The Bring up Taylor Green Thread

[Hate those Rodents]

I'd be fine with bringing up Green and DFA'ing Wilson.

I actually think Wilson fits really well into Counsell's role next year. Maybe we could talk him into going down until September.

[jwill535]

I really think that if they had a compentant player at short that the move to bring up Green would have been made already. I also think they are trying to expand his game a bit(playing 2nd) in order to make him more valuable to the big league team.

[Raw Biz]

From Roenicke pre-game:

I told Roenicke about all the clamoring to bring up third baseman Taylor Green, who is hitting well at Class AAA Nashville. Green is hitting.314 with 13 homers and 54 RBI in 86 games but Roenicke noted that doesn't mean he'd do the same in the majors.

"It's completely different," said Roenicke. "Look at what Gamel did in the minors, and is still doing in the minors, and what he did here (.115 in 10 games). I know people get impatient but it's not the same."

 

Well for one, they are different players. Gamel has gotten a few chances while Green has gotten zero. Gamel also didn't get consistent ABs and he had to play games where he wasn't comfortable defensively. His approach definitely looked a lot better than .115 (he hit every ball hard his first few games but they just didn't find holes). The .115 doesn't tell the whole story with Gamel, there are just too many variables.

That article also talks about McGehee and Yuni looking better at the plate. Do they have special glasses they are wearing or something? They've raised their OPS about 15 points each this month, so McGehee is at .595 and Yuni at .629 now. They still look pretty bad to me, yesterday was an anomaly.

[Ayt]

That is right, RR. All players called up from AAA will struggle.

[theavrock]

Because X did Y, Z will do Y.

 

Can anyone point out the logical fallacy our manager is making?

 

Yeesh, I wish Doug would just make it easy on him and say Green is coming up Casey is going down. Deal with it.

[jwill535]

Well he does have history on his side, more often then not AAA players/first time major league players are going to struggle. Now if the person he would be replacing wasnt on par with what I would consider struggling by a call up, then this argument would some water.

 

Again, I really think they would rather get a vet in there over letting a player learn on the job. If this was last year, Casey would have been reading comics on the bus by now.

[logan82]

Can anyone point out the logical fallacy our manager is making?

Which one? The one where Gamel had bad results so he didn't do well or the one where because Gamel didn't have good results neither will a almost completely unrelated player.

[reillymcshane]

Saying green will struggle because Gamel did is friggin' moronic.

 

I mean, if he said they just aren't comfortable with a young guy like Green, okay. Or if he said young guys more often than not struggle first time up, and they don't want to risk that, okay. But this is just plain dumb.

 

Should we find a player that hit well when he came up to justify bringing up Green? That would be equally stupid.

 

The question should be can Green outplay McGehee? I say yes, but this excuse is plain lame.

[theavrock]

Can anyone point out the logical fallacy our manager is making?

Which one? The one where Gamel had bad results so he didn't do well or the one where because Gamel didn't have good results neither will a almost completely unrelated player.

Haha

Yes...

 

[derflotr]

RR's reasoning is pretty sound given that Gamel is a better hitter than Green. Just remove the anti-roenicke context twisting and it's actually feasible

[TheCrew]

Once again people on here are over analyzing what RR said - I really think he is just trying to say that just because a guy has success at AAA, doesn't mean he will have success at the MLB level.

 

Also, the decision to bring up Green would have to come from Melvin - not RR - shouldn't be pinned on him at all as he even alludes to the fact Doug makes the moves earlier in the interview. Reporter needs to step up and ask Doug Melvin why Taylor Green isn't up - not RR.

[theavrock]

Once again people on here are over analyzing what RR said - I really think he is just trying to say that just because a guy has success at AAA, doesn't mean he will have success at the MLB level.

 

Also, the decision to bring up Green would have to come from Melvin - not RR - shouldn't be pinned on him at all as he even alludes to the fact Doug makes the moves earlier in the interview. Reporter needs to step up and ask Doug Melvin why Taylor Green isn't up - not RR.

Yes and no. Someone a while back found a DM quote that essentially said that Ron has a lot of input in to the players he has on the 25 man. He mentioned that Doug makes the trades yes, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Ron had influence over calling players up/sending them down.

[Raw Biz]

Once again people on here are over analyzing what RR said - I really think he is just trying to say that just because a guy has success at AAA, doesn't mean he will have success at the MLB level.

But the point everyone is trying to make is he doesn't need to be an all-star. Success in this instance would be out-producing McGehee and his .595 OPS. I think Green could do that fairly easily. Also, didn't McGehee come up as a rookie and have success right away?

McGehee wasn't considered as good a prospect as Green. McGehee had a .760 OPS in AA and a .774 OPS in AAA before being called up. Green had .773 OPS in AA (while coming off a serious injury) and has a .931 OPS so far in AAA. I know OPS isn't the one and only stat but Green seems to have more power and get on base better than McGehee did in the minors. He also plays better defense. I also believe Green was a year younger than McGehee was at each level. The point is, Green should be able to outproduce McGehee from here on out. At least give the guy a shot. McGehee got his 2 years ago, Green should get his now.

 

[jwill535]

Casey wasnt brought up, he earned his way onto the roster out of ST and even then sat the bench till he forced the hand of the Brewers to play him more.

[ilovebeer]

If you are not going to bring him up where he could help, then trade him.

[TheCrew]

Yes and no. Someone a while back found a DM quote that essentially said that Ron has a lot of input in to the players he has on the 25 man. He mentioned that Doug makes the trades yes, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Ron had influence over calling players up/sending them down.

No doubt RR has some input - but at the end of the day, he doesn't make the decision. Melvin does.

 

Cherry picking a quote and trying to pin Green being stuck at AAA on RR is a big stretch.

[TheCrew]

But the point everyone is trying to make is he doesn't need to be an all-star. Success in this instance would be out-producing McGehee and his .595 OPS. I think Green could do that fairly easily. Also, didn't McGehee come up as a rookie and have success right away?

McGehee wasn't considered as good a prospect as Green. McGehee had a .760 OPS in AA and a .774 OPS in AAA before being called up. Green had .773 OPS in AA (while coming off a serious injury) and has a .931 OPS so far in AAA. I know OPS isn't the one and only stat but Green seems to have more power and get on base better than McGehee did in the minors. He also plays better defense. I also believe Green was a year younger than McGehee was at each level. The point is, Green should be able to outproduce McGehee from here on out. At least give the guy a shot. McGehee got his 2 years ago, Green should get his now.

 

I agree with you 110% and think Green should be up here - I just don't put it on RR, I put it on Melvin because at the end of the day Melvin can overrule RR on player decisions, RR can't go past Melvin and make a move. It's Melvins job to stock the roster - it's RR's job to coach what is on that roster.

[Raw Biz]

Casey wasnt brought up, he earned his way onto the roster out of ST and even then sat the bench till he forced the hand of the Brewers to play him more.

Semantics. The point is, he was a rookie who played well enough to convince the team he could replace a struggling player. Right now I think Green is playing well enough that he could replace a struggling McGehee.

[danzig6767]

RR's reasoning is pretty sound given that Gamel is a better hitter than Green. Just remove the anti-roenicke context twisting and it's actually feasible

So his decision then seems to be that because Green would be a rookie and he doesn't trust rookies to produce since Gamel didn't in a very small sample, he'll just keep sticking with his plan for McGehee.

 

Keep playing Casey nearly everyday regardless of the fact that over roughly the last 70 games, McGehee has been one of if not the worst everyday players in all of baseball. It may as well be called the Melvin/Roenicke hope and pray plan because there is no actual logic behind it besides just hoping and praying that at some point before the season ends, Casey will stop performing like one of the worst everyday players in baseball. All the damage done by McGehee during this "plan" of theirs be damned since at least he's not a rookie, thus Casey deserves a near infinite amount of time to turn things around.

[theavrock]

Yes and no. Someone a while back found a DM quote that essentially said that Ron has a lot of input in to the players he has on the 25 man. He mentioned that Doug makes the trades yes, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Ron had influence over calling players up/sending them down.

No doubt RR has some input - but at the end of the day, he doesn't make the decision. Melvin does.

 

Cherry picking a quote and trying to pin Green being stuck at AAA on RR is a big stretch.

You are right that would be a big stretch. I never said that and I am not sure where you are getting that from.

I said input and influence. Not sure how I was "pinning" anything on Ron. I said yes and no, in that yes the call is DM's but Ron has influence over it.

 

 

[TheCrew]

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you had said that, but a poster did on the previous page and that is what I was referencing.

[CheezWizHed]

Well, at least they have publicly acknowledged Green's presence in the minors. Perhaps after being asked, RR gave a "stock answer", but later went back and asked DM, "Who is this Taylor Green guy?"

 

And I'd put money down that the "fans clamoring" were mainly BF.net members... http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[trwi7]

Casey wasnt brought up, he earned his way onto the roster out of ST and even then sat the bench till he forced the hand of the Brewers to play him more. Rickie Weeks got hurt.

 

Fixed for accuracy.

[logan82]

jwill535 wrote:

Casey wasnt brought up, he earned his way onto the roster out of ST and even then sat the bench till he forced the hand of the Brewers to play him more. Rickie Weeks got hurt and Bill Hall completely stunk at 3B for a month and a half.

[markedman5]

So could somebody ask RR why we just brought up Carroll since he is a worse hitter then Gamel and might struggle up here as well?

 

Fans are smart enough to realiaze that Green is not guaranteed to have a big impact at this level.

 

Its also not guaranteed that he won't just because Gamel struggled.

 

 

I think most if us just feel he should be given a chance....especially considering we don't need Yuni, Wilson and Counsell on the team at the same time. One backup SS is enough . Green could play both 3rd and 2nd while giving you a legitimate platoon candidtate at 3rd.