Craig Counsell needs to move to the coaching staff and off active roster (Hitless streak snapped, reply #105)

[JohnBriggs12]

Craig is basically a coach at this point. I think we should keep him around for the stretch run. Hopefully his next AB is a Counsell CRUSH!

No he's not. You don't see him sitting and talking to other infielders, all of whom are veterans and don't really need his "guidance". He's not talking to Roenicke during a game discussing strategy. What coaching is he doing?

 

He's taking up a valuable roster spot that should be someone else's,

 

[JoeHova]

The notable thing about the current record holder, Bill Bergen, is that he is commonly considered the worst hitter of all-time (that and the fact that his brother was a major leaguer as well as an insane axe murderer who killed his wife and children one off-season).

[monty57]

Now it seems like everyone just wants him to break the record so he will retire and he can be replaced.

 

Now that he's 0-for-45 I hope he retires today. He probably never thought it would get to this point, but he can't want to go down in history for this record. The Brewers for some reason won't cut him, so the only way we can get someone who could help the team onto the roster would be for Counsell to retire.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I can't for the life of me fathom why Counsell is still the first lefty off the bench. It's mind boggling. PH with Craig Counsell, use Jerry Hairston as a defensive replacement. It's hard to even wrap the head around something like that.

[yoshii8]

He saw Hairston make a nice play in spring training a few years ago.

[Invader3K]

Now that he's 0-for-45 I hope he retires today.

Nice thought. He is probably going to have to be forced into retirement, but Melvin and Roenicke like him to much to have that talk.

[RockCoCougars]

I can't for the life of me fathom why Counsell is still the first lefty off the bench. It's mind boggling. PH with Craig Counsell, use Jerry Hairston as a defensive replacement. It's hard to even wrap the head around something like that.

Heck, I'd rather use Jerry Narron as the first lefty off the bench, and I'm not joking. He hasn't played in 24 years, so he should be 'due'.

[adambr2]

Multiple times in the last couple of week, Roenicke has been raving about Counsell's D.

 

Now, Counsell is a nice defensive player, not elite, but good. But it's funny seeing how the the worse he hits, the more Roenicke starts talking about him like he's Ozzie Guillen.

[JohnBriggs12]

Roenicke has a misguided soft spot in his heart for guys that are anemic hitters late in their careers. The reason for that may be Roenicke's own failures as a hitter, especially has his career wound down.

 

Roenicke hit .167 for the Phillies in 1987, yet somehow he convinced the Reds to sign him the following year where he hit a "Counsell-like" .135. Of course the Reds only kept him around for 14 games that year before assigning him to AAA where he hit a robust .215. He must still have it in his mind that he had value that the Reds didn't pick up on.

 

Does anyone really by the "clubhouse thing" either? Are you telling me the clubhouse would fall apart if a .145 hitter were released? He's not a team leader. You can't lead when you don't perform on the field. Keeping him around as some sort of relic is ludicrous.

[topper09er]

Counsell came in to pinch run as the tying run in extra innings and doesn't even attempt a steal???? Matt Holliday stole a base and Counsell cant even go? Now he is so worthless he cant even pinch run. Since he obviously isn't going anywhere because he is the ideal RRR bench player (veteran, gritty, scrappy, clubhouse leader, horrible player) the real question is if they will actually use a playoff roster spot on him, which I believe must be submitted on Sept. 1 right?

[rwa12]

This is not a post defending Counsell, but rather defending veteran presence. As none of us are in the clubhouse, we have no idea of the effect. Maybe Kotsay gives the guys tips he's learned. Maybe Counsell farts at meeting to keep the mood light. The Red Sox put together their Cowboy up Series team by finding personalities that meshed, along with talent. Counsell should get no real playing time, and I agree that he is better suited to a bench coach role at this point, but I'm tiring of the feelings that are rampant on this board that personality counts for nothing. This isn't stat-o-matic baseball. There is a human element that can't be ignored. There is a reason that these guys are signed year after year, they bring something to the table. It may not be measurable to the fan, but most every team has someone like this.

You don't have to be an All-Star to be a clubhouse leader. On a much lower level, I played NAIA college basketball at the age of 27, I played 2 minutes a game, and was well past my prime. Our coach couldn't figure out why all the kids listened to me, and rallied behind me. They had a level of respect for me, regardless of talent level, because even if I wasn't great, they saw the level of effort being given. Could be the same thing with CC.

[pitchleague]

Counsell came in to pinch run as the tying run in extra innings and doesn't even attempt a steal???? Matt Holliday stole a base and Counsell cant even go? Now he is so worthless he cant even pinch run. Since he obviously isn't going anywhere because he is the ideal RRR bench player (veteran, gritty, scrappy, clubhouse leader, horrible player) the real question is if they will actually use a playoff roster spot on him, which I believe must be submitted on Sept. 1 right?

I don't think the purpose of Counsell pinch running in that situation was to steal bases but to get some faster legs in case a ball was hit into the gap.

 

The mistake was not running Morgan after getting HBP with no Molina behind the plate.

[topper09er]

This is not a post defending Counsell, but rather defending veteran presence. As none of us are in the clubhouse, we have no idea of the effect. Maybe Kotsay gives the guys tips he's learned. Maybe Counsell farts at meeting to keep the mood light. The Red Sox put together their Cowboy up Series team by finding personalities that meshed, along with talent. Counsell should get no real playing time, and I agree that he is better suited to a bench coach role at this point, but I'm tiring of the feelings that are rampant on this board that personality counts for nothing. This isn't stat-o-matic baseball. There is a human element that can't be ignored. There is a reason that these guys are signed year after year, they bring something to the table. It may not be measurable to the fan, but most every team has someone like this.

You don't have to be an All-Star to be a clubhouse leader. On a much lower level, I played NAIA college basketball at the age of 27, I played 2 minutes a game, and was well past my prime. Our coach couldn't figure out why all the kids listened to me, and rallied behind me. They had a level of respect for me, regardless of talent level, because even if I wasn't great, they saw the level of effort being given. Could be the same thing with CC.

Then put him on the fake DL, that way he can claim the reason he has gone 0-45 is because he had some "lingering issue," we can replace him with someone that can hit the ball out of the infield and he can suit up and remain as a clubhouse leader

[monty57]

This is not a post defending Counsell, but rather defending veteran presence. As none of us are in the clubhouse, we have no idea of the effect. Maybe Kotsay gives the guys tips he's learned. Maybe Counsell farts at meeting to keep the mood light. The Red Sox put together their Cowboy up Series team by finding personalities that meshed, along with talent. Counsell should get no real playing time, and I agree that he is better suited to a bench coach role at this point, but I'm tiring of the feelings that are rampant on this board that personality counts for nothing. This isn't stat-o-matic baseball. There is a human element that can't be ignored. There is a reason that these guys are signed year after year, they bring something to the table. It may not be measurable to the fan, but most every team has someone like this.

You don't have to be an All-Star to be a clubhouse leader. On a much lower level, I played NAIA college basketball at the age of 27, I played 2 minutes a game, and was well past my prime. Our coach couldn't figure out why all the kids listened to me, and rallied behind me. They had a level of respect for me, regardless of talent level, because even if I wasn't great, they saw the level of effort being given. Could be the same thing with CC.

I hear what you're saying, and a few years ago with this team I might have agreed. Now, however, there really aren't any young players other than Lucroy on the roster. Pretty much everyone on the team would be able to provide "veteran leadership" on other teams.

 

 

[Raw Biz]

This is not a post defending Counsell, but rather defending veteran presence. As none of us are in the clubhouse, we have no idea of the effect. Maybe Kotsay gives the guys tips he's learned. Maybe Counsell farts at meeting to keep the mood light. The Red Sox put together their Cowboy up Series team by finding personalities that meshed, along with talent.

If that's why he's on the team, I'll take his roster spot for the league minimum. And I'll fart during games too.

[razzzorsharp]

Was at the in-laws last night and my FIL talked about how the Brewers needed CC because of his championship experience scoffing at the 0-45 streak saying they will need him in the postseason.

 

I politely disagreed but didn't pursue an argument about it.

[Invader3K]

razzzorsharp, yeah, some people still buy into "playoff experience" and past championships meaning anything in sports. I think it's one of those silly sports talk euphemisms that will never go away.

[GB12]

Craig Counsell was featured on the Colbert Report tonight for his hitless streak. A clip should be up on the website by tomorrow.

[istanbultaye]

razzzorsharp, yeah, some people still buy into "playoff experience" and past championships meaning anything in sports. I think it's one of those silly sports talk euphemisms that will never go away.

I buy into "Playoff experience"... IF, and ONLY IF ...the two players that could be on the roster would be identical in every other way.

[Invader3K]

razzzorsharp, yeah, some people still buy into "playoff experience" and past championships meaning anything in sports. I think it's one of those silly sports talk euphemisms that will never go away.

I buy into "Playoff experience"... IF, and ONLY IF ...the two players that could be on the roster would be identical in every other way.

Fair point. Hard to see how Craig's World Series experience from a decade ago would mean anything today.

[rluzinski]

razzzorsharp, yeah, some people still buy into "playoff experience" and past championships meaning anything in sports. I think it's one of those silly sports talk euphemisms that will never go away.

I buy into "Playoff experience"... IF, and ONLY IF ...the two players that could be on the roster would be identical in every other way.

Agreed. That kind of stuff is great for tiebreakers but that's about it.

[JohnBriggs12]

Was at the in-laws last night and my FIL talked about how the Brewers needed CC because of his championship experience scoffing at the 0-45 streak saying they will need him in the postseason.

 

I politely disagreed but didn't pursue an argument about it.

No offense but I'm assuming your FIL is in my generation (I'm about to turn 59), so please don't equate that type of thinking to age. Most of us boomers see Counsel has no value whatsoever. We understand the aging process and realize Counsell is done as a player.

 

BTW, I understand Yogi Berra and Reggie Jackson are available. If I were to guess, I think both are capable of matching Counsell's last 45 ABs, but I'd hate to sell Reggie short, as he'd probably still have a hit or two.

[BrewerBrent]

Stephen Colbert did a bit on Counsell's hitless streak. Too good to not pass along:

 

http://www.brewcrewball.c...ig-counsells-near-record

[RockCoCougars]

BTW, I understand Yogi Berra and Reggie Jackson are available. If I were to guess, I think both are capable of matching Counsell's last 45 ABs, but I'd hate to sell Reggie short, as he'd probably still have a hit or two.

 

I want Whitey Ford has the vet presence/LOOGY. World Series? Been there, done that.

[pitchleague]

I don't watch the Colbert Report, but I know the guy is funny. That video was hilarious. Thanks for posting!