Thoughts on the 2012 roster

[MVP2110]

So I know we have talked about this alot but what do you guys see the lineup/rotation/bullpen like for 2012. And what do you think will happen with the money we would normally spend on Prince. Personally I think they will try to find a defensive wiz at short either through trade(Narv or Wolf?) and sign someone like a Derrek Lee at 1st. I think we will also extend Greinke and maybe Marcum as well. I don't see us putting a ton of money into the bullpen as I think Melvin will go with mostly young guys there. What do you guys think?

[chadomac]

With Prince leaving, the only realistic possibilities to upgrade the offense is the SS and maybe 3B position. Shortstops that can hit are hard to find and Reyes isn't going to happen, nor do I want them to pay the money he's going to get... so I'm sure Yuni B's replacement is going to be underwhelming but still a mild upgrade, at least defensively. I want to believe Green has a shot at 3B but they'll probably give it to McGehee again unless he really plays terribly down the stretch this year. I'm really happy with all the other positions and I'm sure they can piece together a decent bullpen after Saito, Hawkins, and Rodriguez leave.

[RockCoCougars]

Derrek Lee is washed up. I think if Prince leaves, the job should be Gamel's to lose.

[StearnsFTW]

Derrek Lee is washed up. I think if Prince leaves, the job should be Gamel's to lose.

While I agree about Lee and Gamel, I wouldn't mind Berkman at 1st base on a 2 year deal........that's just me.

[Warning Track Power]

All assuming Prince leaves:

*Based on their performances this season, and assuming they do not retire, I fully expect to see Saito and Hawkins back in the bullpen in 2012, with them splitting the 8th Inning duties currently held by K-Rod.

*Gamel will be at 1B. Wouldn't be surprised to see a D. Lee type as a backup 1B to start vs. LH.

*Greinke will be extended. (Majority of Prince $ goes here)

*Marcum will be extended. (Rest of Prince $ goes here)

*Wolf will be traded in a deal for a SS. (Thinking the Red Sox may work. Lowrie or Iglesias. Some kind of trade like this to get a decent SS. Gives the team financial flexibility as well).

*YuBet is bought out

*Nyjer Gomez will be our CF

*Hairston will be the new Counsell

[nate82]

Derrek Lee is washed up. I think if Prince leaves, the job should be Gamel's to lose.

What about Berkman on a 3-year deal? While I do believe it is Gamel's job to lose I still believe he would be best used as a corner OF as he does have a strong arm.

I believe McGehee and Hart may get traded probably not both but one will not be with the Brewers next year. The Indians make the most sense in terms of a trading partner where the Brewers could trade either Hart or McGehee for Valbuena. If Hart is traded the Brewers would need to get more back than Valbuena.

[FVBrewerFan]

How about Ruben Tejada at SS? If they hold on to Reyes, the Mets may be open to moving him. Better defensively, and he has a nice swing. No power at all, but I think his OBP will get better.

[RockCoCougars]

I'm a big fan of Berkman. He's noticably bad in right field though from what I've seen. He'd have to play at first, which would mean another shift for Gamel. Don't know if I'd give him more than two years though. Definitely a buy high situation too.

[paul253]

- Betancourt's option picked up (hey I don't like it either but he's getting hot at the right time and there aren't a whole lot of other options)

- Gamel to first base

- Green and McGehee to fight for third base. The loser is a bench player with McGehee spelling Gamel when Gamel needs off

- Offer arby to K-Rod, Hawkins, and Saito. Saito is old but has had a very successful career and is pitching well now. Ditto to Hawkins. I don't think K-Rod will accept as he wants to be the closer and he knows he won't be in Milwaukee. I think he is also represented by Boras is he not? I doubt Boras wants his player accepting arbitration and would rather go for a big contract. But even if he does, you get that dominant 8th-9th inning combo we have now. And yes that's a lot to pay for a setup man but does it really make a difference when Axford is not getting paid like an all star closer? Obviously this changes if the compensation for free agents changes with a new CBA. But as it stands now the Brewers could really use the extra picks. I am really worried we will we get a second round pick for Fielder.

- Figure out what the heck is wrong with Braddock. We need him in the pen. Same with Parra (remember him?)

- Get Mark Rogers healthy. I think he could be the long man in the bullpen and good for spot starts if necessary. He is out of options so something has to give. Yes he's been injury plagued but he still throws mid 90's doesn't he?

- Re-sign Jerry Hairston to fill a bench role.

- Sign a veteran outfield bat (Ludwick maybe?).

 

Roster would look something like this

 

Starters (5) Gallardo, Greinke, Wolf, Narveson, Marcum

Bullpen 7 (Axford, Lowe, Braddock, Rogers, Parra, Defelice, K-Rod/Hawkins/Saito-I'm sure one of them will accept arby)

Outfield (5) Braun, Morgan, Hart, Gomez, FA

Infield (8) Lucroy, Backup catcher, Gamel, Weeks, Green, McGehee, Hairston, Betancourt)

 

Biggest question marks are obviously the bullpen and Gamel. Bullpen obviously relies heavily on who accepts arby and whether or not Parra, Braddock, and Rogers can be relied on. Not a whole lot of money being spent on FA's so take the money saved on extend Marcum and Greinke!

[nate82]

I'm a big fan of Berkman. He's noticably bad in right field though from what I've seen. He'd have to play at first, which would mean another shift for Gamel. Don't know if I'd give him more than two years though. Definitely a buy high situation too.

I actually think the Red Sox will end up with Berkman having him play RF/DH for them mostly DH though. Maybe the Brewers can swing a deal for Lars Anderson who the Red Sox look to have soured on along with others. I think Gamel is better served to be playing in RF at least that is my opinion on where I think Gamel should be playing. Trading Hart/McGehee for a SS would be the ideal situation if the Brewers were to move Gamel to the OF.

[paul253]

I want to add about trading Wolf if you can get something good for him. Peralta would be a good candidate for the #5 spot and it serve him well to be the #5 pitcher next season. Little pressure with three aces in front of you. It would certainly make the transition easier than it would if he has to come up in 2013 while Milwaukee is looking to replace two or three free agent pitchers and is in desperate need of starting pitching.

[BillScottCanRake]

I thought I read that when the Brewers and K-Rod re-did the buyout they also agreed the Brewers wouldn't offer him arbitration. Google hasn't helped me clarify that, so maybe someone here can?

 

EDIT: Nevermind- JSOnline reported the opposite in July.

 

http://stephaniehillberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/nothing-to-see-here.jpg

[adambr2]

I actually would prefer we offer arby to K-Rod. Normally you don't want to pay that much for a setup man, but it's just going to be a 1 year overpriced deal like Gagne was. The worst case scenario is that we invest about $5M more than we otherwise would in him next year for just one year and have absolutely zero bullpen concerns going into next year.

 

The best case scenario, which I still think is far more likely, is that K-Rod leaves and we get valuable draft picks for our rebuilding farm. His agent is Boras. He has the option to test the market and be one of the top FA closer options on the market. Do you really think he's going to come back on a 1 year deal knowing he's going to be the setup man, (which will hurt his value further after next year), not even seeing what he might get on the market? I doubt it very much.

[sveumrules]

Mat Gamel has barely played any OF in his professional career and has played primarily 1B this year, if he was better suited for the outfield I think the organization would have penciled him in for more than the dozen or so random games he's seen out there.

 

I don't think it's come up in this thread, but I also think people need to give up on the idea of Corey Hart at 1B. He hasn't spent any real time there in over 5 years. Though it did crack me up on 1250 today when the Big Unit rhetorically asked, "When's the last time Corey played first? College?"

[FVBrewerFan]

How about Braun at 1B? With Prince out of the picture, it really gives the Brewers the opportunity to improve defense at various positions. Green is probably a slight upgrade at 3B, anybody is an upgrade over Yuni at SS, Braun would arguably be an improvement over Prince, and Gindl or any number of free agents or trade candidates woud be an improvement over Braun in LF. On offense, you're basically replacing Gamel with Gindl (or some other corner OF) in the "master plan." You're substituting power for defense. Now, in no way do I expect Braun to move to 1B, I just think it's worth considering.

 

I'm just really concerned about Gamel's blind spot- the low and inside pitch. It just makes me nervous that he is apparently the heir-apparent to Prince's throne at 1B. I hope I'm wrong, because I would love to see Gamel produce numbers close to what he's been able to do in Nashville.

[JohnBriggs12]

"he's apparently the heir-apparent to Prince's throne at 1B"

 

Is he really? Gamel has been for the most part a fine minor league hitter, but he's 26 and has yet to make any impact at the major league level. It appears now that for 2012 he'll get a shot to be the everyday 1st baseman but this isn't anything like what happened when the Brewers traded Overbay to make room for then a 21 year old Fielder. The assumption then was Fielder was "the guy" at least as long as they had him under control. Gamel simply isn't in that category. Not that he can't get there, but he'll need to produce next year or they'll likely look elsewhere.

 

For the right price, I could see them looking at Berkman, and perhaps dealing Gamel. Berkman does bring some star quality that will be sorely missed if Prince leaves. I could see a situation where there is a 3 man rotation at the 2 corner spots involving Berkman, Green and McGehee. Berkman at 36 won't be able to play every day.

[WV Brew]

Berkman OPS was under .800 in 2010. He has found it again this year but I wouldn't count on him having many more good years. Not interested. I prefer to see what Gamel can do. A platoon of Green/McGehee, Hart/Gindl and Gomez/Schafer could go a long way to improving the offense (some of them light platoons favoring the veteran). Sell high on Morgan. We'll have to wait and see what is available at SS.

[joepepsi]

I go with Gamel at 1B, Green at 3rd. McGehee backs up both.

 

I wouldn't be against Berkman, he's always been one of my favorites, but I wouldn't want him taking AB's away from Gamel. You know if someone of his stature is signed he will be the everyday 1B.

[Roderick]

- Betancourt's option picked up (hey I don't like it either but he's getting hot at the right time and there aren't a whole lot of other options)

I agree with not a lot of options, but I still wouldn't give Yuni $4M ($6M option less KC pymt of $2M). I would consider Yuni at a lesser rate for one year, but I doubt he would look for something that wasn't multiyear. But let him go shop and if he can't find a desperate GM maybe he comes back to the Brewers for a one-year contract for 2012.

[Roderick]

How about Ruben Tejada at SS? If they hold on to Reyes, the Mets may be open to moving him. Better defensively, and he has a nice swing. No power at all, but I think his OBP will get better.

That would work for me.

 

Also for those that want to trade away Wolf, what are you going to do with that extra money? Are you spending money on 1B and using Gamel as bench? Because if you assume Gamel gets the 1B job and we don't get stupid with Reyes, then we won't really be spending any big money on position players. So you would look to spend on pitching. Is there starting pitching free-agents-to-be out there that are going to pitch better than Wolf for his salary slot? Seems to me the scenario where we trade away Wolf would be if Mark A. goes fullout for Fielder, frontloads the contract, and uses Wolf's money to balance the budget.

[reillymcshane]

Here's my go at 2012 roster:

 

C - Lucroy, Kottaras

1B - Gamel (give him a chance, if he flames out, so be it. but just having him rot at AAA is stupid at this point)

2B - Weeks

SS - Barmes (very good defense, .250 BA, gets some walks, shouldn't cost a ton of money and won't cost a draft pick)

3B - Green or McGehee (Potentially platoon, other guy is bat off the bench, McGehee could even take over at 1B if Gamel tanks)

INF - Hairston - the new Counsel - should see plenty of ABs backing up all over the place - wont' cost more than 2-3 million

LF - Braun

CF - Morgan/Gomez - Platoon

RF - Hart

BU OF - Gindl, Kotsay or FA (For some reason I think they'll bring back Kotsay for the veteran grit. Hopefully not. I'd rather get a younger guy.

 

This offers some balance of younger players, some lefties - and without spending too much. Also, you have financial flexibility (my roster should be in the low $80 million) so that if you need an addition, you have the ability to add mid season (like with K-Rod and hairston).

 

SP - Greinke

SP - Marcum

SP - Wolf

SP - Gallardo

SP - Narveson

 

RP - Axford, Saito (resign 1 year deal), Hawkins (resign 1 year deal), Loe, Peralta (possibly). Then you get the rest of the guys from McClendon, Braddock, Stetter, Parra (probably non-tender to save money), Kintzler, DeFelice, Dillard, Estrada, and anyone else I forgot. I don't mind bringing back Hawk and Saito, especially on one-year deals. If they falter, it's not the end of the world. I'm okay with adding a good veteran reliever if it's a one-year deal - but not for more than a few million.

 

For Peralta, I'd start in the bullpen (unless they really hate the idea and want him to stay stretched out). Atlanta has had great success with some young bullpen arms. I don't have a problem using him there if he's better than other guys. He can start if there is an injury, or someone falters. He is then groomed to go into the rotation in 2013, when Marcum, Greinke and Wolf are all free agents.

 

In the end, you don't need to do a ton. You're free agent moves would be minimal - I imagine 1 or 2 year deals for the guys we'd want back. The big deal would be rolling the dice on Gamel and/or Green as starters, and/or McGehee rebounding. We need 2 of 3 to happen to make the offense respectable.

 

I like the idea of Green at 3B and Gamel at 1B - plus Barmes at SS. It improves our defense tremendously. That would help our pitchers as well.

 

EDIT: I would be cool with a younger glove guy, like Tejada. Just not sure of the cost to trade for a guy like that.

 

As stated, we could probably spend no more than $85 million. That would give us some spare change should we need to make a trade during the season.

[CheezWizHed]

I realize that this is a Brewer fan tradition (end of August and focused on next year), but I'm just happy to not only be in a playoff race, but leading the division. I'll wait until the offseason to make wild guesses about next year.

[paul253]

I realize that this is a Brewer fan tradition (end of August
and focused on next year), but I'm just happy to not only be in a
playoff race, but leading the division. I'll wait until the offseason
to make wild guesses about next year.

What is the point of this post? If you don't want to make a guess about the 2012 roster, don't open the thread entitled "Thoughts on the 2012 roster". I don't mean to sound like a jerk but I've seen a number of posts like this in various threads. If you think its too early to talk about 2012, that's fine. But others are obviously enjoying it so let it go. I started on thread on the 2012 draft awhile ago and someone chimed in with something like "just enjoy this year and worry about the draft later". I can't enjoy this year and wonder how strong the 2012 draft is going to be at the same time?

Anyway, my question is this. Who, if anyone, is mostly likely or most.....able.....to be traded to upgrade shortstop? McGehee, Wolf, Narveson, or Hart? I think if you can get a young, cheap every day shortstop who can hit .260 with a .320 OBP but brings in above average to good defense, you jump on the opportunity. Bentancourt is fine I guess, but I just wince at the idea of paying him $6 million next year. The 4 I listed above are the regulars I can see being the likeliest to be traded. You can really go a long way in improving the defense by inserting Green, Gamel, and a defensive minded shortstop into the lineup.

[Beast Light]

I go with Gamel at 1B, Green at 3rd. McGehee backs up both.

 

I wouldn't be against Berkman, he's always been one of my favorites, but I wouldn't want him taking AB's away from Gamel. You know if someone of his stature is signed he will be the everyday 1B.

This is exactly what I am hoping for. Its effective, everything's already lined up and its cheap. If the Brewers are lucky, the production between Gamel/Green will come close to matching the production between Fielder/McGehee. Defensively, it would probably be an overall slight upgrade.

 

IMO, there is no need to go out and sign someone to play 1B or 3B. Save that money and use it in an effort to extend Marcum and/or Greinke. The Brewers are a winner now and if they are going to stay a winner, they will need to rely on their farm system to deliver affordable MLB talent.

 

 

[rousieboy]

Saito had a do not offer arbitration clause attached.