Toronto calls up Lawrie

[jjfanec]

Odorizzi dominated high-A & hasn't had the same success in his first crack at AA as a 21-yo. I don't think he should be or should have been expected to dominate like he did in A-ball at every step of the way. He's still an excellent prospect.

Sure he shouldnt be expected to dominate but I think most are surprised by his lack of success. His K numbers have dropped dramatically. I still think he is a solid prospect, but those numbers should give pause to anyone who thinks we for sure gave up a future number 2 starter. People were acting like we gave up the next Yo (or better) but compare their numbers in their first stint in AA and it isnt even close. Yo was a year younger had way more K's, and gave up way less hits. I dont know if I would say Odorizzi is an excellent prospect. Very good but not elite.

[gregmag]

Lawrie's going to be an elite hitter, but he may be a defensive cipher as well as a pain in the neck -- or he may shape up and be MVP-caliber. Cain still looks like a solid regular. Odorizzi has only had six starts at AA; I would say it's fair to judge him by his overall season line, which still says "elite pitching prospect" to me, but he's young and could very easily get hurt. Escobar is glove-only until he proves otherwise. Jeffress has done nothing to suggest that he's going anywhere.

 

I don't care about losing Jeffress at all, and Escobar only looks good when you're comparing him to someone like Yuni. The other three guys I'd like to have, but I like having two years of two frontline starters during a strong contention window better.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yo was a year younger had way more K's, and gave up way less hits. I dont know if I would say Odorizzi is an excellent prospect. Very good but not elite.

 

On the one hand, you say he shouldn't be expected to dominate, but then the counterexample is Yo completely dominating AA. I would just say that, for me, it's too early to draw a conclusion on whether Odorizzi is a lesser prospect than Gallardo was or not. I get your larger point, which is that Yo's peripherals even translated well to AA... for me, that's part of dominating.

 

I don't think Odorizzi has good odds to develop into the pitcher Yo has, but not many prospects do. I still think Odorizzi is a very good (if excellent is too strong for your taste http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif ) prospect. Now, if he can't improve on his mid-4's ERA next season in repeating AA, then I guess I'd be concerned. Gallardo had a 5+ ERA at AAA in '08, only 15.2 IP to Odorizzi's 34.1 this season at AA. Odorizzi's only made 6 starts at that level, it's just too small a sample for me to say that I'd let that hamper my opinion of him much. Tools are probably a more accurate way to gauge a 21-yo pitcher, but I hear you on the decreased K rate (though Wily Peralta is an example of K rate dropping... then jumping back up). Just too short of time for me to let it affect what I think he can become. Has he been as dominant as Yo was at AA? No. Do I still think he's a very good/excellent prospect? Yes.

 

 

Anyway... Lawrie http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif. I have to agree with SoCal Brew Crew Fan. Lawrie looks huge in the picture included in the lead post's linked article.

[dadofandrew]

Lawrie might be as good as Braun. I hated giving him up, and still do.

 

That said, if Marcum continues to be an elite SP this year and next, it's tough to question the trade. Doug had a plan, and he worked it. Hopefully, Marcum will stay healthy and effective.

[DannoMac21]

The only reason why I dislike the trade to this day is because he has a hot sister.

 

That's it...the kid's a tool.

[jjfanec]

Yo was a year younger had way more K's, and gave up way less hits. I dont know if I would say Odorizzi is an excellent prospect. Very good but not elite.

 

On the one hand, you say he shouldn't be expected to dominate, but then the counterexample is Yo completely dominating AA. I would just say that, for me, it's too early to draw a conclusion on whether Odorizzi is a lesser prospect than Gallardo was or not. I get your larger point, which is that Yo's peripherals even translated well to AA... for me, that's part of dominating.

 

I don't think Odorizzi has good odds to develop into the pitcher Yo has, but not many prospects do. I still think Odorizzi is a very good (if excellent is too strong for your taste http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif ) prospect. Now, if he can't improve on his mid-4's ERA next season in repeating AA, then I guess I'd be concerned. Gallardo had a 5+ ERA at AAA in '08, only 15.2 IP to Odorizzi's 34.1 this season at AA. Odorizzi's only made 6 starts at that level, it's just too small a sample for me to say that I'd let that hamper my opinion of him much. Tools are probably a more accurate way to gauge a 21-yo pitcher, but I hear you on the decreased K rate (though Wily Peralta is an example of K rate dropping... then jumping back up). Just too short of time for me to let it affect what I think he can become. Has he been as dominant as Yo was at AA? No. Do I still think he's a very good/excellent prospect? Yes.

 

 

Anyway... Lawrie http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif. I have to agree with SoCal Brew Crew Fan. Lawrie looks huge in the picture included in the lead post's linked article.

What concerns me about Odorizzi is the strikeouts and now walking more guys. For some reason it reminds me of Will Inman who had great numbers but once he got to AA he couldnt get the strikeouts without only getting through 5 innings. I understand the small sample size but he is almost half way to sample size he had for high A. I like Odorizzi but he looks like a 2 at best and more likely a 3 or 4 which is still good but not elite. I wish he was still in our system but I love Greinke and we needed pitching.

[cwolf2012]

In my opinion, way way too small a sample size in AA to really judge Odorizzi. If he's still struggling through the end of the season and about 2 months into next season, then this may warrant more discussion.

[jjfanec]

In my opinion, way way too small a sample size in AA to really judge Odorizzi. If he's still struggling through the end of the season and about 2 months into next season, then this may warrant more discussion.

It is not saying he is not going to be a very good pitcher but it is cause for concern.

[DannoMac21]

http://www.makli.us/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/danielle-lawrie2.jpg

 

Lawrie and his sister.

[MadisonBrewerBlue]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/w....jsp?content_id=22838134

[thablingster]

I was slightly disappointed there were no "and that's" during his interview. That was pretty hilarious though how his teammates pied and gatoraded him.

[Eye Black]

In some respects I would compare Lawrie to how I once felt about Gary Sheffield as a Brewer. He has undeniable talent, but a different organization may be a better fit. I do think Lawrie will end up being one of the faces of the franchise in Toronto. In fact I hope he does (would love to see Toronto win that division in the future over either Evil Empire). Either way, the trade allowed the Brewers to bring in a much needed pitching piece that has helped fortify them into a playoff caliber team. If this team ends up making the playoffs and having some success in the post-season, I think the trade has to be considered a success regardless of Lawrie's future success.

 

The point is, without adding Marcum and Grienke to this team I don't think we would be enjoying so much of the 2011 season, which is likely the last time (outside of an All Star Game) that we will get to watch Ryan, Rickie, and Prince all play together.

[jjfanec]

Yo was a year younger had way more K's, and gave up way less hits. I dont know if I would say Odorizzi is an excellent prospect. Very good but not elite.

 

On the one hand, you say he shouldn't be expected to dominate, but then the counterexample is Yo completely dominating AA. I would just say that, for me, it's too early to draw a conclusion on whether Odorizzi is a lesser prospect than Gallardo was or not. I get your larger point, which is that Yo's peripherals even translated well to AA... for me, that's part of dominating.

 

I don't think Odorizzi has good odds to develop into the pitcher Yo has, but not many prospects do. I still think Odorizzi is a very good (if excellent is too strong for your taste http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif ) prospect. Now, if he can't improve on his mid-4's ERA next season in repeating AA, then I guess I'd be concerned. Gallardo had a 5+ ERA at AAA in '08, only 15.2 IP to Odorizzi's 34.1 this season at AA. Odorizzi's only made 6 starts at that level, it's just too small a sample for me to say that I'd let that hamper my opinion of him much. Tools are probably a more accurate way to gauge a 21-yo pitcher, but I hear you on the decreased K rate (though Wily Peralta is an example of K rate dropping... then jumping back up). Just too short of time for me to let it affect what I think he can become. Has he been as dominant as Yo was at AA? No. Do I still think he's a very good/excellent prospect? Yes.

 

 

Anyway... Lawrie http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif. I have to agree with SoCal Brew Crew Fan. Lawrie looks huge in the picture included in the lead post's linked article.

What concerns me about Odorizzi is the strikeouts and now walking more guys. For some reason it reminds me of Will Inman who had great numbers but once he got to AA he couldnt get the strikeouts without only getting through 5 innings. I understand the small sample size but he is almost half way to sample size he had for high A. I like Odorizzi but he looks like a 2 at best and more likely a 3 or 4 which is still good but not elite. I wish he was still in our system but I love Greinke and we needed pitching.

I said this about Odorizzi before his start last night where he gave up 6 run in 4 2/3 innings. 7 more hits, 3 more walks and 2 more home runs. I am know starting to think he must be hurting. He has never been hit like this over a one month period. Hopefully he figures it out because he was one of my favorite prospects when we traded him.

 

Lawrie is hitting very well in his first 3 games. Got his first home run today.

[cwolf2012]

"I am know starting to think he must be hurting."

 

An injury makes sense. It's kinda like Austin Ross this year for the Brewers. Shredding low A, but starts getting rocked start after start after moving to A+. No level jump is so dramatic. Something else is at hand.

[Bernman23]

Some people might perceive Braun and Morgan as douches if they were on an opposing team. Lawrie just seems like a cocky guy on the field with a carefree attitude off it. As far as I know he hasn't done harm to anybody (to compare him to Sheffield is ridiculous). So I'd love to still have him in Milwaukee and wish him good luck in Toronto. Just not too good of luck, otherwise we'll regret that deal down the line.

 

Had neither pitching trade been made, the Brewers could have had a pretty awesome lineup in a couple years between the likes of Braun, Weeks, Lawrie, Green, Gamel, Cain, Hart, Lucroy, Morgan, etc. The only hole would have been shortstop. And then they would have some money to spend on that position and pitching from the Prince departure and the fact that many of the aforementioned players would have been under our control for years at lower wages. We exchanged the potential of a year or two of success for even more later. So not only making the playoffs, but making a couple of runs, is vital to justify moves. Parlaying having Greinke and Marcum under contract into an extension for one wouldn't hurt either.

[homer]

Had neither pitching trade been made, the Brewers could have had a pretty awesome lineup in a couple years between the likes of Braun, Weeks, Lawrie, Green, Gamel, Cain, Hart, Lucroy, Morgan, etc. The only hole would have been shortstop.

Except where would Lawrie play? Someone else would have to get the boot.

[Bernman23]

Had neither pitching trade been made, the Brewers could have had a pretty awesome lineup in a couple years between the likes of Braun, Weeks, Lawrie, Green, Gamel, Cain, Hart, Lucroy, Morgan, etc. The only hole would have been shortstop.

Except where would Lawrie play? Someone else would have to get the boot.

Well, every single one of those players might not have panned out, so it could have worked itself out. Or they could have made a deal with a team like themselves who had a glut of prospects at one position.

[davego]

Both deals were necessary in the fact that there are time when franchises do need to go for the brass ring. This was the time (well, I thought next year would have been the go for it year, but that was in an alternate universe) for the 'Crew. So far...worth it.

 

The KC deal due to the volume of players give up might become more painful.

[logan82]

Had neither pitching trade been made, the Brewers could have had a pretty awesome lineup in a couple years between the likes of Braun, Weeks, Lawrie, Green, Gamel, Cain, Hart, Lucroy, Morgan, etc. The only hole would have been shortstop.

Except where would Lawrie play? Someone else would have to get the boot.

3B, 1B or RF/LF. Hart's contract is only through 2013. McGehee and Fielder would likely need replacements next year. We would probably have ended up with something like

 

2 Lucroy

3 Gamel

4 Weeks

5 Lawrie

6 Some guy

7 Braun

8 Cain

9 Hart

 

with Lawrie or Gamel sliding into RF after Hart leaves the other at 1B and Green at 3B. Would probably have been a pretty solid lineup. Hard for a manager to screw up since most of the hitters would be pretty close in talent.

[jjfanec]

We MIGHT have had a good lineup since there is no way to know how Gamel, Lawrie, Cain, and Green really will do in the majors, but one this is for sure our pitching would be awful. We only gave up one prospect to get the two, and Odorizzi has struggled so far in the AA. Peralta is a good prospect but we would have had Yo and thats it this year and next year. I was so sick of signing old pitchers to 3 to 4 year deals. Trading for younger talented pitchers is a lot better. If we are not competing next year we could trade Greinke and Marcum for bats/young pitchers or prospects next trade deadline

[CheezWizHed]

25 years ago, Glenn Braggs was a stud future HOFer as well.

 

Ouch, now I feel old. I still have his autographed rookie card.

[Bernman23]

Lawrie was 2-4 with a grand slam tonight. He looks like a monster. I'm sure Melvin is following his performances given part of his reputation will be based on deals like that. The least he could do is see Lawrie's immediate benefit and apply the possibility to Taylor Green. He wouldn't have to be near as good as Lawrie to be of benefit. Lawrie is sporting an 1.167 OPS. If Green could give us a .750 he'd be help in a platoon. I understand to not tinker with what's working overall, but McGehee is still not working individually. He was 0-3 today and his OPS is back down to .628. Green was 2-4 with a BB, HBP, and his OPS is now over 1.000.

[yfinn6]

Give pitchers time to find holes in Lawrie's swing. If he's as good as advertised he will make adjustments. We see a lot of rookies have good weeks, months, or seasons and then trail off a bit. Pitchers are dang good, they'll find a way to get him out. If Lawrie makes good adjustments and finds ways to keep getting his extra base hits, then I will start to miss him.

[dlk9s]

Case in point: Jason Heyward.

 

I do think Lawrie is going to be very good. Let's not go crazy just yet, though.

[packfan79]

I just saw the highlights did the guy drill Escobar because of Lawrie's reaction?