The Bring up Taylor Green Thread

[endaround]

Neither Green nor Gamel are AAA scrubs. Losing either one for next year would suck.

 

I never advocated sending McGehee down. Hart and McGehee, even if he is playing well, are not the type of players that need to play every game during the week. They are exactly the type of guys you sub out once or twice a week for a decent hitter with the platoon advantage. Green and Gamel make so much sense to soft platoon with those guys it is sickening it hasn't happened yet. Ikno, I know, I have advocated that again and again and again.

The slight increase (if any) with Gamel's bat will likely be more than lost with Gamel playing RF.

[DougJones43]

-- The statement that "every AAA scrub that comes up here . . . struggle(s) and falter(s)" is demonstrably false, as people have documented in this thread. The fact that the poster makes no effort to refute factual statements made in this thread that belie his claim demonstrates bad faith.

I don't know. I think he was right that every AAA scrub fails. Like Nieves and Almonte. Green, however, is not a AAA scrub, so I don't see where this is pertinent info.

Ironically, I think McGehee was pretty much the definition of a AAA scrub before he got his shot, based on his career minor league numbers. I agree with you though, Green is not at all a scrub but rather a prospect with a good ceiling.

[logan82]

Neither Green nor Gamel are AAA scrubs. Losing either one for next year would suck.

 

I never advocated sending McGehee down. Hart and McGehee, even if he is playing well, are not the type of players that need to play every game during the week. They are exactly the type of guys you sub out once or twice a week for a decent hitter with the platoon advantage. Green and Gamel make so much sense to soft platoon with those guys it is sickening it hasn't happened yet. Ikno, I know, I have advocated that again and again and again.

The slight increase (if any) with Gamel's bat will likely be more than lost with Gamel playing RF.

Gamel's is athletic and problem with defense is throwing. I doubt he would be any worse in the outfield than Hart or Kotsay. Add in that he actually has some power and I see no way he would be worse than Kotsay right now.

[hurricanecrush]

Braun is athletic too and he's still average, at best, in LF after 4 years of playing there... and LF is an easier position than RF. Gamel has played 7 games in RF in his minor league career, to expect him to be even average right off the bat, is a stretch.

[logan82]

Braun is athletic too and he's still average, at best, in LF after 4 years of playing there... and LF is an easier position than RF. Gamel has played 7 games in RF in his minor league career, to expect him to be even average right off the bat, is a stretch.

The difference is that Gamel seems like he has decent fielding instincts, Braun never did and still doesn't. Gamel can field but can't throw. Braun really couldn't field well or throw.

[Bernman23]

The Brewers didn't finish 2 out of first in 2007 because of rookie Braun's 1.004 OPS and Gallardo's 3.67 ERA in 17 starts. Doug would need to look no further than one of his recent past Brewers' teams to see how top prospects could become immediate and immense assets in a playoff race. It's just a case of another short-sighted decision by Doug, unless the real reason is that Green is one of the PTBNL's, in which case he was being monumentally more myopic.

[Never Outhustled]

Taylor Green was just removed from the Nashville game in the 4th inning for no obvious reason. Hopefully he finally got the call.

[Never Outhustled]

That bum Lopez better not be on the team tomorrow. He didn't run out any of his 3 groundouts today. Inexcusable. Fielder runs out everyone, but a part timer like Lopez doesn't? Get that cancer off our team. Everything is going too well to let him infect this striving unit.

[FVBrewerFan]

Taylor Green was just removed from the Nashville game in the 4th inning for no obvious reason. Hopefully he finally got the call.

Interesting. Possibly this was Counsell's going away party today?

 

Also, don't waste too much more time reacting to that guy's comments about how all AAA players are bums. Same guy recently posted in an IGT that Axford was horrible, or words to that effect. Just roll with it....we all know MLB players don't came from the minor league system, they come from storks.

 

[danzig6767]

That bum Lopez better not be on the team tomorrow. He didn't run out any of his 3 groundouts today. Inexcusable. Fielder runs out everyone, but a part timer like Lopez doesn't? Get that cancer off our team. Everything is going too well to let him infect this striving unit.

Lopez only jogged to first in the Cardinals series on a double play ball that wasn't your typical easy 6-4-3 DP. If there had been even the slightest bobble, a hustling player could beat out the play at first, but Lopez wouldn't have because with his jogging to first, he ended up being out by a ton. It's pretty amazing that a guy (Lopez) was rescued from the minors by a team in first place, yet he still has the gall to regularly not hustle to his fullest.

 

Unfortunately, because we are winning, we are unlikely to see anything

change, though the winning has not been in any way related to bench

play. This organization seems to have this odd mentality that anyone

with MLB experience is better than a rookie, regardless of numbers.

Even if the production proves this to the contrary, they stick with this

philosophy.

I won't rag to harshly on Melvin since he put together this team which is 70-51 and playing as well as any Brewers team in a long time, but i've thought for awhile now that one of Doug's weaknesses as a GM is an overly stubborn belief that bench players must have MLB experience, regardless if certain veteran bench players are very unproductive, while a young player or players is being very productive in AAA.

 

The odd thing about this is that Melvin rarely has seemed to have any qualms about calling up unproven pitchers to the big league roster, but when it comes to position players for the bench, Doug would almost always prefer using a veteran, even if that guy has little to nothing left.

[jjfanec]

I won't rag to harshly on Melvin since he put together this team which is 70-51 and playing as well as any Brewers team in a long time, but i've thought for awhile now that one of Doug's weaknesses as a GM is an overly stubborn belief that bench players must have MLB experience, regardless if certain veteran bench players are very unproductive, while a young player or players is being very productive in AAA.

 

The odd thing about this is that Melvin rarely has seemed to have any qualms about calling up unproven pitchers to the big league roster, but when it comes to position players for the bench, Doug would almost always prefer using a veteran, even if that guy has little to nothing left.

Oddly enough there was a ton of venting about Gamel being called up and only being a bench player a couple years back. The idea was that a prospect should not sit the bench but should get consistent playing time in AAA. Gamel has been a bench player a couple times and the last time he had very little success

[DHonks]

fvbrewerfan and danzig, I was listening to the Cards games on XM while in the car, and the Cards announcers were amazed that Lopez forgot to cover 2nd on two potential double plays. They directly blamed him for the Brewers losing that one game.

[danzig6767]

I won't rag to harshly on Melvin since he put together this team which is 70-51 and playing as well as any Brewers team in a long time, but i've thought for awhile now that one of Doug's weaknesses as a GM is an overly stubborn belief that bench players must have MLB experience, regardless if certain veteran bench players are very unproductive, while a young player or players is being very productive in AAA.

 

The odd thing about this is that Melvin rarely has seemed to have any qualms about calling up unproven pitchers to the big league roster, but when it comes to position players for the bench, Doug would almost always prefer using a veteran, even if that guy has little to nothing left.

Oddly enough there was a ton of venting about Gamel being called up and only being a bench player a couple years back. The idea was that a prospect should not sit the bench but should get consistent playing time in AAA. Gamel has been a bench player a couple times and the last time he had very little success

I can only speak for myself, but when it comes to using legit prospects as bench players in the majors, a big factor would be the state of the team. On a team with only a slim or zero shot at the playoffs, i'd prefer keeping prospects in the minors playing everyday. On a team like this year's current Brewers though where a chance to make the playoffs hasn't been a longshot at all, then i'd be much more willing to use a prospect, even if that guy won't play everyday.

 

Plus, if Green was brought up, he should start at least a couple times a week at 3rd vs righthanders, even if Roenicke didn't use a strict platoon like as he does in CF. Green also could be used fairly often as a pinch hitter since he'd pretty much be the only bench bat with extra base hit power on days where none of the regular players were given a day off.

 

It would be nice to finally have someone on the bench with some pop for situations late in games with a runner or two on where a double or homer obviously would have more impact than a single. Say there are two outs in the 7th inning and we are down 4-2, with guys on 1st and 2nd, and a pinch hitter due up next. It would be nice to have a kid like Green to throw in there with at least some hope that he could get an extra base hit instead of our bench full of basically singles hitters at best.

[igor67]

Time of year also makes a difference. A call-up at this point would lose two weeks of regular playing time. For a guy who has shown he owns the league all year that is hardly an issue. As others have pointed out Gamel's 'struggle' is still better than a whole bunch of what we have right now.

[homer]

I won't rag to harshly on Melvin since he put together this team which is 70-51 and playing as well as any Brewers team in a long time, but i've thought for awhile now that one of Doug's weaknesses as a GM is an overly stubborn belief that bench players must have MLB experience, regardless if certain veteran bench players are very unproductive, while a young player or players is being very productive in AAA.

Maybe the memory of Brad Nelson still haunts him.

[RobDeer 45]

Gamel can not come up to the majors and play in the OF. That might work in a video game but it won't work in the majors. He needs time to learn the position.

[Invader3K]

Gamel can not come up to the majors and play in the OF. That might work in a video game but it won't work in the majors. He needs time to learn the position.

I agree. I don't know where the "Gamel can play right field" idea keeps coming from. He has played zero games in the outfield in Nashville this year, and only five last season. The organization still views him as a first baseman (only 10 starts at 3B this season).

[JohnBriggs12]

That bum Lopez better not be on the team tomorrow. He didn't run out any of his 3 groundouts today. Inexcusable. Fielder runs out everyone, but a part timer like Lopez doesn't? Get that cancer off our team. Everything is going too well to let him infect this striving unit.

Lopez' days are numbered. Weeks is ahead of schedule and it's possible he returns prior to Sept. 1. It's clear Lopez is not the same guy he was two years ago. He doesn't appear to be in great shape, and if he's not running out ground balls, well there's no place for that.

 

They really need another lefty bat though and they seem intent on keeping Counsell until the end, so it appears Green won't get a call prior to Sept. 1.

[FVBrewerFan]

Yea, I've seen comments about Green playing 2B, Gamel in RF.... that's just not going to happen. Frankly, at this point, I'm not sure it makes sense to bring either guy up to be used strictly as a PH. If Green plays in some sort of platoon at 3B, I'm all for it. But this is one area where I DO agree with the naysayers. Pretty tough to bring a guy up who almost never pinch hits, let alone at the MLB level in high pressure situations.

 

So if they're not going to get some starts, don't bother. I would rather trade for a Giambi, Thome, etc. type of guy. LH experienced power bat off the bench. Plus, that player could be used as DH vs the Yankees in the WS. DM is not stupid, he's got to know this roster has to be tweaked coming down the stretch and into the playoffs. You just can't afford to have 4 redundant players on the bench.

 

But I think Casey is doing just enough for them to say "let's not mess with this."

[Ayt]

Gamel can not come up to the majors and play in the OF. That might work in a video game but it won't work in the majors. He needs time to learn the position.

Didn't Wilson get used in the OF because he was shagging balls during BP?

[Hate those Rodents]

Anyone find out why Green was pulled last night?

[kramnoj]

Yes, Josh Wilson had never played OF in the majors before and had a single appearance in the OF in the minors a few years ago.

[monty57]

But Wilson's a gritty player who's paid his dues, so he can do anything the coach asks of him. Meanwhile, Green's experience with playing both 2B & 3B and his ability to actually hit have all been in in the minors and therefore mean nothing. [/blue]

 

Green has more use for the Brewers today than Gamel, so if it's an either/or situation I'd rather see Green brought up. He has to be able to play 2B/3B at least as well as Lopez, who has never been known to be a good fielder, even when he was younger and faster. Therefore, I'd be fine with Lopez going away in place of Green.

 

However, I don't see it as an eiter/or situation at this point. Other than laying down a sac bunt, Wilson has no value to this team, and even though the monumental hitless streak is over, Counsell still can't hit. Therefore, I would be happy to have Gamel replace one of these two. At this point, Counsell's probably going to stick around, and I guess at least he can play defense.

 

If both Gamel & Green were brought up, we would still have three players who could play SS (Yuni, Hairston and Counsell/Wilson), three who could play 2B until Weeks returns (Hairston, Green, Counsell/Wilson) and four who play 3B (McGehee, Hairston, Green, Counsell/Wilson). Depth really isn't a concern, so having a couple of real bats on the bench and possibly limiting the damage McGehee's doing to the everyday lineup would be nice.

[adambr2]

Anyone find out why Green was pulled last night?

I'd love to speculate that Green was pulled last night to be added to the 40 man and then 25 man roster with any of Lopez, Counsell, or Wilson being DFA'ed, but why bother?

[FVBrewerFan]

Remember Weeks is coming back. So I see Weeks for Lopez. Then you're left with Counsell/Wilson/Hairston. Wilson's ONLY value would that he's RH. (If Green replaced Counsell, Hairston would be the only RH off the bench.) I'm thinking:

 

Weeks for Lopez

Green for Wilson

Vet PH for Counsell (Trade for Giambi, Thome type)

Loogy for Dillon (Another trade would be necessary)

 

If they made those changes, they would be in about as good of a position possible. I'm fine with Kotsay, the guy has proven he can PH. And that will be the main use of anyone on the bench in Sep/Oct.