What happened to Yuniesky Betancourt?

[Hart Of Milwaukee]

Everyone makes errors like that at some point. I'll give you that it was a bonehead play, but it was kind of an awkward play with the ball and the runner coming at the same time right near the bag. I can't think of one game that Betancourt has directly cost the team this season due to poor fielding. It seems that there may have been one game where he made an error and the opponent scored about 5 runs with the extra out, but that's all that comes to mind. Last year, Escobar made a handful of crucial errors that directly led to a loss.

 

I can we would have a 12 game win streak if we had even an average defensive ss. The Wednesday game at home with two outs and nobody on in I believe the 11th inning Holliday hits a little dribbler up the middle that 25 out of 30 short-stops in mlb get the out but Betancourt doesn't. Holliday steals 2nd, Berkman drives him in and we lose the game. His defense has jeporadized 2 of the last 4 games we have played against the Cardinals.

[topper09er]

Everyone makes errors like that at some point.

 

Everyone makes errors like Braun's at some point, just misplayed the

ball and it hit his hand. Betancourt's was a mental mistake, he was not

prepared to make the right play there before the ball was hit. If he

did, he would have made the very easy play of throwing the ball to

first.

I can't think of one game that Betancourt has directly cost the team this season due to poor fielding.

 

I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread, but that game in

Washington where he allowed the winning run (Jayson Werth) on base due

to an error. And the Holliday play last week, he needed to dive for a

ball hit like 5 feet from him.

[jjfanec]

Everyone makes errors like that at some point. I'll give you that it was a bonehead play, but it was kind of an awkward play with the ball and the runner coming at the same time right near the bag. I can't think of one game that Betancourt has directly cost the team this season due to poor fielding. It seems that there may have been one game where he made an error and the opponent scored about 5 runs with the extra out, but that's all that comes to mind. Last year, Escobar made a handful of crucial errors that directly led to a loss.

 

I can we would have a 12 game win streak if we had even an average defensive ss. The Wednesday game at home with two outs and nobody on in I believe the 11th inning Holliday hits a little dribbler up the middle that 25 out of 30 short-stops in mlb get the out but Betancourt doesn't. Holliday steals 2nd, Berkman drives him in and we lose the game. His defense has jeporadized 2 of the last 4 games we have played against the Cardinals.

And we probably would have lost a game or two with a poor hitting SS over that same span because Yuni's bat has been well above average for a SS. I just dont get the arguments about Yuni. He is not good, he is not average, but right now he is playing okay so lets enjoy the ride. The "I told you so" crowd will probably have to eat crow in a few weeks but right now the guy is helping this team. Last night Braun was terrible, Prince was terrible until his last at bat and Yuni wasnt good either yet we still won the game.

[rluzinski]

I don't even understand why we are trying to add up all the games Betancourt supposedly won or lost. It's terribly subjective and doesn't reveal anything. We already know that a player who puts up the numbers Betancourt has this year is significantly worse than an average player.

[DougJones43]

In addition to his botched tag attempt play, there was also a ground ball early in the game toward the hole between SS and 3B that (it appears) he should have easily gotten to, to end the inning. That also put a RISP. Fortunately Marcum pitched out of it, but we're not always going to be so lucky.

 

There were two instances yesterday of plays that would be made by almost all competent MLB shortstops,and either play could have easily cost us a win. You can't expect the pitching to keep getting out of jams caused by poor defensive plays. Eventually the team will get burned by this.

[Crew2323]

With Betancourt, you dont even need UZR, just watch the games. He is horrible out there, just last night he tried his hardest to lose the game, not even because he is fat and slow, but because he is dumb and lazy. Who tries to tag out a stealing runner on a grounder?

I'm not thrilled that Betancourt is our starting shortstop. I was wanting him to be replaced all along. But saying "just last night he tried his hardest to lose the game" is over the top. He isn't trying to lose games. It just so happens he's not very good at baseball and his mistakes can end up costing the Brewers games. Last night, however, his mistake didn't cost the Brewers the game. They ended up winning. So perhaps you can say the Brewers are winning "in spite" of him.

 

I understand your frustration with Betancourt. I feel it myself. But there has to be a modicum of sensibility when talking about the players and team we cheer.

[The Truth]

Last night, however, his mistake didn't cost the Brewers the game.

Only because Albert Pujols popped up with a runner on second base! The odds on that are not good...

 

At the very very least, Betancourt should not be playing in late innings of close games. The very least

[BrewCityUnit]

Last night, however, his mistake didn't cost the Brewers the game.

Only because Albert Pujols popped up with a runner on second base! The odds on that are not good...

 

At the very very least, Betancourt should not be playing in late innings of close games. The very least

Yeah, because Albert is hitting .288 so the chances of him getting a hit are less than 3 out of 10 which is greater than a 70 percent chance to make an out. Seems like pretty good odds to me.

[DougJones43]

...the chances of him getting a hit are less than 3 out of 10 which is greater than a 70 percent chance to make an out. Seems like pretty good odds to me.

The odds of the Cardinals scoring in that inning would have been 0% if Betancourt had just done his job. I'll take those odds please.

 

But I guess converting easy outs isn't important because the next guy up has a 70% chance of making an out (assuming the defense does their job that time).

[DougJones43]

 [u]AVG[/u] [u]OBP[/u] [u]SLG[/u] [u]OPS[/u]
Last 10 Days .200 .237 .314 .551
Season .263 .282 .384 .666

The hot streak is over. The overall numbers are still bad. The defense is still wretched.

 

If only there were some way this could have been foreseen.

[mothershipconnection]

In his defense, he at least has the OPS of the beast for the season, even if it's not "beast" in the Prince Fielder sense.

[kramnoj]

If only there were some way this could have been foreseen.

 

What is this in response to? Can you point to one person who said that Betancourt was going to maintain his hot streak for the rest of the season?

 

Just as someone could say that 10 days of a hot streak was meaningless, the last 10 days are meaningless. His season to date is remarkably close to his preseason projection.

 

I thoroughly enjoyed Betancourt's run and the run the Brewers had for a good part that went along with it. I hope that he is a positive to the Brewers while we await the return of Weeks and Gomez, and am hopeful Hairston does a good enough job as well to convince management that he should get some starts at SS in September.

[rluzinski]

No one expected his hot streak to continue but there was some question regarding whether Betancourt had really "adjusted his approach". The implication was that perhaps those adjustments allowed him to instantly become a better hitter.

[DougJones43]

There was also a sentiment of "who cares what his past performance and future projections say -- he's hitting right now and therefore deserves to play everyday." Many people tried to point out that even while in the midst of his hot streak, there was no reason to believe the likelihood of him continuing to hit above expectations in the upcoming game(s) was any higher than usual.

 

He's not hitting anymore. So, now what defense is there to continue playing him everyday with Hairston on the team?

[kramnoj]

There was also a sentiment of "who cares what his past performance and future projections say -- he's hitting right now and therefore deserves to play everyday."

 

Can you provide compelling evidence of who would have provided equal production to Betancourt during his hot streak?

 

The Brewers benefited from his play during that time.

 

He's not hitting anymore. So, now what defense is there to continue playing him everyday with Hairston on the team?

 

Right now? I would rather Hairston split his time between 2B and CF until Weeks comes back.

[rluzinski]

Can you provide compelling evidence of who would have provided equal production to Betancourt during his hot streak?

 

Batters in a hot streak are expected to perform only slightly better going forward. That's what history has shown. So the real question is, who did the Brewers have that projected to perform better than Betancourt's projection at that time? The answer is Haiston, although you might be right that he's better off playing in other places right now.

[DougJones43]

Can you provide compelling evidence of who would have provided equal production to Betancourt during his hot streak?

That's not the issue. The issue is that using a hot streak to justify continuing to play a bad player inevitably leads to playing them into their regression to crappiness as well, which defeats the whole purpose of "riding the hot hand."

 

The Brewers benefited from his play during that time.

Yes, but they've been hindered by his poor play before and since. Whatever benefit a bad hitter provides during a hot streak isn't worth it since the team has to wade though garbage the rest of the year in order to reap the benefits a small amount of good play.

[kramnoj]

That's not the issue.

 

When you point out that people were saying that he should keep his job during the hot streak, and it continued being a hot streak, yes, yes, it is an issue.

 

Yes, but they've been hindered by his poor play before and since.

 

There really isn't enough of a sample size in "since" to support this, and I think a lot of teams would love to be so hindered as the Brewers have been during that time.

[brettac1]

Really, though, can he just not be on my TV anymore?

[Ennder]

Betancourt is still most likely the worst starting SS in baseball that is playing for a team that actually matters, nothing has changed.

[monty57]

Betancourt heating up timed well with Rickie going down. It allowed our offense to be good enough, when complemented with outstanding pitching, to win a lot of games. Somehow, Betancourt's "hot streak" allowed many to believe that McGehee was also hitting well... I don't get that one.

 

After sitting the bench too much for the first week or so, it seems Hairston has "proved himself" to Roenicke, so I'd guess going forward that he will play CF vs. lefties and 2B vs righties until Gomez and Weeks return. Hairston will then split time at SS/3B. I just hope that Yuni's hot streak won't keep him starting everyday over Hairston for the remainder of the season. A negative of a hot streak is if the manager comes to believe that he should expect that hitting to be the norm, and that the player will "snap out of the cold streak," when really the "cold streak" is the player's norm.

[topper09er]

RRR is dooming this great team

 

http://milwaukee.brewers....ey=notebook_mil&c_id=mil

 

"It seems like every day, he hits something really hard. Sometimes he's getting a hit, sometimes he's not."

 

Are you insane RR, what games are you watching?

 

"I wouldn't mind looking at [Hairston] there, but I don't think there's a reason to say, 'I want to see if he can play there instead of Yuni,'" Roenicke said.

 

He is an idiot, he doesn't understand anything about baseball and his only asset is that the players like him and are "having fun", as if they wouldn't be having fun if someone else was in charge of this roster that is playing .600 baseball.

[dlk9s]

I've kept a cool head all season about Yuni, but after having watched the last few games, I've officially made up my mind that he HAS to be replaced. Not that I ever thought he was good, but like many people, I figured that when his bat improved for a while that I could suffer him being in the lineup. His latest slump is not bad luck. The low BABIP is because he has a lazy, one-handed, looping swing and never tries to take the ball the other way. Trying to pull everything with that horrible swing results in pop-ups and groundouts up the wazoo with every pitch that isn't down the middle or on the inner half. There is no way in hell I'd ever throw him a pitch that wasn't on the outside corner, particularly low. He either pops those to right or grounds them to the left side.

 

In the meantime, Hairston generally puts together good AB's. He has a good swing and can hit to all fields. He doesn't usually swing at crap. As long as he's even slightly below replacement level at SS, he'd be a gigantic improvement over Yuni once Weeks is back. It simply makes no sense to not make that change. Significantly better bat and, at worst, same defensive ability.

 

I can live with McGehee in the lineup. I can't deal with Yuni at this point.

[RockCoCougars]

He is an idiot, he doesn't understand anything about baseball and his only asset is that the players like him and are "having fun", as if they wouldn't be having fun if someone else was in charge of this roster that is playing .600 baseball.

 

The Brewers were playing .600 baseball for a spell with Macha, and they didn't seem to be having much fun.

[topper09er]

He is an idiot, he doesn't understand anything about baseball and his only asset is that the players like him and are "having fun", as if they wouldn't be having fun if someone else was in charge of this roster that is playing .600 baseball.

 

The Brewers were playing .600 baseball for a spell with Macha, and they didn't seem to be having much fun.

The Brewers only played .600 ball for 1 of the 12 months Macha was the manager, May of 2009.