No, I wanted Cappy back cheap like we could have done.

 

 

[nate82]

No, I wanted Cappy back cheap like we could have done.

 

 

So one Narveson isn't enough in the rotation? Capuano wouldn't have been any better than Narveson I don't see how the Brewers win as many games as they did with 2 #5's in the rotation.

[Hate those Rodents]

Put Lawrie at third and answer how we'd do in the postseason

[JohnBriggs12]

While Marcum's playoff meltdown was stunning, to me even more disturbing was Greinke's performance. While obviously not as ghastly bad as Marcum, Greinke showed no signs he was anywhere near the dominant pitcher that won the 09 AL Cy Young. Greinke was so unimpressive, that it's caused me to do a 180 and say no way should they extend him at least not for anything near what's been talked about.

 

With Marcum's trade value having plummeted and sorely in need of a couple months of return to his early 2011 form, I'd explore dealing Greinke while he may have some teams interested enough to give some quality back.

 

Certainly the case that you couldn't possibly pay Fielder because you need that cash for Greinke, to me is completely flawed. Greinke isn't a guy I'd give a big long term contract to.

[jmeks23]

Greinke got screwed in game 5, but yeah he didn't look good in the other starts. He just had an odd season all around to be honest. You look at his peripherals and they jump off the page at you yet he got hit HARD all year long and paid dearly for it. I almost feel like he was tipping his pitches or something. He mentioned himself that he 'grunts' when he throws a fastball, and some of the announcers in either the LCS or LDS mentioned he slows his delivery down when he's throwing a curveball.

 

I still like him and I don't know if he even would take an extension but if he would I'd do it. I think having a full spring training to work out kinks (instead of on the fly) will be a lot better.

 

As far as Marcum, he really let everyone down this post-season. Himself, the team, RR, and obviously us the fans. He just looked awful, and as much as I thought he'd bounce back last night he fell flat on his face instead. I know he doesn't have great stuff but he just threw meatballs all post-season, and had literally no command of anything.

 

The trade was still worth it, but I almost hope he gets traded this offseason if we can get a nice bat for him. I'll take my chances with Gallardo, Greinke, Wolf, Narveson, Peralta.

[nate82]

The trade was still worth it, but I almost hope he gets traded this offseason if we can get a nice bat for him. I'll take my chances with Gallardo, Greinke, Wolf, Narveson, Peralta.

Fiers is more likely to be in the rotation next year than Peralta.

[PrinceEatMeat]

The trade was still worth it, but I almost hope he gets traded this offseason if we can get a nice bat for him. I'll take my chances with Gallardo, Greinke, Wolf, Narveson, Peralta.

Fiers is more likely to be in the rotation next year than Peralta.

I agree with this. I think Peralta could use a full year in AAA. He'd obviously be an option as the 6th starter, but I doubt he would be the 5th starter to start the year over Fiers or other candidates. Don't see the organization rushing him.

[nate82]

Peralta will get a shot to be in the rotation but he will spend most of the year in AAA. I don't see anything Peralta has to learn or prove in AAA other than he just needs to command his pitches better otherwise he has nothing to prove and doesn't really need to be in AAA. Fiers is just more advanced than Peralta is right now with his command. Peralta will be in Milwaukee in 2012 at some point either due to an injury or someone not performing or a trade happens.

[chickinbrickin]

I don't think they can trade Marcum this offseason. His postseason performance has his trade value at an all-time low. I can guarantee he will be the good Marcum at the start of the year. I said it last night, he threw more innings this season that any other season in his career, and that isn't including the innings in the playoffs. I know for a fact his arm was shot, and is the reason he couldn't command anything the last month or so.

 

He will dominate the first half just like last year. At the break see where the team is at. Hopefully they will be contending, but if not move him then and maximize the return. He is not as bad as he looked the last month. Look at his career stats.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Peralta will get a shot to be in the rotation but he will spend most of the year in AAA. I don't see anything Peralta has to learn or prove in AAA other than he just needs to command his pitches better otherwise he has nothing to prove and doesn't really need to be in AAA. Fiers is just more advanced than Peralta is right now with his command. Peralta will be in Milwaukee in 2012 at some point either due to an injury or someone not performing or a trade happens.

Exactly the point. He needs to be in AAA to work on command. We can't afford to have a guy in our rotation with command issues. Maybe he gets hot in Spring Training and gets the nod, but I would think he'll be in AAA. Mainly because I doubt we'll trade any of our starters anyway.

[chickinbrickin]

Peralta will get a shot to be in the rotation but he will spend most of the year in AAA. I don't see anything Peralta has to learn or prove in AAA other than he just needs to command his pitches better otherwise he has nothing to prove and doesn't really need to be in AAA. Fiers is just more advanced than Peralta is right now with his command. Peralta will be in Milwaukee in 2012 at some point either due to an injury or someone not performing or a trade happens.

Exactly the point. He needs to be in AAA to work on command. We can't afford to have a guy in our rotation with command issues. Maybe he gets hot in Spring Training and gets the nod, but I would think he'll be in AAA. Mainly because I doubt we'll trade any of our starters anyway.

I agree, he will start the year in AAA no matter how he does in spring training. He can work more on his comand, and my guess is he will dominate again and the Brewers will be forced to call him up. I just can't see them giving him a shot in the rotation to start the year. Look how long it took them to give Green a shot in the bigs and then honestly never even really gave him a shot because he never played.

 

 

[nate82]

Green isn't in the same talent level as Peralta though. I'm not that big on Peralta but I still see Peralta as a better prospect who has more potential than Green. At worst Peralta is a mid rotation guy and Green at worst is a AAAA type player. When you look at their ceilings Peralta goes even further as a possible #1 or #2 pitcher. Green at best is going to be an average 3B. So comparing Green and Peralta is like comparing water to whiskey.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Yeah, Peralta is definitely a better talent. There's no doubt about that. But that doesn't mean he'll succeed right away. It's better to bring him along slowly and give him the chance to succeed. I think he'll start in AAA, gain some confidence and hone in his control, then come up and help the team at some point during the season. Then in 2013 he'll be in the rotation for sure, possibly as high as the #3 starter depending on what happens with Greinke, Marcum, and Wolf.

[chickinbrickin]

Green isn't in the same talent level as Peralta though. I'm not that big on Peralta but I still see Peralta as a better prospect who has more potential than Green. At worst Peralta is a mid rotation guy and Green at worst is a AAAA type player. When you look at their ceilings Peralta goes even further as a possible #1 or #2 pitcher. Green at best is going to be an average 3B. So comparing Green and Peralta is like comparing water to whiskey.

When did I ever compare Peralta to Green? I was using Green as an example of how this organization feels about young talent that could help the big league squad. They tend to shy away from using them if they don't have to. Peralta is going to have to dominate AAA and force their hand.

[nate82]

Green isn't in the same talent level as Peralta though. I'm not that big on Peralta but I still see Peralta as a better prospect who has more potential than Green. At worst Peralta is a mid rotation guy and Green at worst is a AAAA type player. When you look at their ceilings Peralta goes even further as a possible #1 or #2 pitcher. Green at best is going to be an average 3B. So comparing Green and Peralta is like comparing water to whiskey.

When did I ever compare Peralta to Green? I was using Green as an example of how this organization feels about young talent that could help the big league squad. They tend to shy away from using them if they don't have to. Peralta is going to have to dominate AAA and force their hand.

No, Peralta was in consideration as the #5 starter this spring until he didn't perform and the job was given to Narveson. I fully expect Peralta to get a chance again this coming spring. You didn't have to compare him as using Green as an example of the Brewers using rookies or not using a rookie is dependent on the player.

[JohnBriggs12]

Peralta has logged 100 more minor league innings than Gallardo had before his first callup. I fully expect a starter will be traded as 2 of them are under control one more year and the other has an expensive option for 2013. Peralta will have first shot at that spot. But he won't be the only one competing. Estrada, Fiers, and De la Cruz will also be competing to fill that spot and I think they'll bring in one more veteran low level FA type too.

[JohnBriggs12]

Green isn't in the same talent level as Peralta though. I'm not that big on Peralta but I still see Peralta as a better prospect who has more potential than Green. At worst Peralta is a mid rotation guy and Green at worst is a AAAA type player. When you look at their ceilings Peralta goes even further as a possible #1 or #2 pitcher. Green at best is going to be an average 3B. So comparing Green and Peralta is like comparing water to whiskey.

When did I ever compare Peralta to Green? I was using Green as an example of how this organization feels about young talent that could help the big league squad. They tend to shy away from using them if they don't have to. Peralta is going to have to dominate AAA and force their hand.

No, Peralta was in consideration as the #5 starter this spring until he didn't perform and the job was given to Narveson. I fully expect Peralta to get a chance again this coming spring. You didn't have to compare him as using Green as an example of the Brewers using rookies or not using a rookie is dependent on the player.

No, Peralta was in competition for the temporary spot due to Greinke's injury. Eventually Estrada beat him out. Narveson went to ST last year with the 5th spot locked up.

 

 

[Roscoe Chill]

Heaven forbid they call on a guy before he turns 25.