What happened to Yuniesky Betancourt?

[fondybrewfan]

So RR is just supposed to say Yuni sucks in public? I am sure he and the coaching staff along with Melvin have discussed Yuni and his recent slump. They probably figure that until Weeks can come back they don't have any other option than to hope Yuni can hit himself out of his slump. Wilson is obviously not the answer; neither is Counsell. So long as Weeks is out; Hairston isn't an option either. Obviously it remains to be seen what they will do at SS when Weeks comes back and if they even view Hairston as a legitimate option at SS. With Gomez set to resume is portion of the CF platoon and Rickie to his full time duty at 2B; the only place Hairston could ever play is 3rd or SS; so I am hoping he will get time at SS.

 

I don't know that RR has ever publicy criticized a player; that is just his thing. He isn't an idiot for talking up Yuni and his other players to the media. Fans have to be idiots to think the RR and Melvin don't know that he is struggling and they haven't explored other alternatives.

[topper09er]

Fine, if it is all to look good to the fans that is one thing, but if he follows through on this plan then he is, infact, an idiot for not understanding how much Betancourt hurts the team. I seriously doubt he will ignore these comments and put Hairston in there more often than Betancourt down the stretch with Rickie/Gomez back.

 

Right now against righties you could start Green, Counsell or Wilson at 2B and let Hairston start at SS, at least to see how his defense looks there.

[nate82]

RRR is dooming this great team

 

http://milwaukee.brewers....ey=notebook_mil&c_id=mil

 

"It seems like every day, he hits something really hard. Sometimes he's getting a hit, sometimes he's not."

 

Are you insane RR, what games are you watching?

 

"I wouldn't mind looking at [Hairston] there, but I don't think there's a reason to say, 'I want to see if he can play there instead of Yuni,'" Roenicke said.

 

He is an idiot, he doesn't understand anything about baseball and his only asset is that the players like him and are "having fun", as if they wouldn't be having fun if someone else was in charge of this roster that is playing .600 baseball.

Over react much?

Seriously calling a manager an idiot because he is not calling a player a loser in the media? What do you expect him to say. Did you expect him to put him under the bus? Hairston right now shouldn't be starting or playing part time at SS as he is needed in CF or do you want Kotsay in CF? How about we bring back Felipe Lopez to play 2B while Hairston is playing SS that would be a great idea right? Right now Hairston needs to be playing either 2B or CF. Having McGehee and Betancourt has not cost the team much so far this season yes the record maybe 2 or 4 games better but the outcome is still the same as it is now. Hairston needs to be playing at 2B and CF so RR is actually helping the team not hurting it like you are saying. It maybe you who really doesn't understand anything about baseball.

 

[topper09er]

Fans have to be idiots to think the RR and Melvin don't know that he is struggling and they haven't explored other alternatives.

Um what alternatives have they explored????

 

Games that Morgan has started in CF, Lopez/Counsell/Wilson at 2B, and Betancourt at SS with Hairston on the bench:

 

August 1

August 3

August 6

August 7

August 9

August 11

August 14

August 19

August 22 game 2

 

Games that Betancourt has not started at SS since Hairston was acquired = 0

[topper09er]

Over react much?

Seriously calling a manager an idiot because he is not calling a player a loser in the media? What do you expect him to say. Did you expect him to put him under the bus? Hairston right now shouldn't be starting or playing part time at SS as he is needed in CF or do you want Kotsay in CF? How about we bring back Felipe Lopez to play 2B while Hairston is playing SS that would be a great idea right? Right now Hairston needs to be playing either 2B or CF. Having McGehee and Betancourt has not cost the team much so far this season yes the record maybe 2 or 4 games better but the outcome is still the same as it is now. Hairston needs to be playing at 2B and CF so RR is actually helping the team not hurting it like you are saying. It maybe you who really doesn't understand anything about baseball.

 

I don't care what he says, I care what he does. He has not shown anything but Braun like faith in Betancourt this season and these comments suggest he plans on this mentality for the remainder of the season, seemingly no matter what Betancourt does. What did Lopez do in a week to get him kicked off the team that Betancourt hasn't done the entire season?

 

I dont care about the past, yes we have a huge lead but we are in a terrible division, at this point in the year in 2008 we would have been 4 games behind the Cubs. I care about Betancourt costing us games in the playoffs. When we are facing tough pitching in the playoffs do you think Betancourt is going to add anything on offense? Apparently RRR does, yet any sane person would expect a terrible performance. So then you turn to defense, where again any smart baseball person who can learn anything from watching a baseball game would know Betancourt is a huge liability, so he should not be starting. Even worse is that after going 0-3 he will still be playing SS in the 8th inning with a 1 run lead in the playoffs, which may cost us a game.

 

Right now Green, Counsell and Wilson should be playing 2B and Hairston should be at SS, I guess you could let Yuni play SS against a lefty.

[DougJones43]

I agree with topper. Unfortunately, there's nothing that would lead us to believe it's merely lip service from Roenicke. Him and Melvin seem to genuinely believe Betancourt is a good player, and ALL of their actions since day one of acquiring Yuni have supported that.

 

I'd be shocked if Yuni gets benched (even part time) in favor of Hairston when Weeks returns. That will be a real shame, because this team will enter the playoffs with a weaker lineup than they need to.

[fondybrewfan]

Fans have to be idiots to think the RR and Melvin don't know that he is struggling and they haven't explored other alternatives.

Um what alternatives have they explored????

 

Games that Morgan has started in CF, Lopez/Counsell/Wilson at 2B, and Betancourt at SS with Hairston on the bench:

 

http://www.baseball-refer...s/MIL/MIL201108010.shtml href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIL/MIL201108010.shtml" rel=nofollow target=_blank>August 1

http://www.baseball-refer...s/MIL/MIL201108030.shtml href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIL/MIL201108030.shtml" rel=nofollow target=_blank>August 3

http://www.baseball-refer...s/HOU/HOU201108060.shtml href="http:///" rel=nofollow target=_blank>August 6

http://www.baseball-refer...s/HOU/HOU201108070.shtml href="http:///" rel=nofollow target=_blank>August 7

http://www.baseball-refer...s/SLN/SLN201108090.shtml href="http:///" rel=nofollow target=_blank>August 9

http://www.baseball-refer...s/SLN/SLN201108110.shtml href="http:///" rel=nofollow target=_blank>August 11

http://www.baseball-refer...s/MIL/MIL201108140.shtml href="http:///" rel=nofollow target=_blank>August 14

http://www.baseball-refer...s/NYN/NYN201108190.shtml href="http:///" rel=nofollow target=_blank>August 19

http://www.baseball-refer...s/PIT/PIT201108222.shtml href="http:///" rel=nofollow target=_blank>August 22 game 2

 

Games that Betancourt has not started at SS since Hairston was acquired = 0

I was referring more to MILB and trade options but anyways

 

If I am remembering this correctly Yuni was still somewhat hot at the beginning of August so it wouldn't have made a lot of sense in terms of "riding the hot hand" to start Hairston at SS. And in the last 2 weeks since Yuni has started sucking, Hairston has already been playing virtually everyday between 2B and CF. He needs days off just like any 35 year old does. Besides its not like Hairston has been setting the world on fire since he got here and making RR find him a spot in the lineup. He has been serviceable and despite Yuni sucking for a while now his OPS for the month isn't all that much better than Yuni's.

 

Maybe Hairston could have started a couple of the games you mentioned; I just don't think it is much of indictment on RR that he decided not to do so.

 

EDIT: Looks like bad Yuni started around 8/15 or so; so Hairston could have been used maybe tgwice at SS since he has gotten here

[gregmag]

Okay, I buy the argument that RR is just backing up his player. But should he be? I really don't know. Maybe Yuni is a great guy and fierce competitor with laser-like focus who just happens to have one of the sorriest physical skill sets in recent MLB history. If that's the case, and if you have no one better, then yes, talking him up is the right thing to do. But is that premise really plausible? Look, I know nothing negative about Yuni's character or intellect. But he sure looks like a guy who could be doing better if he spent five minutes thinking about how to play baseball. If by any chance he is that guy, then I'm not sure the manager should be bending over backwards to stroke his ego in the press.

 

Anyway, I agree that's what RR is doing. I also agree that Hairston has been needed at 2b and cf more desperately than at ss -- barely. Now let's get to what's about to become the real question: Can anybody think of an earthly reason why Hairston shouldn't play over Betancourt as soon as Weeks and CarGo get back?

[FVBrewerFan]

Continuity. And that's a pretty weak reason.

[rluzinski]

I'm not going to worry about these kind of comments until Weeks is back and Hairston is available to play SS. RR isn't going to say something like, "We are not happy with Betancourt's production and as soon as Weeks is back, he's going to lose a lot of playing time."

 

That said, I don't have a lot of faith that this is going to end well. Look forward to one armed flails at balls in the dirt and slow rollers to the left of 2B being hits in the playoffs!

[a3uge]

I think there's a general assumption that JHJ has been lights out, which he really hasn't. Since JHJ appeared in Milwaukee:

 

Jerry's

265

.315

.338

.653

Yuni's

.239

.257

.385

.642

Yuni hasn't been good at all, but I don't find JHJ's numbers all that impressive either since coming over. He hasn't hit for power, and has recorded only 5 xbh. The discussion about RBIs in the Taylor Green thread had me trying to put together some stats that averaged the RBI out per plate appearance. I know, it's not all that fair to blast Jerry for producing 3 RBIs when 10 of 23 games he batted 7th behind Yuni and Casey. I can't do splits since joining the team either, since I don't have that data. But here it goes: His RBI per PA is 0.041 vs Yuni's 0.150 (Casey's is 0.194, Fielder is 0.225, Lucroy 0.133 for a couple comparisons). I know it's just a stat I just made up, but I think it's kind of cool. In a month you'll get around 100 PA, so Fielder's RBI average per PA this month is around 22.5 ... which if he had averaged each month would put him around 112 RBIs right now. So given around 100 at-bats in a month (73 in reality) given his projections, JHJ likely RBI count would be on average 4 (given more starts, obviously). I'm not going to hold much weight on this, since I just made it up, but the point is, JHJ hasn't been on-fire or an RBI machine. Yes, before I get pelted by insults, I realize the amount of RISP opportunities by Jerry is probably low. I liked Lucroy's as a contrast because he has likely seen similar RISP numbers. Since the 7-spot has been the 2B spot, a lot of doubles probably haven't been hit there anyways. In the 8-hole, Yuni or McGehee would likely the player in the scoring position, as opposed to the 7-spot, where Fielder or McGehee would be the RISP.

On the other hand, Yuni has been

.228

.254

.351

.605

with RISP all year. That's not very good, considering the stat can be misleading. When you have a runner at 3rd with 1 or 0 out, you should see a boost in this stat because you're likely trying to advance the runner with a fly ball. If it lands, you get a H, if not, you get a SF.

 

I think at this point, Yuni isn't getting replaced as long as Weeks is out of the line-up. It's sort of a toss-up at this point. Do you want a high OBP guy who draws walks, or a contact hitter with power in that part of the lineup? It really depends on how well he's doing come Week's return. As far as the article goes: I think RR has a point. He's had some line-drive outs, which is a good sign. He's also popped out a bunch and isn't taking the ball to opposite field. Bad sign. Defensively he's been pretty decent over his recent slump, minus a couple botched ground balls. He made a web gem on Friday that was a decent play, and he's turned some good double plays. On Saturday he made a great play and one-hopped a ball to Fielder, whom did a poor job of digging it out of the dirt. On McGehee's error he made a nice recovery to barehand and beat the runner, but Prince couldn't scoop it out of the dirt on that one either. I wouldn't really call these plays lazy, and I haven't seen him not run through 1st. I don't think you can tell by his swing that he isn't somehow putting effort in at the plate. He's pretty much always had the same looking swing, especially when he has that low-to-high swing that he's hit home runs on this year. I just think he's not that outstanding of a baseball player. He's pretty much at his career stats, and I can't see signs that he's under-performing of his capabilities due to laziness.

[istanbultaye]

The fact of the matter is, that with roughly equal OPS (and JHJ's has in fact been higher in the range you selected), OBP is the more important number. Especially if you consider that slugging is not the issue with the team, anything to shore up the On Base Percent in any spot in the lineup can only help.

[igor67]

I don't think anyone has thought Hairston has been on fire, but nearly .060 points of OBP advantage in this line-up is huge. His batting average also is a little higher than Yuni's as well, both point to him being able to drive in enough runs for the 6th or 7th spot, and increase the chances for other guys to bat. The biggest factor though in my mind has always been defense. Career numbers have the two players close in value with the bat, but Hairston's defense at SS has been consistently better by a healthy margin.

[dlk9s]

I don't think anyone has thought Hairston has been on fire, but nearly .060 points of OBP advantage in this line-up is huge. His batting average also is a little higher than Yuni's as well, both point to him being able to drive in enough runs for the 6th or 7th spot, and increase the chances for other guys to bat. The biggest factor though in my mind has always been defense. Career numbers have the two players close in value with the bat, but Hairston's defense at SS has been consistently better by a healthy margin.

This. I couldn't care less about Hairston's power. We don't need it. And it's not like he's weak - he can line balls into the outfield and hit the gaps just fine. He's not some amazing hitter or anything, but he's perfectly competent at the plate, which is more than we can say for Yuni.

[Baldkin]

I think at this point, Yuni isn't getting replaced as long as Weeks is out of the line-up. It's sort of a toss-up at this point. Do you want a high OBP guy who draws walks, or a contact hitter with power in that part of the lineup? It really depends on how well he's doing come Week's return. As far as the article goes: I think RR has a point. He's had some line-drive outs, which is a good sign. He's also popped out a bunch and isn't taking the ball to opposite field. Bad sign. Defensively he's been pretty decent over his recent slump, minus a couple botched ground balls. He made a web gem on Friday that was a decent play, and he's turned some good double plays. On Saturday he made a great play and one-hopped a ball to Fielder, whom did a poor job of digging it out of the dirt. On McGehee's error he made a nice recovery to barehand and beat the runner, but Prince couldn't scoop it out of the dirt on that one either. I wouldn't really call these plays lazy, and I haven't seen him not run through 1st. I don't think you can tell by his swing that he isn't somehow putting effort in at the plate. He's pretty much always had the same looking swing, especially when he has that low-to-high swing that he's hit home runs on this year. I just think he's not that outstanding of a baseball player. He's pretty much at his career stats, and I can't see signs that he's under-performing of his capabilities due to laziness.

Wow, now we're going to RBI's per PA, without even accounting for when or how the situation arose that the player came up to bat? You will have less RBIs hitting behind two horrible hitters and leading off innings than hitting behind Braun and Prince.

 

How about this: Hairston has 10 runs in 73 PA as a Brewer. That's 1 per every 7.3 PA. Yuni has 43 runs in 462 PA as a Brewer. One every 10.7 PA. So, over 600 PA, Hairston will score 82 runs, and Yuni will only score 56 runs. There, I made up a stat proving that Yuni is worse than Hairston.

Betancourt is lazy on defense. He's always been lazy on defense. Watch how he fields a ball compared to how Escobar does. He fields it off the side of his body, not getting in front of it, and not getting his momentum moving towards 1B before he throws. Watch him turn a double play sometime. He doesn't know where his feet should be, and he almost always takes an extra step that most other SS do not in order to get the throw off which leads to him being taken out and making one hop throws to 1B.

[monty57]

In response to the "he's needed in CF/2B," would we be better off right now if we had held on to Brett Carroll as the RH CF and dropped Wilson or Counsell? Then Hairston could be splitting time between 2B/SS instead of 2B/CF. Or he could just be the everyday 2B, keeping Counsell/Wilson out of the starting lineup.

 

Either way, I'm sure glad Gomez should be back in a couple of days, and I am interested in seeing what Roenicke will do with Hairston when both Gomez & Weeks are healthy.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I have forced myself to come to grips with the fact that, barring injury, YuniB is the ss for the rest of the season, however long that may be. I've gnashed my teeth, shaken my fists, and howled at the moon, and none of it makes me feel any better about the situation. I have resigned myself to the fact that this is what will be, and for better or worse, I'm done stressing myself with it.

 

I only hope (nay, pray) that 2012 opens with him in someone else's uniform. I can't take another season of watching this guy play ball. Can't.

[Invader3K]

I really think Betancourt could be the starting SS again next season. We don't have anyone in the minors knocking on the door, and the FA market is going to be thin (don't throw out Jose Reyes because it's not going to happen).

[rluzinski]

What Hairston has done in 73 PA with the Brewers is largely irrelevant to this discussion. If we want to guess how Hairston and Betancourt is going to perform going forward, we should look at least the last 2-3 years of production. That should be obvious, no?

 

ZiPS rest-of-season projections for both:

 

Hairston: .259/.328/.362

Betancourt: .261/.281/.402

 

Hairston projects to be a little better with the stick (rule of thumb that 1 point of OBP is worth around 1.8 points of SLG). The larger difference is probably defensively, where Hairston projects to be significantly better even if we assume he's a little below average at SS.

 

I guess I'm surprised that at this point, we can't all agree that while Betancourt has made some great plays at SS this year, he's also displayed consistently terrible range there.

[dlk9s]

I guess I'm surprised that at this point, we can't all agree that while Betancourt has made some great plays at SS this year, he's also displayed consistently terrible range there.

We don't all agree on this?

[DuWayne Steurer]

I guess I'm surprised that at this point, we can't all agree that while Betancourt has made some great plays at SS this year, he's also displayed consistently terrible range there.

We don't all agree on this?

The Cubs broadcast team said that he's 'always been known for having great range'.

 

And they were serious about that.

 

That aside, there are still posters that say 'he's not that bad'.

[endaround]

I really think Betancourt could be the starting SS again next season. We don't have anyone in the minors knocking on the door, and the FA market is going to be thin (don't throw out Jose Reyes because it's not going to happen).

No it isn't. Not when your baseline is Betancourt. You have Cedano, Furcal might give it another go, Barmes, Santiago, Scutaro. No one spectacular but everyone better than Betancourt.

[reillymcshane]

I hope and pray that Yuni is gone next year. He is a terrible player and there is no reason to think he'll get better.

Looking strictly at free agents, I'd target Cliff Barmes. He's a very good glove guy, takes some walks, but won't hit much. But I want a guy who will anchor the defense, make everyone better. He'll be 32 next year, so you could even go with a two year deal and expect him to hold up okay.

Scutero will be 36 and still produces, but he's had some injuries and I don't trust him to hold up - and he's at an age where you skills can get lost quickly. Ditto for Carroll. He will be 38 and a below average fielder. A one year deal as a back up might be fine, but I wouldn't trust him beyond that. Guys like Cabrera, Furcal, Jack Wilson and Renteria have major injury issues or have simply lost their skills. Ronny Cedeno isn't terrible, but the Pirates have a $3 million option on him. They very well might keep him for that.

The option is a trade. I like Brendan Ryan. I like Ruben Tejada from the Mets. If Reyes is resigned by the Mets, he's a guy you could target. I don't know what either guy would cost, but it's worth exploring. Tejada has virtually no power - so his upside is limited. But he's hit for a solid average (.282 this year) and boasts a very good walk rate (over 12% of his ABs). He's just shy of 22 years old, so he can improve. Plus, having him for several years is a plus.

In the end, Barmes is young enough to man the spot for a couple of years. He'd offer very good fielding, which this team really needs. He won't cost a draft pick either, or a player(s) like Ryan or Tejada. Or a ton of money (like Reyes or Jimmy Rollins - the two best shortstops heading for FA).

No matter what, NO Yuni. Please, baseball gods, grant me that.

[cwolf2012]

I wouldn't take Yuni back at league minimum.

[brwrsfan]

Can Hairston play SS full time? We haven't seen him there yet but could he handle it? Or handle it for 75% of the time with someone like Josh Wilson getting the other starts? Hairston is a guy that seems solid defensively, good enough bat. I don't know what it would take to resign him but I doubt it would be all that much.