Did Corey Hart get old fast?

[Hammer]

This is a topic that has been burning me for quite some time this year. Hart was previously one of the fastest players on the team. This year, he seems to have lost one or two steps. So Bfan, is it age or heavy pockets that have slowed him? Did he age quicker than normal (tall guy, long muscles that have tightened up) or are his post-contract, heavy pockets sapping his drive to hustle like a contract/arbitration year player?

[1992casey]

I read somewhere that a player's speed peaks at age 23, meaning that I wouldn't be surprised to see some decline in that area at this point.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I remember thinking when Hart was a 20 stolen base guy and the 'fastest guy on the team' back 4-5 years ago that there was no way his speed was going to age well. Big, lanky guys like that, I suspect, aren't ever going to age well in the speed category.

[JohnBriggs12]

Weeks isn't as fast as he was either. Distance runners peak in their early 30's. Sprinters peak in their early 20's.

 

To me Hart is better off running less. He's a better hitter when he's hitting for power. For a while he thought of himself more as a speed guy and he didn't drive the ball enough.

[dlk9s]

I think part of the perception is simply the way he looks. Tall, lanky guys never look like they are running fast/hard, even if they are. That's not to say that he hasn't slowed down, but part of it, in my opinion, is just perception.

[davemakovec]

He's also attempting steals a whole lot less. You never see him showing off his speed, so it's easy to think he's slowed down. Whether he has or not, I have no idea.

[pebadger]

I have thought Hart has been losing a step for a couple of years. I've noticed it more in his outfield defense than anything. Coming in he is still fine. There have been ohter times when people have thought he looked lazy out there when he failed to get to balls that I attribute to losing a step (and not being an especially good route-runner either).

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't think he's nearly as fast as he used to be, and I think he's done a nice job of not running into a lot of outs wishing he was still a burner. I really like Hart as a complementary player; he's developed pretty well as a hitter since his flailing struggles.

[RockCoCougars]

I think he's lost a little speed, but he still looks like a huge 'steal' when you consider the contract that Jayson Freaking Werth got.

[pebadger]

Agreed with the two previous posts. Hart is what he is, and that's a pretty solid everyday player. Guys like him are underrated by fans in the grand scheme of things. They make up the backbone of good teams.

[logan82]

Agreed with the two previous posts. Hart is what he is, and that's a pretty solid everyday player. Guys like him are underrated by fans in the grand scheme of things. They make up the backbone of good teams.

Guys like Hart can be replaced by a decent OF platoon. Especially when you take his below average defense into account.

[DHonks]

Hart now seems to have well below average speed and range. He never beats out grounders anymore, he rarely gets to flyballs (although this is possibly because of bad jumps because he doesn't wear contacts like he's supposed to.

 

I'd love to unload his contract before it becomes an albatross. I think Gindl or komatsu could come close to matching his overall contributions (offensive and defensive) for a small fraction of his salary.

[bucksman4]

Hart now seems to have well below average speed and range. He never beats out grounders anymore, he rarely gets to flyballs (although this is possibly because of bad jumps because he doesn't wear contacts like he's supposed to.

 

I'd love to unload his contract before it becomes an albatross. I think Gindl or komatsu could come close to matching his overall contributions (offensive and defensive) for a small fraction of his salary.

Agreed. He might be the trading chip we need this off-season when we want to fill the 3B and/or SS position. Hopefully he has a good second half and put up some eye-catching numbers for potential suitors. I think he's peaked and its not to say he isn't a good player, I just think if you trade him now, the Brewers will have received the "best years" of his career.

[rluzinski]

I'd love to unload his contract before it becomes an albatross. I think Gindl or komatsu could come close to matching his overall contributions (offensive and defensive) for a small fraction of his salary.

Did he get signed to some huge deal when I wasn't looking? He has two year remaining on his contact after this year. He'll get $9 mil in 2012 and $10 mil in 2013. He's probably a little above average overall and that's what a guy like that gets paid on the open market. If the Brewers have a prearby guy who could approach that level of production, great. Otherwise, I have little issue with that contract.

[Funketown]

I agree that it's an overstatement to call Hart's contract an albatross. Even if he is just an average player, paying $19 million over two years is not bad.

 

I'm okay with what Hart is: A mediocre outfielder with decent pop. He's a nice piece to this team.

[DHonks]

He's definitely mediocre. I used to think he was our best overall hitter about three years ago but now I fail to see his value. He does nothing well and few things average. I'd happily move him in the right deal to dramatically upgrade our defense, obp, save money, and/or upgrade at ss

[HiAndTight]

I think part of the perception is simply the way he looks. Tall, lanky guys never look like they are running fast/hard, even if they are. That's not to say that he hasn't slowed down, but part of it, in my opinion, is just perception.

I absolutely could not agree more.

 

He's never looked fast, so when the SB totals come down, it's easy to go with the "he's aged fast," line of thinking.

 

I don't think he's as fast as he was, but I still think he's speed is well above average.

[KCBrewerfan34]

We can't pay afford to pay $10 million on a mediocre player. In this market you need to be buying exceptional players for that and mix in cheaper players, when a large salary player doesn't perform it just kills this model.

 

With that being said I have no problem looking at what's out there on the trade market if it improves us but if you trade Hart then you need to fill RF.

[HiAndTight]

Weeks isn't as fast as he was either. Distance runners peak in their early 30's. Sprinters peak in their early 20's.

 

To me Hart is better off running less. He's a better hitter when he's hitting for power. For a while he thought of himself more as a speed guy and he didn't drive the ball enough.

I don't ever think Hart intentionally sacrificed power because he thought of himself as a speed guy. In his two 23 SB seasons, he slugged .539 and .459.

[monty57]

I don't think Hart is overpaid. Actually, since the Werth contract, he's probably signed to a good deal. However, he is replaceable, and once the Brewers' brass feels that one of our minor leaguers is ready, Hart should have good trade value.

 

It's reasonable to believe that he could have lost a step as he's gotten older, especially considering he's added qutie a bit of muscle weight. Some of the perception might be that were seeing him next to guys like Gomez and Morgan instead of Brady Clark and Geoff Jenkins.

[dlk9s]

On a somewhat related tangent, can we all stop calling outfielders, particularly corner outfielders, lazy whenever it looks like they aren't running full out to field a ball? Usually I read these comments when a ball is hit into the corner for extra bases.

 

People need to realize that players usually have a good feel for where the ball is going to end up, how long it's going to take to get to the ball, and how fast the runner is. When we see a ball hit to the wall and the fielder slows down on his approach, it's not because he doesn't care, it's because a) if he stays in all out sprint, he'll overrun the ball, b) if he stays in an all out sprint and doesn't overrun the ball, he'll likely be in an awkward position to cleanly pick it up and make a throw, and c) he knows that the runner will not go for a triple, even with the extra half second he is taking to get to the ball.

 

When the hitter has really good speed or it's hit in such a place where a triple is very possible, we don't see fielders let up.

[whizkid]

Maybe people have their own definition of mediocre but according to Webster it means of moderate or low quality. To me it means average.

 

There are 28 players in the NL with 275 PAs and an OPS over .800. Corey is 28th currently at .808. That's less than 2 per team on average. The Brewers have 4. An .808 OPS doesn't strike me as moderate or low quality or average.

 

I think maybe some are stuck in the 1990s or early 2000s where an .800 OPS was a lot more common than it is in the last couple years. Corey isn't a star but he's certainly a nice and valuable complementary piece IMO. IMO he's also adequate defensively for a corner outfielder. I sometimes think people watch web gems too much and think other team's players are making those kinds of plays all the time.

[TooLiveBrew]

The other thing to factor in is that, while you can probably find an .800 OPS from a platoon, getting it from one player gives you more roster flexibility. So you can give significant plate appearances to the suck that is Mark Kotsay... wait a second...

[Funketown]

whizkid, I think that's accurate. This season, his wRC+ is 121; he has been an above average hitter this season and his defense is probably slightly below average but not bad. I think people are overestimating Gindl, if he becomes the type of player Corey Hart has been I will be very happy with him.

[logan82]

The other thing to factor in is that, while you can probably find an .800 OPS from a platoon, getting it from one player gives you more roster flexibility. So you can give significant plate appearances to the suck that is Mark Kotsay... wait a second...

Is that flexibility worth $9-10m a year? I think we could have brought up a couple AAA guys to platoon at a fraction of the cost of Hart and used the money somewhere else to improve the roster. I think that would have improved our RF defense.

 

I have no explanation for Kotsay at this point. He stinks. He needs to go. We should bring up either Boggs or some other AAA player that can hit left handed.