Toronto calls up Lawrie

[kramnoj]

Greinke has been great, but it's important to remember the difference in offensive levels between 2008 and this year. In 2008, CC's ERA+ was 255.

 

I don't know how to calculate ERA+, but Greinke's ERA since the ASB is close to what Kershaw is for the season, and his ERA+ is 161. I'm guessing Zach's would be a bit better with park factor adjusted, but still not all that close to what CC did.

[danzig6767]

.

 

As far as Greinke goes, I've been steady in my opinion of the deal since the day it happened, we overpaid. Odorizzi cooling off has nothing to do with anything, it's about the amount of talent given up for the talent acquired. Greinke simply doesn't pitch like a #1 year in and year out, despite having the talent to do so, but Melvin paid for him as if he was a #1, and many posters on this expected him to pitch like Sabathia, which just wasn't going to be the case.

 

. Off the top of my head Cain, Niemann, and Buccholz were all on the block in successive years, 2 of those 3 guys would have made a huge difference in our staff from 2009 till now, and wouldn't have cost us a total of LaPorta, Brantley, Bryson, Escobar, Cain, Jeffress, Odorizzi, and Lawrie to get there.

Cain and Buccholz alone would have cost a ton. I think you undervalue what it takes to get pitching. The Cubs gave up really good prospects to get Garza. St. Louis gave up Rasmus for E. Jackson and a couple okay relievers. Bryson and Jeffress did not have a ton of value even if we loved them as prospects and neither are really of much value anymore. Escobar was shown to be one some scouts thought he was - an all-field no hit shortstop. Cain is a solid but not great outfield prospect same with Brantley. LaPorta, Odorizza and Lawrie are the only guys who are top 100 type prospects. Lawrie looks like a potential stud. Odorizzi looked dominant until he got to AA ball but he has time to turn it around and LaPorta has been ok at best.

 

Cain alone would have cost a haul close to Greinke when you wanted to trade for him

Buccholz was the #4 prospect in baseball in 2008. No guy on this list was top 20 except maybe Lawrie last year but you would have had to package a player like Lawrie and another to get Clay.

Neimann was young and under control for a long time and peaked as #20 on the prospect list. He would have cost a lot too.

 

You under-estimate what it would cost to get major league ready pitching. Especially pitching under control for 4 plus years like all these guys were.

 

Greinke has been an ace since the break. He had a rough start because he didnt have Spring Training but his 2.23 ERA and peripherals are ace like. Maybe not Sabbathia-like but still terrific.

 

I could go one with your post with where I agree and disagree but I dont have the time. I do agree people (inlcuding myself) at times are trying to down play how good Lawrie is. He has the potential to be a star player and he was overpaying (not by as much as you think) for Marcum. However, I will never agree we overpaid for Greinke. Of the 4 prospects only two were guys I miss even a little.

Crew07 tries saying Melvin really overpaid for Greinke, i totally disagree. Jeffress is only a relief pitcher that still has huge command problems. My money is on him having little to no impact as a big league player. Escobar now has had back to back years of him being one of if not the worst hitting everyday players in all of baseball. Cain may end up having a solid big league career, but he'll be 26 next year and isn't an upper tier prospect. Next year Morgan/Gomez can platoon again in CF which has worked out great and

Logan Shafer will get one more season in AAA to refine his skills. Odorizzi is the only guy in the trade i really wish we could have kept, but while Odorizzi does have plenty of upside, he isn't considered an elite

pitching prospect and he's struggled a bit since being promoted to AA. Time will tell on Odorizzi, but not only has Greinke been key this year and under contract next year, he may end up signing an extension. Great trade.

 

Crew also continues to bring up the Sabbathia trade in a bad light, yet if any team has to be disappointed with that trade, it's Cleveland. LaPorta has pretty much been a huge bust so far for the Indians. Brantley is a 4th outfielder and that might be being kind given how he's hit for a corner outfielder. Bryson is a 23 year old relief pitcher still in AA. On the other hand, Sabbathia had an epic stint here in which he not only lead the Brewers to it's first playoff berth in decades, i believe that time helped revive the love for baseball here in Milwaukee again.

 

The Marcum/Lawrie trade is the only one i worry about given how fabulous Lawrie has hit this year, but if Lawrie continues to do very well for Toronto, i'll be able to stomach watching that if we manage to end up playing in the World Series. That said, i thought Lawrie had a good shot to be a quality MLB hitter in time, but what he's done this year at age 21 has surprised me. Wow he's looked great and we certainly could end up regretting this one.

 

Lastly, i laugh at how Crew07 keeps bringing up this stuff about Melvin should have acquired this/that great young pitching prospects. In his post he states, "Cain, Niemann, and Buccholz were all on the block" based only on media reports, but having zero clue if any of them truly were "on the block" and even if they weren't 100% untouchable, what would be required in an actual trade, not pretend guessing. For those three young/cheap highly valuable young starting pitchers to have supposedly been on the block in successive years as he states, Melvin obviously wasn't the only GM who couldn't acquire any of the three pitchers because nobody else acquired them either. They weren't traded, just as high quality/well thought of young starters on the cheap rarely ever get traded by teams. I think it's safe to assume that while Cain, Niemann, and Buccholz may not have been absolutely 100% untouchable, just as few players in the game are 100% untouchable if a team were to throw out a silly great offer, they likely were about 90-95% untouchable, just as say Gallardo was to us. Yet, Crew07 seems to believe that SF, Tampa, and Boston were eager to move their highly valuable young starting pitchers and thus the bumbling Doug Melvin blew the chance to get one or more of those three arms, even though no other GM pulled off a deal either as the three were never traded for obvious reasons.

 

This isn't fantasy baseball where impatient team owners trade away quality young starters all he time or a forum where fans can think up pretend trades based off media rumors and there you go, Matt Cain is now a Brewer. Or just because some baseball reporter or blogger says so and so player is "on the block", that it's actually true given usually they really weren't on the block. Unlike fans dreaming up pretend trades, a real GM has to call another GM and when they start asking for highly regarded young starters, in the vast majority of cases they'll hear thanks for calling, but no thanks, regardless if some baseball reporter said the guy was available.

[homer]

I remember reading one front office guy saying he didn't think the Royals got enough for Greinke. I think that was one of those anonymous quotes that Jayson Stark uses.

[GB12]

Lawrie is out for the rest of the year with a fractured finger

[RobDeer 45]

Ya, horrible news. Heard it was the result of a poor tape job in a game of edward 40 hands.