Swagger of this team, almost epic "Cool Hand Luke"

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

While RRR drives me absolutely crazy, I have to admit that just watching the Brewers reaction to T-Plush today was priceless. While we were pressing and couldn't win on the road earlier in the year, we now have the expectation that we're going to win everyday (granted is doesn't hurt when 4/5 of your rotation has a sub 4.00 ERA). Much of this credit (IMHO) goes to RRR for having his team focused and loose.

 

I think we'll win the division, fend off Atlanta in the divisional round, and will be in an Epic David/Golliath matchup with the Phillies that few people will likely expect us to win, but that should keep us loose. What worries me, is if we send ourselves into the WS, the pressure will be back on as it could be Prince's last series as a Brewer.

 

In that scenario, what better way to celebrate a Brewers NL Pennant, than with resigning Fielder, Greinke, and Marcum to extensions at the onset of the World Series. Win NOW, and then keep winning (we really are setup well for the next 3-4 years if we can keep both of those teams in the fold). I'm wondering if Mark A would be willing to take a financial loss for 2-3 years to help the Brewers reach the pinnacle of the sport. With Fielder/Greinke/Marcum/Braun/Gallardo together for the next 4 years, I feel pretty confident that we would reach (and maybe win) atleast 1 world series. I don't see Mark A investing $250 million and putting himself in a position to have an Alex Rios bad type of contract, but let's say Greinke would sign on for a 3/51 deal, and Marcum would sign for 3/39. Any chance Prince would take a 4/100 deal because he enjoys playing here? (maybe we find a way to make it a longer/higher $ value, with a team/player option to opt out after 4)

 

One can dream, but as some were saying on "Brewers Extra Innings" today, the NYY market is HUGE, but the stadium atmosphere is bland. Their team is old, and you're in the pressure cooker on a daily basis. Win a ring in Milwaukee with your best buds, and you're a legend for life!

 

I've resigned myself to the fact that we can't resign Greinke, Marcum, AND Fielder, and be in the black financially as a franchise. However, to keep a 3-4 year window moving forward, with two HOF calibur hitters, and 1-2-3 of Greinke, Marcum, and Gallardo, one would think that the value of the franchise will continue to rise with a few division titles, and SOAR with a World Series. Is that a decent business scenario for Mark A to risk losing $10-15/per for a few years to get us that coveted WS?

 

EDIT: We'd face Atlanta in Round 1

[lcbj68c]

I don't think you'll see any extensions handed out in October. If they make the WS, but don't win it, then I think you might see the most serious play for Prince Fielder. If you win a WS, I think they'll "be content" and let Prince move on. Unless of course, he enjoys it so much with his friends Rickie and others that he takes a hometown discount. A failure to make the playoffs or a quick exit and I think he is gone with no chance to return.

[logan82]

Much of this credit (IMHO) goes to RRR for having his team focused and loose.

 

This is a very talented team and would be winning a lot whomever was the manager.

 

I don't see any point in resigning Fielder. He is likely to get much much more than he is worth. If Greinke and Marcum want to sign extensions at a decent rate, do it. Otherwise let the walk. Our long term success is dependent upon not overpaying for players. We can be just as good or better next year with Gamel at 1B, an upgrade at SS and a strengthening the bench.

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

While I am absolutely enjoying this Brewers team more than almost any I can remember (lifelong Brewer fan going on 32 in two weeks), as a cinephile I must object to the Cool Hand Luke reference. Favorite film of all time.

 

For the analogy to be accurate, we'd have to be eliminated by the Cardinals on the final day of the season. We don't want that to happen.

 

We want to be more like Brad Pitt at the end of Inglorious Bastards. Carving a T into Tony Larussa's scalp...

[JohnBriggs12]

logan3825: "I don't see any point in re-signing Fielder"

Other than that he's one of the best hitters in the game at the peak of his career, and part of the reason Miller Park is full game after game, I tend to agree.

Attanasio may ultimately get outbid, but he's not going to meekly drop out of the bidding after one offer either, especially the way this season is going, not in spite of it.

[Menace II Sobriety]

logan3825: "I don't see any point in re-signing Fielder"

 

Other than that he's one of the best hitters in the game at the peak of his career, and part of the reason Miller Park is full game after game, I tend to agree.

 

Attanasio may ultimately get outbid, but he's not going to meekly drop out of the bidding after one offer either, especially the way this season is going, not in spite of it.

I agree 100%. Every game the Brewers win the better chance they have to resign Fielder. That may or may not be the best move for management to make, but compared to his other suitors Orioles, Cubs, Nats, I would think the Brewers look pretty good at this time.

[brewmann04]

I am also thinking this offseason will be a big surprise as Prince will continue to be a Brewer.

[FVBrewerFan]

Just win the WS this year, and Prince can go wherever he wants. Also, just a little edit for the OP. They most likely won't be playing AZ/SF, they'll be playing the Braves.

[logan82]

Other than that he's one of the best hitters in the game at the peak of his career, and part of the reason Miller Park is full game after game, I tend to agree.

 

Miller Park is full because we are winning games. Fielder will be overpaid and not signing him frees up money to improve the team so there is a good chance we are better off without Fielder at market value. Money isn't unlimited for the Brewers.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

I think we'll win the division, fend off AZ/SF in the divisional round, and will be in an Epic David/Golliath matchup with the Phillies that few people will likely expect us to win, but that should keep us loose. What worries me, is if we send ourselves into the WS, the pressure will be back on as it could be Prince's last series as a Brewer.

Am I missing something here? Since the Phils can't play the Braves in the first round due to them being in the same division, wouldn't we play the Braves? (assuming of course we have a better record than the West division winner?)

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

I was trying to think of a similar situation, ELITE player on up and coming team in a small market. Best comparison i could think if was Manny before he left Cleveland. I think it boils down to this (since both NYY and BOS are set at 1B/DH):

 

Say 4/110 ($25 per with a $10M buyout after year 4), the contract might be written differently but for all intents and purposes it would be 5/110 to stay with the Brewers

-OR-

7/154 with deep pocketed crappy team (Chicago, Baltimore/Washington).

 

The highest dollar value (total contract) will be outside of Milwaukee. The Brewers however have a chance to be the highest (per year). I don't think anyone disputes Prince's value to the team NOW, but beyond 3-4 years from now, it gets Murky.

 

If Prince signs a 4 year deal (i know that is a BIG IF), he'd be here for the 28, 29, 30, and 31 year old seasons. If he's still mashing .280/.400/.550/.950 in that year 31 season, he'll be able to get another BIG contract. If he's not, he should still be able to get something to the effect of 3/36 or so, worst case. So 4/110 + 3/36 would largely be a wash for him.

 

The positive: 1) he might be able to be the highest paid player in the game for a few years 2) he'd be contending for a WS each of the next 3-4 years (provided we keep pitching), 3) he gets to play in front of large crowds and be "the man" if/when we win a World Series

 

I think the biggest key in doing a shorter/higher per year contract would be the deferred money (like Braun). I could see the Brewers doing 4/80, with 20M deferred, and the 10M buyout in year 5.

 

I agree with the post above that every game we win, the odds of resigning Prince (and Greinke/Marcum) go UP. If we win 95 games, and get within a game (or better) of the World Series, i think our odds of resigning Prince increase to 50/50

[brwrsfan]

At this point, we'd play the Braves yes (who we're now tied with by the way). Still a long, long way to go. A lot can happen when your magic number is still in the upper thirties.

[danzig6767]

Much of this credit (IMHO) goes to RRR for having his team focused and loose.

 

This is a very talented team and would be winning a lot whomever was the manager.

 

I don't see any point in resigning Fielder. He is likely to get much much more than he is worth. If Greinke and Marcum want to sign extensions at a decent rate, do it. Otherwise let the walk. Our long term success is dependent upon not overpaying for players. We can be just as good or better next year with Gamel at 1B, an upgrade at SS and a strengthening the bench.

I've long ago accepted that keeping Fielder beyond this season just wasn't going to happened simply because we can't afford to pay Prince both in dollars per season and contract length that someone else will give him.

 

That said, i think you're making to big of assumptions about how easily Prince can be replaced. A huge bat in a lineup like Fielder is will be sorely missed unless Gamel is really productive next year and that's far from a given. I like Gamel and have reasonably high hopes for him as an everyday player in the bigs, but just as i could easily see him post an OPS in the .850-.875 range, i could just as easily see him only put up something in the .750 range.

 

Of course Gamel likely would be an upgrade defensively, but the offense could take a significant hit if Gamel doesn't hit as well next year as we hope for. We aren't talking about just losing a high quality hitter in Prince, we are talking about losing arguably one of the top 5 best best hitters in the game.

 

The play of the Brewers since the All-Star break though compared to last season has shown clearly how incredibly important it is to have quality pitching and so long as Melvin can replace adequately guys like K-Rod, Saito, and Hawkins in the bullpen, the pitching staff should be good again next year. It's gonna suck though for me to not have that Braun/Fielder duo in there every game in the middle of the order. They've been one of the best 3-4 combos in all of baseball for a few years now and probably the best in Brewers history. We may never see a pair of hitters like that again on a Brewers team.

 

As for resigning Greinke and Marcum, i see very little chance that both could be extended at some point. I love watching Marcum pitch and maybe he can manage to both stay healthy and effective for another 3-4 years, but i'd rather let someone else take that risk than the Brewers unless he accepted a pretty team friendly deal, which is unlikely given he hasn't struck it rich yet in his career.

[Team Canada]

To go back to the first part of the OP, this is starting to feel a little like the 04 Red Sox. Instead of Millar and "Cowboy Up" we have Morgan and Plushdamentals.

[Ennder]

I ate 50 hard boiled eggs the other day and then my wife cleaned our car with her 'better parts'. So I get the idea!

[HiAndTight]

Much of this credit (IMHO) goes to RRR for having his team focused and loose.

This is a very talented team and would be winning a lot whomever was the manager.

 

I don't see any point in resigning Fielder. He is likely to get much much more than he is worth. If Greinke and Marcum want to sign extensions at a decent rate, do it. Otherwise let the walk. Our long term success is dependent upon not overpaying for players. We can be just as good or better next year with Gamel at 1B, an upgrade at SS and a strengthening the bench.

I don't see how you can say that as a matter of absolute fact.

 

 

I think RR, for all his many faults, does get major points for being a "players manager." That was the book on him coming in, and the Brewers have strongly reinforced this as the year has gone on.

[HiAndTight]

logan3825: "I don't see any point in re-signing Fielder"

 

Other than that he's one of the best hitters in the game at the peak of his career, and part of the reason Miller Park is full game after game, I tend to agree.

 

Attanasio may ultimately get outbid, but he's not going to meekly drop out of the bidding after one offer either, especially the way this season is going, not in spite of it.

I agree 100%. Every game the Brewers win the better chance they have to resign Fielder. That may or may not be the best move for management to make, but compared to his other suitors Orioles, Cubs, Nats, I would think the Brewers look pretty good at this time.

I've said for years I believe our payroll will go over 100 million by '12'/'13 and that we will re-sign Prince.

 

I haven't said I think either is wise, just that Attanasio has given every indication he will do so, or at least work very hard to do so. I genuinely believe 6 years 140-150 will be the Brewers offer.

Then dump Wolf, re-sign Greinke, bring up Peralta and look for another big year nextr year.

[logan82]

Much of this credit (IMHO) goes to RRR for having his team focused and loose.

This is a very talented team and would be winning a lot whomever was the manager.

I don't see how you can say that as a matter of absolute fact.

 

 

I think RR, for all his many faults, does get major points for being a "players manager." That was the book on him coming in, and the Brewers have strongly reinforced this as the year has gone on.

He may or may not be a good player's manager. This is a good team. They have never had much adversity and it is very easy to get along when things are that easy.

 

in Prince, we are talking about losing arguably one of the top 5 best best hitters in the game.

Sure we are but we have really bad hitters at SS and 3B this year so the offense can be made up somewhat there. Gamel doesn't even have to hit anywhere near as well as Fielder. Like you said the defense should improve as well.

[liveforoctober]

Much of this credit (IMHO) goes to RRR for having his team focused and loose.

This is a very talented team and would be winning a lot whomever was the manager.

I don't see how you can say that as a matter of absolute fact.

 

 

I think RR, for all his many faults, does get major points for being a "players manager." That was the book on him coming in, and the Brewers have strongly reinforced this as the year has gone on.

He may or may not be a good player's manager. This is a good team. They have never had much adversity and it is very easy to get along when things are that easy.

 

in Prince, we are talking about losing arguably one of the top 5 best best hitters in the game.

Sure we are but we have really bad hitters at SS and 3B this year so the offense can be made up somewhat there. Gamel doesn't even have to hit anywhere near as well as Fielder. Like you said the defense should improve as well.

His full season has been a different story ... but during these last 3-4 weeks when the Brewers have gone unconscious ... Yuni has been a top 3 (the best?) hitter on this team and has won his fair share of games for us. Just sayin'...

[Patrick425]

logan3825[/b]]Much of this credit (IMHO) goes to RRR for having his team focused and loose.

 

This is a very talented team and would be winning a lot whomever was the manager.

 

I disagree. There have been plenty of talented teams in the history of MLB that did not live up to their potential. My belief is that a lot of that rests on the manager setting the right tone in the club house. Basically, to me, that is the most important job of a MLB manager. Managing all the egos and personalities of 25 professional ball players and fostering an atmposphere that breeds success. While RRR may not be doing anything actively to create this atmosphere he is not doing anything to impede it. To me it was clear that the player did not really think a lot of Macha and I don't know that they would be sharing the same success under his leadership this year.

[rluzinski]

I feel like the Brewers have been a very carefree, confident group since at least 2008. As we all know, they've even gotten a bit of a reputation for it. The biggest difference this year is that they have the most talent they've had since perhaps the World Series year. They have certainly made the most of it recently but I give the players 99% of the credit for that.

[Ennder]

They played like a bunch of dead guys for most of last season, the personality of the club has certainly changed. I don't know if that is because Macha was such a tool or just because the team is winning.

[jjfanec]

I feel like the Brewers have been a very carefree, confident group since at least 2008. As we all know, they've even gotten a bit of a reputation for it. The biggest difference this year is that they have the most talent they've had since perhaps the World Series year. They have certainly made the most of it recently but I give the players 99% of the credit for that.

Nothing about last years team looked carefree. They looked lifeless.

[greeg35]

Well, lifeless or not, giving up approximately 200 less runs YTD this year vs last year has helped us win games (since runs scored are lower/equal to last year--despite Prince and Braun having MUCH better years). Winning will make everyone happier and more carefree (and help avoid lifelessness). This really boils down to better pitching (since we know its not our defense), i.e. Greinke and Marcum (I look at KRod as the cure for RR's bullpen mismanagement issues).

I would never defend Macha's personality or clubhouse management because it sucked, and RR clearly has that over Macha (and many other managers); but I do think Macha would have had a better shot at success given this year's roster compared to last year's.

[FVBrewerFan]

Impossible to know the difference in wins, but yes, Macha, Sveum, WHOA SOLVD, or anyone would have won significantly more games this year with Greinke/Marcum vs Bush, Parra, Davis. There are other positives and negatives comparing this season's roster to last, but that's 90% of it right there. With that said, I will give RR credit, because I can't help but give credit to the manager when the team is performing at this high of a level.