The Bring up Taylor Green Thread

[homer]

It's kind of a lot of pressure for a rookie to be thrown into a pennant race. Not to mention he'd be replacing/platooning with a veteran who has been around a few years. Not sure how much this all matters but it's worth considering.

[The Truth]

I don't put a ton of stock in AAA batting stats. Its true there are some great pitchers in AAA but you are also facing alot of Tim Dillard/Sean Green AAAA types there. Journeymen pitchers who aren't quite good enough to make an MLB roster but are organizational filler and backups "just in case". AA hitting stats are more telling and in AA Taylor Green hit .260 with a .773 OPS

[monty57]

It's kind of a lot of pressure for a rookie to be thrown into a pennant race.

 

The counter arguement would be that it's a lot of pressure on our pitching staff knowing we have bad defense on the left half of the field, and knowing the black holes in our lineup will keep the team from scoring as many runs as we could. Just being in the majors is a lot of pressure. I doubt the pennant race part is going to add that much more. If a player can't take pressure, he probably shouldn't be considered much of a prospect.

 

I don't put a ton of stock in AAA batting stats. Its true there are some great pitchers in AAA but you are also facing alot of Tim Dillard/Sean Green AAAA types there. Journeymen pitchers who aren't quite good enough to make an MLB roster but are organizational filler and backups "just in case". AA hitting stats are more telling and in AA Taylor Green hit .260 with a .773 OPS

 

There's a good possibility that Green's down year was at least partially due to lingering wrist issues. There is certainly no reason to believe that he will immediately be a .900+ OPS guy in the majors, but with the way McGehee's played, it would be an upgrade if Green could hit like Jason Kendall (in his Brewers years) and play average defense.

[endaround]

I don't put a ton of stock in AAA batting stats. Its true there are some great pitchers in AAA but you are also facing alot of Tim Dillard/Sean Green AAAA types there. Journeymen pitchers who aren't quite good enough to make an MLB roster but are organizational filler and backups "just in case". AA hitting stats are more telling and in AA Taylor Green hit .260 with a .773 OPS

Pitching in AAA is better than AA. Talent is better in AAA then AA. Yes there are more prospect in AA but that's because they haven't failed at AA yet.

[CheeseheadInIllinois]

I don't put a ton of stock in AAA batting stats. Its true there are some great pitchers in AAA but you are also facing alot of Tim Dillard/Sean Green AAAA types there. Journeymen pitchers who aren't quite good enough to make an MLB roster but are organizational filler and backups "just in case". AA hitting stats are more telling and in AA Taylor Green hit .260 with a .773 OPS

On the other hand, seasons such as the one Taylor Green is having don't happen that often for Brewers minor leaguers. Since 2005, I believe only two players at Nashville have posted .900+ OPS seasons (min 50 games) their first time in AAA. Both recently started the All-Star game. Only three did it in their second go around (Hart, Cruz, Heether), and Cruz and Heether barely squeaked over the mark while thus far Green is topping .950 despite a slow start.

 

I'm not saying that Green is going to be a star, but AAAA-type players haven't had this type of success in their first AAA season, at least not in Nashville. Whether he could succeed right away coming up in the middle of a pennant race is another story, but personally I'd be in favor of giving him a shot.

[FoxyFoxes]

I just always thought the talent was greater in AA than AAA. As for the Green thing I bet we see him if Doug Melvin can't make a trade for an established 3b . I predict August 3-4 for him to come up.

[theavrock]

People were saying don't worry DM will correct this before the AS break, then it was after the AS break, now its August. What is it that DM knows that no one else seems to know? This move should have been made a month ago.

 

If they give up anything of value in a trade for a 3rd baseman when Green is destroying AAA I will be very upset. You have an option in house and that move should be made.

 

Maybe the talent is better in AA or maybe it is better in AAA. Either way McGehee has been performing at historically awful levels all season. Just about anyone would be better at this point and is there anyone out there that thinks Green can't post a .600+ OPS right now?

[joepepsi]

I think it's clear the organization would rather acquire a mediocre veteran from another team than plug Green in at 3rd this year.

 

In fact, if Gamel really has been playing 3rd since his demotion, it's more likely he's the second option if they can't find a slob from another team. Gamel either makes the team next Opening Day or will be out of the organization. So, perhaps they'd rather move him up in a couple weeks and get him some regular major league at bats. Then they'll take a long look at Green next Spring.

[pebadger]

Sad, but I think true, joepepsi.

 

Let's look at some of the practical considerations involved here. If they are going to bring Green in, Tuesday would be a great time to do it. They are at home, which is probably preferable to being on the road in terms of bringing in a rookie. They are also starting a stretch of seemingly manageable opponents before facing the Cards to end the homestand.

 

On the other hand, if Melvin is looking outside the organization for a 3B, it's doubtful they bring him up prior to the deadline. Once August starts, if you bring him up almost every game is high pressure situation with the exception of the series in Houston at teh end of the first week in August. Other than that may be the best time to bring him in would be the start of the 4 game series with the Dodgers in the middle of the month. But that doesn't give you a whole lot of time to evaluate him prior to the September call-up period anyway.

 

I just don't think a Green callup is in the offing. I don't even think a Gamel callup is in the offing. The prospect of playing 15 games in August with Yuni and Casey holding down the left side of the infield is almost terrifying. I guess we should just be happy that 8 of those games are at Miller Park.

[clancyphile]

Green is a different hitter than Gamel.

 

Green's more like Cirillo, in that he is a high-average hitter who draws walks and hits a lot of doubles.

 

Gamel is more of a poor man's Prince Fielder.

[Raw Biz]

All this pressure stuff is overrated. Like monty said, there's pressure just from being in the majors. Sure being in a pennant race is different than playing on a team 25 under .500 but you're still expected to perform no matter what. Give the kid a chance, I really don't see the harm. At worst, he's McGehee with a little better defense. And any upgrade at this point will help.

[TooLiveBrew]

Journeymen pitchers who aren't quite good enough to make an MLB roster but are organizational filler and backups "just in case". AA hitting stats are more telling and in AA Taylor Green hit .260 with a .773 OPS

 

That was the year ('10) after he'd had wrist surgery ('09) & posted an OPS of .687 at Huntsville. It was an encouraging sign that he was getting back on track; and now, one year later, he's beating up AAA pitching. Green is legit, he'd be outhitting & out-defending McGehee but Melvin seems infatuated with Casey.

[endaround]

There's also pressure in that you're 24, on the old side for a prospect, haven't gotten a 40 man spot yet and how well you do will determine if you'll end up making millions over your career or get very little and try to find a college coaching job somewhere.

[FVBrewerFan]

There's pressure just standing at the plate facing a pitcher. Whether it's Little League, AAA, or MLB. But some guys thrive under pressure, and you will never know until you try. Plus, the longer you wait there WILL be more pressure as the pennant race heats up. That's why this should be done now (a month ago really.) Let him get a bunch of starts under his belt before things really heat up in September.

[TooLiveBrew]

I think the transition from AAA to MLB needs to be put in context.

 

Lyle Overbay's OPS at AAA (as a 25-yo) in 2002 was .923. Prior to getting called up in '03, it was .898. When he got called up, he managed a .762 OPS in the bigs. That's just one comparison, but I can't wrap my head around people thinking Green has a magical barrier to smash through in order to be good enough to get a shot. He can hit, period. The pitching will be tougher, but the guy he'd be replacing hasn't shown a consistent ability to hit -- you could argue really ever, but I'll leave it at this season.

 

So just going off a really basic comparison (Overbay), some Brewers fans don't believe Taylor Green could come up & post a mid-.700s OPS & play significantly better defense than McGehee? I just don't get it; makes no sense to me. Matt Holliday's last full season MiLB slash line was .253/.313/.397/.708, as a 23-yo at AA Tulsa in '03 (the year after he posted a .766 OPS at the same level). The very next season ('04), his MLB OPS was .837.

 

Imo you just have to be able to understand that prospects are simply baseball players, just like big-leaguers are simply baseball players. I think fans too often get caught up with the term "prospect" or the concept of being a minor-leaguer. Almost every player starts as a minor-leaguer, but everyone's just a ballplayer. Taylor Green is a good one, & the chances of him coming up & falling flat on his face just realistically aren't all that overwhelming.

 

Brandon Allen, the D-Backs 1B who hit a ball close to 500' against the Brewers this past series, was recently called up from AAA. He sure seemed to be able to hit, turn in solid PAs, & generally play solidly at the big league level. It's too bad the Brewers are afraid that their prospects can't do the same.

[BrewCrewForever]

If Green doesn't get a chance this season, I kind of doubt he ever makes it to the bigs with the Brewers. He has been hot all year and we have a black hole at 3B. Why Doug has not made this move yet just blows my mind.

[TheCrew07]

I don't put a ton of stock in AAA batting stats. Its true there are some great pitchers in AAA but you are also facing alot of Tim Dillard/Sean Green AAAA types there. Journeymen pitchers who aren't quite good enough to make an MLB roster but are organizational filler and backups "just in case". AA hitting stats are more telling and in AA Taylor Green hit .260 with a .773 OPS

Pitching in AAA is better than AA. Talent is better in AAA then AA. Yes there are more prospect in AA but that's because they haven't failed at AA yet.

I'd agree that mostly ever every pitcher at AAA knows how to pitch, but from a talent perspective by this point of the season most of the MLB quality plus arms are already up in MLB. The pitching in AAA is a completely different style than AA, but I don't think it's necessarily better, maybe a slight step up at best. Outside of some of the young TB starting pitchers, I don't recall a single top prospect who's spent an entire season in AAA. It must have happened, the closest guy I can think of is Buchholz who bounced between MLB and AAA for a while... I still have trouble believing the BoSox were willing to move him, that would have been an epic blunder. A hitter who doesn't have good pitch recognition or struggles with breaking/off-speed pitches will likely struggle to adjust to the league for a while, but it's a league of fringe average to below average fastballs mixed with power arms who have never located effectively.

 

The hitting on the other hand is much better just to due to the type of players in AAA that round out the rosters. Look at the Nashville squad's position players... generally speaking they are quality depth type players or younger prospects blocked at the MLB level. You will find a couple of those depth guys down at AA as well, but not nearly as many as at AAA. It's much easier to be blocked as a position prospect than it is to be blocked as a pitcher, very few rotations are as good as TB and SF, and everyone's bullpen has somes holes in it. I think the jump to AAA is much tougher on pitchers than it is on the hitters.

 

[razzzorsharp]

Green at 2B tonight. Gamel at 3B.

[TooLiveBrew]

McGehee continuing to stink at the plate tonight. Green continuing to not. At least Casey made a couple of really nice defensive plays, I guess.

[DonMoney4Mgr]

I have heard RR asked about the possibility of a Green call up. He went on to say minor league numbers don't mean much, just look at Gamel. Personally, I think that's a lame excuse. I don't know what one has to do with the other. Some guys hit well in the minors and fail in the bigs. Others come up and hit right away. (See St. Louis)

[DougJones43]

I was hoping for a "better late than never" situation, but it looks like that isn't even going to happen. I'm really starting to think that management's stubbornness is going to ultimately be what gets in the way of this team making the playoffs, and if that's the case it's going to take me a long time to forgive that. The team just has too much talent at the top of the roster to let this foolishness continue to hold them back.

[clancyphile]

At the same time... the team is near the top of the NL Central, and this last road trip is going to be 5-6 at worst. Given the past road performance, it's pretty good.

 

Long-term I think both Gamel and Green will be contributors to the team - and I think that if Prince walks (almost a given), Gamel mans first, and Green mans third.

[The Truth]

They've got to do something. McGehee looks lost.

[giffted1]

If McGehee's lack of performance at the plate isn't enough to get him demoted, maybe his lack of effort will. It was absolutely pathetic last night when he got caught off third and didn't even force a throw. If he had tried any less he would have just laid down between third and home and awaited the tag.

 

It would be a fine time to make a change with a day off tomorrow. Hopefully Melvin makes the move despite Roenicke's wishes.

[Oldcity]

Bump. No reason this should be only sixth from the top of the page.