Craig Counsell needs to move to the coaching staff and off active roster (Hitless streak snapped, reply #105)

[BillScottCanRake]

I´ve traveled quite a bit myself, and I´ve never found my nights in hotels to be any less restful than nights in my own bed. I think, if anything, spending your night in your house rather than a hotel is more emotionally satisfying, going back to emotions.

 

That's interesting, because in my experience the opposite is true. I've done a fair amount of traveling and it almost always takes me a night or two in a hotel room (or staying with relatives, for that matter) before I sleep nearly as well as I do at home. I have always found sleeping in my own bed one of the more enjoyable parts of returning from a trip.

 

If I had to guess I'd say that there are a decent number of players who don't have any problems with staying in hotels, a fair number like me who do, and plenty who fall in the middle.

[Oxy]

I think "mental state" is a better term than "emotions." It has more to do with being able to focus better when you are comfortable with your surroundings and able to go about your normal routines without having to think about and remember things like "what's my hotel room #? Where is the coffee shop? when is breakfast served? When is the bus to the ballpark?, etc. etc. etc." When you are on the road and out of your normal environment, part of your mind is occupied by a lot of stuff that can be a distraction. When at home, all of those things are pretty much completely routine and one can more easily focus on baseball (or basketball or football or whatever).

 

I think that college basketball is the only environment that the crowd truly plays a major factor in the energy and emotions of the players (and more significantly the officials) during the game.

[strawbossisevil]

Except there are a few things to factor in. 1) Most players do not call the city that they play in home. They may have a flat somewhere, but it is only a place where they stay for 80 days out of the year when they have home games. It may be more "home" than a hotel room, but not much. 2) They travel for a living. They go here, there, and everywhere, and they've all been doing it for years. I imagine that it doesn't much matter where they are, falling asleep will be equally hard or easy.

 

As far as the travel time. It could easily be shown how traveling effects winning. What is the winning percentage of the home team when both teams have to travel to get to the game? versus What is the winning percentage of the home team when only the visiting team had to travel the night before? Find out the difference, and then you'll be able to see if there is anything to the travel argument or not.

 

I still think the biggest impact is positive vs. negative reinforcement and its effect on the human emotions. Science has shown it to be the case. Not saying that traveling and staying in hotels couldn't play a small role as well, but I think the emotions play the far greater role.

Another strike against it being primarily traveling would be soccer results in a country like England that is small, and requires little traveling. Yet, in evenly matched games, the home team almost always wins. I think so many on this site want the players to be like robots that aren't capable of having their play altered by emotion, or like to downplay the effect fans do have on the game. There is a lot of science as to why that simply is incorrect.

[monty57]

I think there are too many factors to really say any one thing is "the reason." Plus everyone's different, and react to things differently. Some players like to be booed on the road. Some players go out drinking all night when they're on the road. Some players go out drinking all night when they're at home. Some players have a family that they miss when they're on the road. Some players have young children who don't let them sleep at night when they're at home.

 

There are some obvious cases of home field advantage, such as football where the fans are so loud the opposing team can't hear the cadence, or the rumor that the Twins used to turn the fans on when the opposing team was up to bat and off when the Twins were up to bat.

 

As far as Counsell, I just chalk it up to age finally catching up to him. He's in an historically bad slump, so he's probably getting some emotions building up as well, but he was hitting as poorly when he was 0-for-1 as he is when he's 0-for-two months. He's not hitting on the road the same as he's not hitting at home.

[TheCrew07]

I for one sleep horribly in hotels, I'm up every hour almost on the dot from when I fall asleep. It's horrible and one of the reasons I rarely overnight for work unless I have to or can go out drinking which helps.

[JohnBriggs12]

Part of being "done" is not being able to overcome what professional athletes have to deal with. Travel is part of the game.

 

Counsell is done. Release him, eat his remaining salary.

[danzig6767]

It's more likely a mix of everything.

 

Being on a homestand you don't have to travel multiple times like on a road trip. You get to sleep in your own bed. You often are able to be with your family if you have one. Then you also get to play in your home park with your fans cheering for you. All things combine to make playing at home more likely to result in winning.

[DougJones43]

Mercy.

[RockCoCougars]

Unfortunately, it looks like he's going to get the record on the road...

[adambr2]

He's only 2 AB's away now. Just DFA him now and avoid embarrassing him and the organization.

[istanbultaye]

If I was on the verge of the record myself, I'd want to keep going. Records were made to be broken! (I'm pretty weird though).

 

Personally, I think Craig is just wanting to prove how clutch he is, by waiting until the fateful at bat in which he would tie the record, and hit a walk off home run. Of course, the walkoff part would be tough on the road...

[adambr2]

If I was on the verge of the record myself, I'd want to keep going. Records were made to be broken! (I'm pretty weird though).

 

Personally, I think Craig is just wanting to prove how clutch he is, by waiting until the fateful at bat in which he would tie the record, and hit a walk off home run. Of course, the walkoff part would be tough on the road...

Well, ideally he will not continue getting AB's anyway, since he shouldn't be starting under any circumstances and his bench bat is arguably less valuable than 60% of our rotation.

 

Seriously, if Counsell still has a place on this team, we may as well fill our entire bench with strictly defensive specialists and use Gallardo, Greinke, and Wolf as our pinch-hitters.

[brwrsfan]

If Counsell is going to remain in the roster, he should almost never get any at bats at this point unless he comes up in a route, or in an extra inning game and we're out of players. If they want him for his defense, that's fine, then only put him in as a defensive replacement (though I'm not sure I even buy this), but he shouldn't be starting any more or getting any meaningful at bats at this point.

 

Of the guys on our bench, he should be last in line. As mentioned above, I'd actually rather have Yo or Greinke PH before Counsell at this point.

[Raw Biz]

If Counsell is going to remain in the roster, he should almost never get any at bats at this point unless he comes up in a route, or in an extra inning game and we're out of players. If they want him for his defense, that's fine, then only put him in as a defensive replacement (though I'm not sure I even buy this), but he shouldn't be starting any more or getting any meaningful at bats at this point.

 

Of the guys on our bench, he should be last in line. As mentioned above, I'd actually rather have Yo or Greinke PH before Counsell at this point.

Like route 66 on the way to St. Louis?

[RockCoCougars]

As I said above, I bet we don't see him again until the weekend. Unfortunately the fans in PNC will get to see the hometown boy make history.... doesn't seem fair.

 

EDIT: I mean Minute Maid. For some reason, this upcoming schedule is throwing me for loops.

 

At the same time, I do have to give him props for his defense on Weds. and the DP yesterday. He did most likely 'save' a few runs.

[monty57]

When Counsell's in the box I get images from the Bad News Bears where they tell the kid to take one for the team. The kid jumps in front of a fastball down the middle of the plate and gets drilled in the back before limping off to first. I'm beginning to believe that this is the only way Counsell can have any positive offensive value going forward. C'mon Craig, take one for the team.

[RockCoCougars]

When Counsell's in the box I get images from the Bad News Bears where they tell the kid to take one for the team. The kid jumps in front of a fastball down the middle of the plate and gets drilled in the back before limping off to first. I'm beginning to believe that this is the only way Counsell can have any positive offensive value going forward. C'mon Craig, take one for the team.

I believe that the only time Counsel has been on base in the past 5-6 weeks was thanks to a HBP. What about Roger Dorn? At least Craig isn't giving us any of that 'ole bull' in the field.

[Invader3K]

The thing with Counsell is that while his defense is still quite good, an all glove & no bat utility infielder has essentially no value to this team at this point. Especially when you have Wilson and Hairston on the the team now. He should basically be the last option off the bench at this point, which means he should be DFAed or talked into early retirement. If he sets the club O-for AB record, it's just going to be sad and pathetic that he's still on the roster of a 1st place team.

[Pudster13]

After popping out in today's pinch hit appearance, Craig Counsell has now gone 0 for his last 45 at bats.

His last hit was on June 10th vs. the Cards. He happened to go 3 for 3 in that game.

After doing a little research at the local library, I found this little fact.

The major league record for most consecutive at bats without a hit for a position player is 46 by Bill Bergen, as a member of the 1909 Brooklyn Dodgers.

The record for a pitcher held by former Milwaukee Brave, Bob Buhl. His record is 88 consecutive AB without a hit.

Here's to Craig getting a pinch hit walk-off hit vs. the Cardinals tomorrow night!

[razzzorsharp]

He has been putting such good wood on the ball, who would have thought.

[Raw Biz]

I thought everyone on here was already aware of the record. I think we started talking about it when he was like 0-30 and people were just joking but they didn't seriously think he could go 0 for another 16. Now it seems like everyone just wants him to break the record so he will retire and he can be replaced.

[stoutdude04]

There is already a CC thread talking about his lack of hitting.

[pebadger]

If somebody gets a walk-off hit with Counsell on deck at 0-45, will that somebody get booed like Rick Manning?

[pitchleague]

pedbadger, that's too funny. I really did LOL when I read that.

 

I would guess the Brewers might keep Counsell until at least his bobblehead day in 2 weeks. That sucks.

 

At least his glove and his legs still work pretty well.

[Mr QL]

Craig is basically a coach at this point. I think we should keep him around for the stretch run. Hopefully his next AB is a Counsell CRUSH!