Brewers' 2nd wave of prospects

[NYChez]

The decade of the 2000's featured the introduction of several MLB starters and stars coming up through the Brewer organization, including Prince Fielder, Rickie Weeks, JJ Hardy, Ryan Braun, Corey Hart, and Bill Hall. The Brewers have won and are continuing to win with most of these guys as the core group.

The 2010's will likely feature the following in significant MLB roles: C: Lucroy, 1B: Gamel, 2B: Lawrie, 3B: Green, SS: Escobar, OF: Gindl, OF: Schafer, OF: Cain. Throw in Brantley and LaPorta, too.

Of course a few of these guys were dealt as centerpieces of blockbuster trades, but could this have been an everyday lineup that you could win with, in say, 2014? I say there is a little less quality but it may be made up for with more quantity with this second wave of prospects.

[brwrsfan]

I guess for me, my question is...who do we legitimately have left as our next set of guys? Looking at the minors now, there doesn't appear to be too many of those types. Maybe Gamel or Green, but it seems void of that star player.

[YoungGeezy]

One thing to remember was we were able to land that first wave with some top 10 picks (Prince, Weeks, Braun). To me the other key is that Brewers the last few years have really got away from drafting young talent while focusing on mostly college players. If you look at what really helped increase the talent level of our system it was a lot of the HS and international signings.

 

Prince, Hart, Hardy, Bill Hall, Gallardo were all hits but the other guys you were in that wave Brad Nelson, Parra(HS DFC), Eveland (HS DFC), Krynzel, Mike Jones, Iribarren, and Ben Hendrickson all were guys that came up and looked like really good prospects. Hendrickson/Eveland became dreaded AAAA type guys, Nelson's injuries held him back then just never got there, Parra has it but injuries and loss of confidence have set him back, Jones was a trendenous prospect with #1/#2 stuff but his arm just couldnt get healthy, All these were high school draftees that really built up our system (even if they didn't work out) and made up that first wave.

 

That second wave had Lawrie, Gindl, Salome, Jeffress, Rogers, Brantley, Cain (HS DFC), Escobar, Braddock (HS DFC).

 

Sure the hit on a #2, #5, and #7 pick in the draft with Weeks, Braun, LaPorta. Landed a good college catcher and CF in Lucroy and Schafer. JUCO picks Gamel & Green. But when you really look at it most of there high ceiling, big prospects have been High Picks or international kids. With such college heavy drafts the last few years (09'-10') we have started to fill system with older, higher floor little lower ceiling guys. Still like Richardson, the Davis's, Heckathorn, Morris, Thornburg, and etc but really happy with how they really reenergized system with the new DSL talent and even though they're struggling, all the young guys down in Arizona....can't forget about Walla, Roberts, Rivera, and Garfield as well

 

I think we will have a strong fourth wave in the coming years, the third wave highlighted by Peralta, Scarpetta, Thornburg, Gennett, Richardson, Bucci, Davis & Davis, Morris has some good potential as well

[DHonks]

I think we really need to stop drafting college pitchers in the first round and instead focus on drafting hitters. As we saw with Lawrie and Laporta, they can be dealt to give you pitching.

[narwhalattack]

I hope the Brewers start going after young talent rather than just focusing on college pitchers simply for their polish. They took the right step by drafting Lopez, Reed, and Rodon.

 

I do see the reason on focusing on college players(to stabilize a mostly abysmal farm system by drafting polished players), but at some point they should take some risk on high school players in the early rounds to add some great upside to the system.

[greeg35]

I would not be in favor of focusing more on hitters. If anything I'd lean pitcher because of scarcity; but ideally we would have more balanced drafts than we've been having. Seems to be a lot of hole patching going on. Talent can be traded for other talent if needed regardless of position.

[LouisEly]

If you look at what really helped increase the talent level of our system it was a lot of the HS and international signings.

 

Yes, there were some talented HS players picked (outside of the top 10) in Gallardo, Hardy, Lawrie, and Odorizzi. But there were some HS busts too in Brewer and Josh Murray, and while Walla and Lintz (since his promotion to Wisconsin) have shown signs of life this year an argument can be made that they are nowhere near prospect status yet (and have little to no trade value), and the same could pretty much be said about Garfield. If Covey was signed before being diagnosed he quite possibly could have been a bust. If Jeffress never moves out of the bullpen, or doesn't become a bona-fide closer, you could say he will be somewhat disappointing too, and Krynzel was disappointing. While Rogers, Jones, and even Neugebauer have/had great stuff, they just couldn't get over the injuries to be productive major leaguers. (If you want to go back to Neugebauer, you can add Alvin Morrow to the list of HS busts.)

 

Here's a fun quiz for you, who has more innings pitched at the major league level - Kyle Peterson, or Jeffress/Rogers/Mike Jones/JM Gold combined? Here's another fun quiz - what is the difference between Kyle Peterson's career ERA and Jeffress' ERA out of the bullpen this year? (Jeffress was hardly the key to the Grienke trade; while he can throw hard his value is greatly diminished because of his off-the-field history.) Yes, Peterson had a lower ceiling, but here's another example - who would you rather have, Ben Sheets or any of Jeffress/Rogers/Jones/Gold? Probably the best pitcher the Brewers ever drafted was a college player.

 

Point being, there's risk in taking high school players too, and there are talented college players. And I will grant you that the Brewers definitely should have drafted Bumgarner instead of LaPorta. (Anyone else notice that the difference in OPS this year between LaPorta and Heyward is .006?) But Dan Haren was a late 2nd round pick - would you pass on him just because he's a college player?

[reillymcshane]

I was just thinking about the Brewer talent at the positions. It is sorely lacking in star power.

 

As noted, the stars of the Brewers are Braun, Weeks and Prince. Second tier of hitters includes Hart, Lucroy, McGehee. I don't see anyone in the system that can land in that upper tier. Lawrie had a chance. Gamel? I don't see him reaching the All-Star level like Prince and Weeks. Green's having a great year, but is not seen as an elite hitter. I think he could be a solid hitter - a good complementary piece, but not a star. Most of the other minor league guys, such as Gindl Schafer, profile as fringe types - backups, platoon or perhaps average starters. No matter, we don't have the stud hitters like we had in the early 2000s.

 

I think adding some hitters will be a priority in the next couple of drafts. I think we can overcome losing Prince next year. I think some of the hitters (Gamel, Green, Gindl, Shafer) can come up over the next year or two and contribute. We don't need them to be stars, but one or two need to develop into decent starters.

[igor67]

If you have Braun, Weeks, and use that depth of middle tier prospects to not have holes in the rest of the line-up and maybe even some defense we do have plenty of pitching to keep a run going. Essentially you have a version of the mid 2000's Twins with better starting pitchers.

[nate82]

If you look at what really helped increase the talent level of our system it was a lot of the HS and international signings.

 

 

Manny Parra was a high school draft pick. If you are talking about potential which is completely different than talent, then yes the Brewers did do that earlier. The Brewers do not need to be drafting just high school players they need to go back to just drafting the best player available regardless of if they are a high school player or a college player. CJ Cron would be the Brewers best power hitter right now if they would have drafted him instead of who they drafted this year. Cron may have been the best player available at the time the Brewers were picking. But that maybe to early to tell right now but Cron is just killing the ball in rookie ball right now.

[YoungGeezy]

Not say to just pick high school. It needs to be best player available but in 2010 for example he brought only a very small amount high school players. I like this year where it was very balance. You'll find many more sleepers out of your HS kids. Your biggest physical & athletic growth come between 18-21. That is why so many undrafted hs kids or late round picks become by their junior year are top prospects or top 5 round talents. A scout could barely tell you who Jed Bradley was 4 years ago. In football JJ Watt wasnt big enough or arhletic enough to go play 4 Wisconsin. You know what your getting when you draft college, you have no clue when you draft high school.

 

Also unimpressed with Cron tearing up Rookie ball, if his recently drafted high school brother was then yeah impressive but there is zero reason for a college senior not to. Look what Nick Ramirez did there. I like Cron but I'll wait a bit before I give him to much credit.

[YoungGeezy]

Also potential and talent by my definition are not to different. To me they are much the same. Mark Rogers is an extremely talent/gifted pitcher who also as has a lot of potential. Parra when he is on is flithy, extremly talented pitcher who had potential to be a #2 pitcher. To me talent is a superior gift in an area and potential is what you can do with or how high that talent is able to go..... they are hand and hand.

[narwhalattack]

I also certainly like the 2011 draft rather than the 2010 draft with the balance of high school and college talent. Both Lopez and Reed bring upside to the system while Bradley and Jungmann, if signed, would bring polish. I hope they mange to sign Rodon as well.

 

On another note, I can't wait until the discussions about the 2012 draft begins.

[Mass Haas]

Manny Parra was a high school draft pick.

Junior college...

[YoungGeezy]

Manny Parra was a high school draft pick.

Junior college...

Yeah forgot he was draft and followed as a JUCO freshman not high school senior in an earlier post. Either way 19 year old pick with a lot of potential.