Narveson Cuts Pitching Hand -- Latest: status for Monday, August 22 up in the air; Wily Peralta may start (reply #107)

[JohnBriggs12]

De La Cruz has put up solid numbers in AAA. He had a string of 3 real strong starts prior to Sunday in the hitter haven that is Reno.

 

I think he'll do okay.

[And That]

Apparently on WTMJ this morning, Doug Melvin said that they're going to go with Estrada in the rotation. Doesn't make much sense to me, but not that big of a deal either.

[patrickgpe]

yeah his last couple of outings have been bad, he hasn't been able to finish the inning, and he isn't stretched out. I don't think its a huge deal to let him start against Pittsburgh though on Saturday.

[Dragonbait]

Have they Announced they are moving up Greinke (sp) to Friday, the website still have TBD for friday and Zack going Sat.

 

Really would like to know whom I'm seeing Friday.

[davemakovec]

I'll say that I don't think this move is inconsistent with Melvin's previous MO. He seems to have a couple of these type of moves every year. He has a short DL stint to cover, possibly needing roster flexibility, and he brings up an older not much of a prospect guy. Presumably someone he'd be OK with losing on waivers if it comes to that.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the waivers issue a long-term deal? As in, if you call up Peralta, you're burning one option, which stays burned when you send him down, and you don't expose him to waivers. Only after all his options have been used is he exposed to waivers. Is that correct?

 

Sometimes we play too conservative with the worry about waivers and options. Call up the best guy who's available to start on Friday. If that's FDLC, fine. If it's Peralta, it should be him.

[1992casey]

Players aren't exposed to waivers when optioned unless they have three years of big league experience. Unlike outrights, waivers for the purpose of optioning are revocable, so there's no risk involved.

[BillScottCanRake]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the waivers issue a long-term deal? As in, if you call up Peralta, you're burning one option, which stays burned when you send him down, and you don't expose him to waivers. Only after all his options have been used is he exposed to waivers. Is that correct?

 

Peralta was added to the 40-man roster in November 2010. When he didn't make the 25-man roster this spring, he was optioned to Huntsville, which used his first option year. Therefore, he could be called-up and sent-down as often as the Brewers want this year with worrying about using an option or waivers.

[hawing]

Have they Announced they are moving up Greinke (sp) to Friday, the website still have TBD for friday and Zack going Sat.

 

Really would like to know whom I'm seeing Friday.

JSOnline says Greinke Friday, Estrada Saturday. FOX was probably already regretting picking up Saturday's game anyway...prove me wrong, Marco!

[brwrsfan]

I don't get Estrada starting.

 

Why call up a starter in de la Cruz just to rot away in the pen? Why not get another bullpen guy then?

 

Estrada hasn't been stretched out in a couple of months, I highly doubt he can go more than 50-60 pitches, which puts a giant strain on the entire bullpen. He'll be lucky to get through 4 innings, the maybe Dillard can go an inning or two. My thought is that you give de la Cruz a shot? If he bombs you lose the game obviously, but maybe you can save the pen. Give the kid a shot with ONE start at least. Having him rot away in the Dillard role doesn't really help anyone.

[Invader3K]

Yeah, I agree. I assume the thought is that if Estrada struggles early, Frankie can come in and be the long reliever. I think they could have easily reversed it, though. It seems like the Brewers are taking a hard line on their "don't throw minor leaguers to the wolves during a pennant race," mentality. My guess is that de la Cruz will see very limited usage before getting sent back down to the minors when Narveson returns.

[logan82]

It seems like the Brewers are taking a hard line on their "don't throw minor leaguers to the wolves during a pennant race," mentality.

 

That would explain A LOT. No Gamel, no Green, refusal to start a minor leaguer who is stretched out instead of a mediocre reliever who isn't. So many bad fringe decisions this year they are adding up.

[jjfanec]

It seems like the Brewers are taking a hard line on their "don't throw minor leaguers to the wolves during a pennant race," mentality.

 

That would explain A LOT. No Gamel, no Green, refusal to start a minor leaguer who is stretched out instead of a mediocre reliever who isn't. So many bad fringe decisions this year they are adding up.

Yep they are adding up to a 5 game lead in the division and being 17 games over .500 http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif But you are right there have been confusing moves throughout the year

[logan82]

It seems like the Brewers are taking a hard line on their "don't throw minor leaguers to the wolves during a pennant race," mentality.

 

That would explain A LOT. No Gamel, no Green, refusal to start a minor leaguer who is stretched out instead of a mediocre reliever who isn't. So many bad fringe decisions this year they are adding up.

Yep they are adding up to a 5 game lead in the division and being 17 games over .500 http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif But you are right there have been confusing moves throughout the year

We should be more than 5 games up at this point.

[mtrebs]

Have they Announced they are moving up Greinke (sp) to Friday, the website still have TBD for friday and Zack going Sat.

 

Really would like to know whom I'm seeing Friday.

JSOnline says Greinke Friday, Estrada Saturday. FOX was probably already regretting picking up Saturday's game anyway...prove me wrong, Marco!

Uggh...the baseball gods are preventing me from seeing Greinke pitch in person at Miller Park. I was joking about this with a buddy of mine that when Narveson hurt himself they'll probably move Greinke up a day and start Estrada on Saturday...all because we are going to Saturday's game. What a disappointment, especially for a nationally televised game. I'd rather see Rafael Roque pitch this Saturday than Estrada...

[fondybrewfan]

Nothing is ever good enough is it? RR & Melvin have put together a team that has the 5th best record in baseball behind NYY, BOS, PHI, and ATL and we are still complaining about minor leaguers who may or may not be good major leaguers not getting called up?

 

You really think if we would be starting Green at 3rd since June and somehow find a place to play Gamel that that would result in a 5 win improvement? I like De La Cruz but he is maybe marginally better than Estrada at this point. RR thinks Estrada can go 4 or 5 innings, our bullpen got a break yesterday; Gallardo will probably be good for 6-7 tonight; our bullpen should be find for tomorrow especially with De La Cruz in the bullpen. I thought it made sense to start De La Cruz; but a good argument can be made for Estrada as well.

[logan82]

RR & Melvin have put together a team that has the 5th best record in baseball behind NYY, BOS, PHI, and ATL and we are still complaining about minor leaguers who may or may not be good major leaguers not getting called up?

 

Melvin put together a pretty good team which has won games in spite of the manager. The really big mistakes Melvin has made are leaving the manager his favorite toy(Kotsay) and a steaming pile of shortstops.

 

You really think if we would be starting Green at 3rd since June and somehow find a place to play Gamel that that would result in a 5 win improvement?

 

Who said a 5 game improvement?

[TerraceReserved]

Nothing is ever good enough is it? RR & Melvin have put together a team that has the 5th best record in baseball behind NYY, BOS, PHI, and ATL and we are still complaining about minor leaguers who may or may not be good major leaguers not getting called up?

 

You really think if we would be starting Green at 3rd since June and somehow find a place to play Gamel that that would result in a 5 win improvement? I like De La Cruz but he is maybe marginally better than Estrada at this point. RR thinks Estrada can go 4 or 5 innings, our bullpen got a break yesterday; Gallardo will probably be good for 6-7 tonight; our bullpen should be find for tomorrow especially with De La Cruz in the bullpen. I thought it made sense to start De La Cruz; but a good argument can be made for Estrada as well.

I guess I don't quite understand the view that since we are doing very well, we shouldn't be bothered by poor decisions. We have a 5 game lead on the Cards...but it COULD be better with more efficient bullpen and roster management. Believing that doesn't make us greedy and grumpy fans, it just means we wish more logical decisions were made. The marginally better, stretched out Cruz will most likely give us a better chance to win than the non-stretched out Estrada. No matter how small that improvement is, he should start for that reason.

[monty57]

Nothing is ever good enough is it? RR & Melvin have put together a team that has the 5th best record in baseball behind NYY, BOS, PHI, and ATL and we are still complaining about minor leaguers who may or may not be good major leaguers not getting called up?

 

You really think if we would be starting Green at 3rd since June and somehow find a place to play Gamel that that would result in a 5 win improvement? I like De La Cruz but he is maybe marginally better than Estrada at this point. RR thinks Estrada can go 4 or 5 innings, our bullpen got a break yesterday; Gallardo will probably be good for 6-7 tonight; our bullpen should be find for tomorrow especially with De La Cruz in the bullpen. I thought it made sense to start De La Cruz; but a good argument can be made for Estrada as well.

I never liked them putting Estrada in the 'pen after his decent start to the season, as he was our best choice as a "#6 starter." Now that he's been in the 'pen for months, I'd go with de la Cruz because he's stretched out and having a decent season.

 

As for Green, I think he certainly would have helped the team, even if it were only as PT 3B and "Counsell replacement." I don't know about five wins, but he would probably have helped.

 

 

[JohnBriggs12]

Nothing is ever good enough is it? RR & Melvin have put together a team that has the 5th best record in baseball behind NYY, BOS, PHI, and ATL and we are still complaining about minor leaguers who may or may not be good major leaguers not getting called up?

 

You really think if we would be starting Green at 3rd since June and somehow find a place to play Gamel that that would result in a 5 win improvement? I like De La Cruz but he is maybe marginally better than Estrada at this point. RR thinks Estrada can go 4 or 5 innings, our bullpen got a break yesterday; Gallardo will probably be good for 6-7 tonight; our bullpen should be find for tomorrow especially with De La Cruz in the bullpen. I thought it made sense to start De La Cruz; but a good argument can be made for Estrada as well.

Estrada can go 4 or 5 tops. De la Cruz can go 8 and has recently. I just don't understand the thinking. It's not like Estrada is so much more established as a major leaguer or that De la Cruz is a 20 year old kid up from single A.

 

brwrsfan hit the nail on the head. April was 4 months ago. Not only has Estrada not started in 3 1/2 months and hasn't exceeded 2 innings since, he's barely pitched at all recently, and on the few occasions in the last few months he did pitch in anything other than mop up duty, he failed. They used up a 40 man spot to bring up de la Cruz. If they just wanted an arm to fill some innings, they could have brought up Rivas who was already on the roster, or either McClendon or Herrara.

 

The point is if you specifically wanted de la Cruz, it should be as a starter. Starting Estrada is inconsistent with the decision to bring up de la Cruz.

[brwrsfan]

I just can't understand the logic. You don't want to start a rookie, I just don't get it. Then why call up a starter at all? At least give hime ONE start to see what happens. Maybe he goes 6-7 innings and saves the pen. Estrada has NOT been good lately, nor can he pitch more than probably 50 pitches. If the plan is to bring in de la Cruz anyway, why not let him start and see what happens? Maybe Estrada could be spared from pitching at all.

 

If you just wanted a long relief guy, bring McClendon or somebody like that back up to fill the void. Having de la Cruz in the Tim Dillard "mop up" role is not beneficial for anybody at this point.

[yoshii8]

What were peoples overall impression of De La Cruz last night? I wasn't able to see him pitch, but saw he had a scoreless inning.

[Baldkin]

Filthy stuff. If he had control he could be great.

[hawing]

I agree that it's weird to call up a starter and then start the guy who was last stretched out in like April.

But since the chances of a "substitute for Narvdog" start becoming a Wholestaff night are probably pretty good anyway, maybe it won't matter in the end whether the starting tandem is Markie Estracruz or Franco De La Da.

[TooLiveBrew]

FDLC's fastball seemed pretty straight, but aside from that I liked what I saw.

[jmeks23]

They're trying to protect their "only 6 starters" BS. My guess is De La Cruz warms up as if he was starting in about the 3rd inning and comes in after the 3rd or 4th. I highly doubt Marco can go more than three with a 50-60 pitch count, he just hasn't been effective at all lately. We'll see, but I highly doubt with De La Cruz they blow the bullpen out. It will be Estrada then De La Cruz, then Dillard if needed. If it's a close game you probably see the regulars in the 7th, 8th, 9th.