Disappointed in Brewers Deadline Moves

[jeffy]

I wish DM would have been able to swing a deal for a LHP in the pen..

 

The little things will matter in the playoffs.

 

 

Well, presumably they will at least have Narveson in the pen for playoffs.

 

Little things matter, but the biggest thing that matters in the playoffs is, I think, starting pitching and that aspect is looking really good for the brewers.

[Oldcity]

Yes, moves were made to win now, which is great. It's also why it's asinine to A. Not cut Yuni the minute they made the Greinke trade, B. Enter the season with him as the starter and no other real options, and C. To let him suck for four months and STILL not upgrade him with anyone who can play an average defensive shortstop.

It's the worst decision of the Melvin Era.

[logan82]

Clearly your hate for Betancourt isn't even allowing you to make a rational argument.

 

Not really. Just because you disagree doesn't mean the argument isn't rational. I see your argument as completely stuck in irrational baseball dogma for example. "He's hitting well so we should ride the hot hand." One game or week isn't predictive of a guy continuing to hit. He is a bad hitter and defender. He should be removed promptly from the daily lineup.

 

 

There is clearly something to players having a good stretch of games where they are seeing the ball well. Betancourt is having a streak where just about every time he has an at bat he is hitting the ball hard. You don't bench him while that is the case. It isn't a terrible strategy, it is the smart move.

 

It really is terrible strategy. Yuni doesn't have the skill Hairiston does. Either on defense or offense. There is no reason to expect him to hit better tomorrow than Hairiston. Add in Yuni has the range of a guy falling down on defense and Hairiston is clearly a better player.

[fondybrewfan]

The timing of this Yuni hate seems a bit odd. Obviously the guy sucks at defensive but so does virtually everybody else in the starting lineup. Is he really any worse than McGehee, Braun, or Fielder?

 

When I see that we have a SS that has OPS'd 700 in the last 2 months including a 750 in July and 930 since the all star break I feel that we are getting pretty good production from SS.

[Nader Raider Tim]

Looking at who was traded and who was rumored to be traded I just don't see the players that the Brewers needed to get. I also don't see to many crazy good values. The Jeff Keppinger deal is probably something they should have looked into, but perhaps the Astro's didn't want to trade in division. I think Edwin Jackson to Toronto was another deal the Brewers would have been wise to try and pull down, not an area of need but could have been a huge get. Also it's hard to say the Brewers should have boosted payroll that much, it's already at a decent level.

 

Hopefully August will be kind to the Brewers and a couple of players will become available that will fit there needs. Aramis Ramirez is the big name, I am hoping mid August he starts asking for a trade. Brian Fuentes would be another ideal candidate.

 

The Division got better but not exponentially better. The problem is the Phillies and Braves and Giants got exponentially better.

 

I am disappointed the Brewers couldn't pull down a +SS or +3rd but it's me being disappointed in the market this year not in the Brewers lack of moves.

[And That]

Is he really any worse [defensively] than McGehee, Braun, or Fielder?

At the risk of turning this into a Yuni thread, IMO on defense:

 

McGehee is definitely better than Yuni, though he's below average.

Braun is definitely better than Yuni, and probably around average.

Fielder is probably better than Yuni, though he's well below average.

 

Betancourt is flat-out a wretched defender, one of the worst few in baseball.

[DougJones43]

The timing of this Yuni hate seems a bit odd. Obviously the guy sucks at defensive but so does virtually everybody else in the starting lineup. Is he really any worse than McGehee, Braun, or Fielder?

 

When I see that we have a SS that has OPS'd 700 in the last 2 months including a 750 in July and 930 since the all star break I feel that we are getting pretty good production from SS.

Good defense is more important from the SS position than at 1B or LF. As for McGehee, almost everybody thinks he's a poor defensive player and his offense certainly doesn't make up for it. Most here want him replaced ASAP, just like Betancourt. Just because somebody else on the team is also terrible doesn't make Betancourt's overall ineptitude any more acceptable. I'd actually argue the opposite is true. Yuni's presence would be more tolerable without McGehee, Counsell, and Kotsay stinking up the field.

 

And just because Yuni has finally had a few productive weeks doesn't mean it's going to continue for the rest of the year. The past few years worth of data on him is a much better indicator of what to expect than the past few weeks.

 

In fact, Yuni's OPS over the past week is only .668, so I guess that means he's cooling down and is no longer even a "hot hand."

[NievesNoNO]

fondybrewfan[/b]]I am pretty happy with the trading season. Hairston covers a lot of our weaknesses; if/when McGehee/Yuni go back into slumps we at least have someone to step in now. Obviously we also have more coverage in the OF as well.

 

I think Melvin will pick up a waiver wire LHP; I think that is really the only othe major missing piece.

 

I think it is a little crazy to criticize Melvin for not going for it when in the last 10 months he has brought in Marcum, Grienke, Saito, Morgan, K-Rod, among others. I guess I was never in love with Furcal either; Hairston might be much more valuable to the team due to his versality. Yeah the team still has some holes; but so does every other team that has a payroll under $100 Million. I really like our chances going into the final 2 months. Obviously the the other 3 likely playoff teams will be awfully tough; but you never know what can happen in the playoffs.

You pretty much echoed my thoughts exactly.

 

How did we not land Furcal, Jimenez, Pence, and ARam!!?? Seriously, I just don't know that we have the firepower in the minors to land much more than who we aquired. I will say I was somewhat disappointed the Cards got Furcal, but it remains to be seen whether he's truly healthy or not. I wasn't expecting some monster deal by the Brewers to go down. All in all, Hairiston, K-Rod, and Lopez are nice acquisitions that will definitely help going forward.

 

[gregmag]

The timing of this Yuni hate seems a bit odd. Obviously the guy sucks at defensive but so does virtually everybody else in the starting lineup. Is he really any worse than McGehee, Braun, or Fielder?

 

When I see that we have a SS that has OPS'd 700 in the last 2 months including a 750 in July and 930 since the all star break I feel that we are getting pretty good production from SS.

So let me get this straight: Because we have other bad defensive players, we should resist the temptation to upgrade our defense at shortstop? What, we're afraid Prince and Casey will feel upstaged if somebody else in the infield starts beating rigor mortis?

 

I'm conflicted on the "hot hand" argument re: Yuni's hitting, because I don't think I know enough about how baseball players function to reach a firm judgment. I'm a stathead, but I don't think players are just like coin flips. Players do seem to "figure it out" for stretches and "lose it" for stretches. So I'm willing to consider the possibility that Yuni's "hot hand" on offense right now is a real thing.

 

But even if it is, that just means he should be gone after his next 0-10. He's still a corpse on defense, and we know he's a bad hitter over the medium and long term. Let's put this in perspective: Yuni has needed every bit of his big hot streak to get his OBP up to .273 and his OPS+ (which overrates him by overrating SLG) up to 75. Those are monstrous numbers. I don't know if Ozzie Smith helps you if he's hitting like that. We now have a replacement in Hairston who can play the position at least the bulk of the time, so the team can no longer swaddle Yuni in the "he's the best we have available" argument (assuming that argument was ever credible to begin with).

 

One more thing: At least two posters in recent days have accused people who want Betancourt replaced of being irrational or biased. I'm not going to throw that charge back in the other direction, because (1) I always know I may be wrong about anything, and (2) I understand and take seriously the arguments made by people who want to give Yuni more rope. But there's no way you can look at his numbers and say that those of us who want him out of the lineup don't have a strong basis in reason for our position.

[PrinceEatMeat]

My wishlist:

Aramis Ramirez

Ryan Ludwick (get rid of Kotsay)

Michael Bourn

Clint Barmes (at least he's a helluva defender)

I have bad news for you...

 

Ramirez: said he wouldn't waive his full no-trade clause.

Ludwick: the Brewers aren't going to get rid of Mark Kotsay to get a slightly better Mark Kotsay. He might be available in August if Pirates fall out of it, anyway.

Michael Bourn: why would the Brewers trade for a CF?

Clint Barmes: Astros told a bunch of teams they weren't interested in trading him.

 

Look, I'm as bummed as anyone that Betancourt is still the SS, Counsell is still on the roster, Taylor Green, but the Brewers can't make roster moves in a vacuum. They have to be able to trade for players that are available (which Ramirez and Barmes most likely weren't) and are worth the price in prospects relative to the upgrade they're worth on the roster (Bourn is not).

 

The Brewers will probably make some moves in August for another IF and a LOOGY. The IF won't be Jose Reyes and the LOOGY won't be Sean Marshall, so please don't set yourself up for disappointment.

I agree with all of this 100%. Made sure to look through to see if anyone shared my opinion and this is it. There was no way Melvin was gonna do better than he did at the deadline. That's just a fact. I know people wanted a BIG move, but it just wasn't out there. I'm sure he'll add a LOGGY in August when the prices go down, and possibly a SS or 3B is Yuni and McGehee don't start getting hot. There just aren't gonna be any moves that are that exciting. Getting K-Rod, Lopez, and Hairston was a pretty good haul given the needs we had and what was out there. He also didn't give up very much to do it, pending the PTBNL in the Mets trade. But I really doubt anyone good will be in that trade either. Taylor Green isn't on the roster because they still have faith in McGehee, even though we all don't. He'll get called up in September.

[Warning Track Power]

Disappointment from my end only comes from the fact that the players who could have theoretically upgraded the SS position were not made available. If Barmes and or Brendan Ryan were available and we did not make the move then that is on Melvin. I would have liked to have seen Furcal and that may come back to bite us considering he went to the Cards but I can understand if Melvin was scared off by his medical past.

 

Ryan and Barmes were the only safe bets for upgrades at SS, however, if they truly weren't available, I'm not exactly sure how anyone can be disappointed.

[fondybrewfan]

Its not like I disagree that Yuni should be replaced if we could(Obviously for a reasonable price); I don't think he is a good player by any stretch. I was just pointing out that Yuni has been reasonably good for the last 2 months and is far from the worst SS offensively. If he was even below average defensively I would probably love the guy. It just seems weird that on a team full of crappy defensive players that he gets singled out so much for his defense. I have been thinking that is might be a toss up between McGehee / Yuni / Fielder as the worst defensive player on the team but obviously Yuni plays the more important defensive position.

[Warning Track Power]

Yuni's body language doesn't help him...whereas I see McGehee and Fielder actually hustling after bobbled balls or balls not hit right at them, Yuni just appears to be lollygagging a lot of times. This may be one of the reasons why he is ridden so hard by us fans. Just my observation.

[logan82]

Its not like I disagree that Yuni should be replaced if we could(Obviously for a reasonable price); I don't think he is a good player by any stretch. I was just pointing out that Yuni has been reasonably good for the last 2 months and is far from the worst SS offensively. If he was even below average defensively I would probably love the guy. It just seems weird that one a team full of crappy defensive players that he gets singled out so much for his defense. I have been thinking that is might be a toss up between McGehee / Yuni / Fielder as the worst defensive player on the team but obviously Yuni plays the more important defensive position.

Yuni would have to improve to be below average defensively.

 

Yuni gets singled out for 2 reasons.

1)He has no track record of success in the past few years.

2)For some reason people feel compelled to defend him which is odd, see #1.

 

Neither Yuni or McGehee are doing anything well at this point. Every other player can at least hit enough to make up for their defensive shortcomings. Yuni is probably our worst defender on the field at what is considered a premium defensive position.

[JohnBriggs12]

Yuni's body language doesn't help him...whereas I see McGehee and Fielder actually hustling after bobbled balls or balls not hit right at them, Yuni just appears to be lollygagging a lot of times. This may be one of the reasons why he is ridden so hard by us fans. Just my observation.

Honestly I think you are right about the fans but wrong about Betancourt. Appearing to lolllygag isn't the same as actually lollygagging. The greatest player ever to wear a Milwaukee uniform "appeared" to lollygag. That's Hammerin Hank Aaron. Read his book "I had a Hammer". Aaron was crucified as a lazy player early in his career, for the simple reason his gait was loping and he didn't dive after balls. People contrasted that understated style to the flamboyant Willie Mays at the time. I've never seen Betancourt lollygag. A lot of guys fake effort. That's easy to do. Yuni isn't one of them. Betancourt doesn't dive after balls he has no chance to get to (by the way Hardy didn't either). He runs hard on the bases. Believe me if he were actually lollygagging, it wouldn't be accepted in the clubhouse. Betancourt by all accounts is very popular with his teammates. It was reported he spent a lot of extra time in the cage working on staying back on pitches. It's paying off. Fans need to give it a rest.

 

[rluzinski]

There is clearly something to players having a good stretch of games where they are seeing the ball well.

I've pointed this out about 100 times over the last 9 years but there is very little evidence that batters who are "hot" continue to perform over their expected performance level. It's 99% statistical noise. Same goes for cold streaks. An excel batter gets hot all the time as well. I'm sure there are times where cold streaks are real but good luck determining when.

Yuni has an updated ZiPS projection of .265/.289/.398. There is also a clear consensus among scouts, advanced defensive metrics and the fans; Betancourt is a terrible defensive SS, perhaps the worst everyday SS. He's hit .300/.286/.350 over the last 7 days? Super.

[The Truth]

Fielder is probably better than Yuni, though he's well below average.

With all due respect (you are one of my favorite posters here) I cannot wrap my mind around Fielder being better than Yuni in the field. Fielder, I think, is the worst defensive player on the team and one of the worst in the division (Carlos Lee comes to mind as someone worse)

[rluzinski]

Fielder is probably better than Yuni, though he's well below average.

With all due respect (you are one of my favorite posters here) I cannot wrap my mind around Fielder being better than Yuni in the field. Fielder, I think, is the worst defensive player on the team and one of the worst in the division (Carlos Lee comes to mind as someone worse)

Relative to the average defender at their respective positions, I believe Fielder is better. In an absolute sense, every SS in the league is probably better than any first basemen.

[dlk9s]

The problem is the Phillies and Braves and Giants got exponentially better.

Define "exponentially."

[rluzinski]

I agree with others that I was fine with melvin's moves but fear that RR is going to mess it all up.

[Funketown]

Melvin got the club a competent player who can replace McGehee and Betancourt 5-6 times a week. Now Melvin just needs to tell Ron Roenicke that Jerry Hairston Jr. is meant to play baseball.

[The Truth]

Relative to the average defender at their respective positions, I believe Fielder is better. In an absolute sense, every SS in the league is probably better than any first basemen.

I'd have to really think about that one. I suppose there are quite a few poor fielding 1B's in MLB

[rluzinski]

I'm getting the feeling that Hairston will platoon in CF and get the occasional start at 3B, SS and 2B. That does not make me happy.

[brettac1]

I agree with others that I was fine with melvin's moves but fear that RR is going to mess it all up.

Yes. I'd bet Hairston gets fewer than 10 starts at SS.

[strawbossisevil]

There is clearly something to players having a good stretch of games where they are seeing the ball well.

I've pointed this out about 100 times over the last 9 years but there is very little evidence that batters who are "hot" continue to perform over their expected performance level. It's 99% statistical noise. Same goes for cold streaks. An excel batter gets hot all the time as well. I'm sure there are times where cold streaks are real but good luck determining when.

Yuni has an updated ZiPS projection of .265/.289/.398. There is also a clear consensus among scouts, advanced defensive metrics and the fans; Betancourt is a terrible defensive SS, perhaps the worst everyday SS. He's hit .300/.286/.350 over the last 7 days? Super.

I know you´ve said this and made this point before, but I don´t buy it. Just about every major leager I´ve heard speak, says sometimes they go through periods where they see the ball better, and other times they go through periods where they don´t. So clearly, if a player is seeing the ball better, that is a time to leave him in.

Some of these things just can´t be categorically slotted away in your statistical boxes. You make these players out to be robots, they aren´t. They are human beings who go through ups and downs.

No one is saying he isn´t bad defensively. But even in many of his outs lately, they have been smoked. Like that play to Barmes today. That was likely a double to the wall that was taken away by a gold glove caliber play. Just watching the games you´ll have noticed a difference in his approach and how he is hitting. Now that could go back to his pop ups tomorrow. You keep an eye out for that, and when it happens you begin to platoon him with JHJ. Simple as that.

 

JHJ is a great addition to our team, and I hope he gets a lot of the starts at SS going forward when Betancourt begins to hit as he did in May again. But with the way Betancourt has been smoking the ball, I don´t blame RRR for starting him today. It turned out really well for the Brewers. Betancourt had 2 of the Brewers 5 RBIs, and he could have had more had Barmes not robbed him.

In addition as was stated on the broadcast JHJ is coming off of a hand injury. I guess it would probably be wise to ease an older player like him into the lineup. Honestly, our bigger problem today wasn´t SS, it was Counsell playing 3B.