Jungmann's mechanics

[sveumrules]

Now that Jungmann is officially in the fold I was just curious about what people's opinions were in regards to his mechanics meeting our spotty track record developing pitchers as an organization? Are there some minor adjustments that can be made or should we just let him fly with what has worked for him thus far and see what the results are?

[Tbadder]

Let me preference this--I know next to nothing compared to the guys who specialize in this section of the site, and worse still I've only seen Jungmann pitch in the CWS, so given that I'm coming from a dubious place, so let me say this...man oh man is that guy stiff. His mechanics to me seem like he thinking through every pitch...come to set, raise arm at 11 0'clock and step forward, hit release point and follow through...etc.

 

I didn't see anything natural to his whole approach. In addition his fastball looked awfully straight and quite frankly hittable. After the Arnett fiasco I'm just crossing my fingers that this guy can become a usable 4/5 starter. Unlike Arnett, I think Taylor's delivery is repeatable, so he's bound to be better, but I can't lie,I was kinda hoping, quietly mind you, that he wouldn't sign.

[paul253]

I also have only seen him pitch in the CWS, but the first time I saw him my own elbow started to hurt. His delivery just looks really strange to me and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see an injury sometime in the future.

[YoungGeezy]

Mechanics are not good , at all. Arm and body are not lose, doesn't use lower body well, very jerky and violent with delievery. People keep saying they hope he starts in AA or whatever but he has a lot of work to do to fix some of these issues. Bradley is much more smooth and natural in my opinion. If he was to use his long body properly or learn to use his legs he could easily sit in the 94-97 range instead of the 90-93 but he is all arm. His command would also be better and more consistant.

[HiAndTight]

Comments seem to be a bit more harsh here than on scouting reports, and it also seems to me that Texas has a pretty looong line of pitchers from that program and pretty astute pitching coaches.

 

Might there be something to that? Could the truth lie somewhere in the middle between "hoping" for a 4/5(which frankly is ridiculous) and perfect mechanics.

[dadofandrew]

Well, compared to Wil Inman, he's smooth as silk.

 

I just checked 4 scouting reports on him, and 3 said his motion was ok or solid, and one said he may need to simplify a bit. Sounds like for the most part, it's fine.

[filthyfrog]

I think most people here are judging Jungmann based on his CWS appearances after the Brewers drafted him. That three game stretch just happened to be the worst three game stretch of his career, as far as I know, so I think the perceptions are a bit biased. If people here had watched any of his myriad dominant performances instead of the CWS games, they'd probably have a different opinion.

[jmeks23]

Well the CWS games were the biggest of his career thus far and he didn't have a strong showing. Criticism is warranted, though not necessarily fair. We will see next year how good he and Bradley can really be because they'll probably start in low A (just to give the Brewers fans taste) and could end up at Double A by the end of the season.

[sveumrules]

In terms of results, he definitely has an extremely impressive body of work against what is widely considered to be the best amateur competition out there. I'm not basing my concerns on the results of a few late season starts, especially when he has pitched superlatively in the CWS in years past.

 

I've also only ever seen him pitch in video on line and am not a pitching coach of any repute, but from what I've seen of his motion it just seems like an injury waiting to happen. Granted, that could be said accurately about pretty much every pitcher out there as at some point or another they all experience arm related problems of one severity or another.

 

It seems the best course of action is probably just to leave him alone and see what the results are, both in terms of performance and health, and then re-evaluate after some time.

[TheCrew07]

I think that anyone who believes Jungmann will start high in the system and move fast is sipping the organizational cool aid a bit much. Nothing I've seen suggests that he'll move fast. Yes I only saw him pitch in the NCAA tourney (regionals and College WS) but there was plenty of video out there on draft day to confirm what we were seeing wasn't a fluke, at least delivery wise.

 

I like his frame and I like his competitiveness on the mound.

 

I despise his mechanics, especially his short stride... In my opinion it hurts his command and his velocity.

 

Pitch wise his 4 seam is straight, as all 4 seam FBs are, but he doesn't have pinpoint command with the pitch which topped out around 94. He doesn't control his 2 seamer very well either, I deleted both games off my DVR long ago but I don't recall many if any being thrown for strikes, and it sat 88-89. He locates his curve well, but it's not an impressive pitch, it just kind of loops in there without any bite. It's on the opposite side of the spectrum of a Sheet's hammer for example, it's a very average MLB pitch, maybe even slightly below average. He didn't throw enough sliders for me to get any kind of feel for the pitch, but I did like his change, and he located it well the couple of times he threw it to LHB.

 

If he could fix his mechanics in the AFL and spring training he could hit the ground round running with better control and velocity next season, but all of his secondary pitches need a ton of work. The only way I know of to fix those pitches is repetition, someone might teach him a new grip or different release for the various pitches, but even so he'll have to learn to throw them consistently. There's no easy way, just hard work... I'll be shocked if Jungmann starts higher than WI, as is I'm not sure his total package is good enough to dominate Midwest league hitters at this time. He looks to be a decent athlete, so hopefully he has the capacity to adjust and refine rather quickly. He seemed to have success when I watched him because he located the curve fairly well in the strike zone, but college hitters had no problem tracking the pitch when they were looking for it. If he's going to continue to feature that curve, it needs to be tightened up significantly or located out of the zone because it's going to get crushed as he moves up as is.

 

Pitching and pitching mechanics have been a hobby of mine over the last 6-7 years on this site. Anyone can find a plethora of information with just a simple google search. There's probably as much bad information out there as there is good, but I would encourage people to read as much as possible and form their own opinions. For example, I don't think there's much value in discussing worthless metrics like PAP that are based on a flawed premise from the start. There's much more that goes into fatigue than 100 pitches, how you get to 100 pitches is just as important, and there's no proof that 100 pitches is the threshold all MLB starting pitchers should be held to. It's just a nice round number... I would recommend people focus more on the mechanics and pitch f/x, the velocity differentials and movement. There's not a single consensus on what's good form mechanically, Lincecum is a poster boy for that kind of discussion, but there are some common themes that lead to problems like the inverted W and such.

 

To sum up, Jungmann's top heavy motion with little leg drive just looks awkward... he's made it work, but I'm certain it's affecting his control and sapping his velocity, nor does he have a secondary pitch that's above average MLB wise. He has all the tools, but he also has some serious work to do to be an above average MLB starter.

[Never Outhustled]

I agree that the short stride is troublesome, but that is also an easy fix, a rare mechanical adjustment that won't put him at risk of injury. I disagree about his comand. It wasn't good when he pitched his 2 worst games of the year at the end of the season, but it was pinpoint the rest of the year. It what made him absolutely dominant and incredibly efficient.

 

I think the Brewers will tweak his stride, but do little else. He'll be well ahead of Jed Bradley, but I don't expect the Brewers to move Jungman at a haphazard pace, as that's just not their method of operation.

[filthyfrog]

I also don't like the short stride, which makes it look like his delivery is all arm. But there is some merit to the delivery. The longer your stride, the lower your release point. The lower your release point, the less downward movement you have. There are pitchers out there who stride short, stay tall, and let the ball sink as it gets to the plate. Kameron Loe and Shaun Marcum are obvious examples. When you're 6' 6" like Jungmann, being tall and staying tall isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

The delivery concerns are valid, but after the Mark Rogers disaster, I kind of think we should let Taylor be Taylor and hope that what's made him so successful up to this point continues to work.

[joshua502000]

In no way am I an expert on things pitching but I was curious as to how much he was used last year...it seemed to me that he was dominate during the regular part of the season and started losing it during the tourney...It seemed to me that Texas was riding him and pitching him deep into games so wonder how much of his troubles were do to being tired at the end of the season...So I am not as concerned as to how he will preform in the minors for us once he gets rest during this offseason...if I am way off base on this please someone correct me.