The Bring up Taylor Green Thread

[geddymd73]

We have Hairston, Lopez, Counsell, and Wilson. To even be think one minute about bringing up a rookie over 4 major league players is utterly absurd. This is no time to be splitting time trying to season a rookie. Lets all be clear that Greene has not seen a major league pitch outside of spring training.

[TooLiveBrew]

I agree. The Brewers wasted their chance to get Taylor Green up & acclimated. He'll be up & get a handful of Sept. callup PAs.

[danzig6767]

We have Hairston, Lopez, Counsell, and Wilson. To even be think one minute about bringing up a rookie over 4 major league players is utterly absurd. This is no time to be splitting time trying to season a rookie. Lets all be clear that Greene has not seen a major league pitch outside of spring training.

That's the whole point, Hairston, Lopez, Counsell, and Wilson together on the bench are redundant, especially Wilson. The team could easily get by with Wilson no longer being on the roster, especially since acquiring Hairston. All three of Hairston, Lopez, and Counsell can play secondbase, and Hairston/Counsell could play shortstop if something happened to Betancourt.

 

As for you're utterly absurd comment, the only thing utterly absurd is that comment of yours. The fact that Green hasn't played yet in the majors is largely irrelevant because you nor i can know with any level of certainty at all about how Green would perform if called up tonight. Hell, Craig Counsell has seen major league pitches for 15 years and just went 45 straight at bats without getting a hit. Casey McGehee has 1400 big league at bats under his belt, but this year for whatever reason he's been miserable to the tune of a .635 OPS. Nyger Morgan had a brutal .633 OPS last year, this season he has a .811 OPS.

 

Baseball is both fairly predictable and fairly unpredictable, we see countless examples either way in every season. Green if called up to platoon with McGehee could easily outproduce Casey, but he also could come up and have rookie struggles as evidenced by how numerous rookies perform either good, poorly, or mediocre each year. It's all up to whether a GM is willing to take a chance that a rookie performing well in AA/AAA will outproduce a veteran struggling on the big league roster, but it's very far from an absurd decision because it's worked out successfully countless times in baseball history.What would be absurd though is thinking that just because a baseball player is a rookie, that he couldn't play at a higher level than the guy he'd be replacing, just look at our closer. Axford pitched in a couple of big league games in 2009, but in 2010 as basically a rookie, he gets called up to the majors in May and manages to dominate big league hitters all the while having to deal with replacing a HOF legend in Hoffman. Rookies having success is far from rare.

[logan82]

It is debatable that Wilson, Counsell, and Lopez are talented enough to be MLB players. I think we need to get it out of our heads the just because a guy has played in the majors he is somehow better than guys in AAA.

[Never Outhustled]

Lopez is done. He no longer has the batspeed that he once had. That trait made teams ignore his laziness. Not anymore. Release Lopez and bring up Green today.

[twobrewers]

I blame Brad Nelson, Erick Almonte and Mat Gamel.

 

The Brewers have had very little success calling up AAA players to the MLB bench. After failing over the last few years, they seem completely unwilling to take that risk again - preferring the known qualities of Counsell, Hairston and Lopez.

 

That said, McGehee, Lopez, Hairston and Counsell have all been below replacement level this year.

 

McGehee has a recent history of success. Hairston is versitile and provides depth at CF. Counsell still plays quality defense. They can at least be argued.

 

I have no idea why Lopez is a Milwaukee Brewer. Eric Farris would at least bring better defense and a good pinch running option.

[endaround]

You mean AAA players like McGehee? Mike Rivera?

[thebruce44]

I blame Brad Nelson, Erick Almonte and Mat Gamel.

 

The Brewers have had very little success calling up AAA players to the MLB bench. After failing over the last few years, they seem completely unwilling to take that risk again - preferring the known qualities of Counsell, Hairston and Lopez.

 

That said, McGehee, Lopez, Hairston and Counsell have all been below replacement level this year.

 

McGehee has a recent history of success. Hairston is versitile and provides depth at CF. Counsell still plays quality defense. They can at least be argued.

 

I have no idea why Lopez is a Milwaukee Brewer. Eric Farris would at least bring better defense and a good pinch running option.

To be fair, Gamel was an average MLB player in his bench role before his small sample this season. But I agree with the point you are making, I just get flustered when people always talk about how Gamel "failed" or whatever in his MLB chance.

[DougJones43]

To be fair, Gamel was an average MLB player in his bench role before his small sample this season. But I agree with the point you are making, I just get flustered when people always talk about how Gamel "failed" or whatever in his MLB chance.

Yeah, Gamel has had a grand total of 171 at-bats spread out over 3 years of very irregular playing time. There's no way you can use that to make any kind of judgment on him, one way or the other.

 

And besides, the slash line of .242/.338/.422/.760 he posted in 2009 makes him look like a world beater compared to some of the guys currently on the roster. I agree, it really irks me when people claim he "failed."

[The Truth]

To be fair, Gamel was an average MLB player in his bench role before his small sample this season.

And to be equally fair: Counsell, Wilson, Lopez & McGehee have been below average MLB players this season

[paul253]

We have Hairston, Lopez, Counsell, and Wilson

 

Others have already touched this but let me just add this. Of those 4, the highest, the HIGHEST, OBP amongst them is .316. Lopez's is .279, Counsell's is .250 and Hairston's is .154. None of those are good. I have a hard time believing Taylor Green and his .417 OBP with 21 HR's and 80 RBI in Nashville wouldn't be a step up from any of them offensively. Defense is the question for me. But then again, is he really that bad defensively? As long as he isn't as worse than Weeks then you don't lose anything defensively from your normal second basemen. I understand the whole "playing well don't want to mess with things" argument but to say we shouldn't call up Green because of those other four is absurd. At least two of the four you mention should be in the minors.

[geddymd73]

Green will struggle and falter just like every AAA scrub that comes up here. Guys hitting over .300 and over .400 OBP in AAA are a dime a dozen, and pitching in the PCL is horrific. The only way some people are satisfied is by proving how futile they are at the plate and wasting an option. The only way this gets solved is by posting a horrible major league line and throwing him back to AAA, and saying "I told ya so". Thank goodness Melvin doesn't listen to the masses.

[logan82]

Others have already touched this but let me just add this. Of those 4,

the highest, the HIGHEST, OBP amongst them is .316. Lopez's is .279,

Counsell's is .250 and Hairston's is .154. None of those are good.

 

Actually Hairston's is .323 for this year.

 

Green will struggle and falter just like every AAA scrub that comes up

here. Guys hitting over .300 and over .400 OBP in AAA are a dime a

dozen, and pitching in the PCL is horrific. The only way some people are

satisfied is by proving how futile they are at the plate and wasting an

option. The only way this gets solved is by posting a horrible major

league line and throwing him back to AAA, and saying "I told ya so".

Thank goodness Melvin doesn't listen to the masses.

 

I don't even know where to start with this one so I will just laugh and move on to discussing the topic with other people.

[theavrock]

Green will struggle and falter just like every AAA scrub that comes up here. Guys hitting over .300 and over .400 OBP in AAA are a dime a dozen, and pitching in the PCL is horrific. The only way some people are satisfied is by proving how futile they are at the plate and wasting an option. The only way this gets solved is by posting a horrible major league line and throwing him back to AAA, and saying "I told ya so". Thank goodness Melvin doesn't listen to the masses. I have no idea what I'm talking about

Fixed that for ya

[Ayt]

Green will struggle and falter just like every AAA scrub that comes up here. Guys hitting over .300 and over .400 OBP in AAA are a dime a dozen, and pitching in the PCL is horrific. The only way some people are satisfied is by proving how futile they are at the plate and wasting an option. The only way this gets solved is by posting a horrible major league line and throwing him back to AAA, and saying "I told ya so". Thank goodness Melvin doesn't listen to the masses.

True. All AAA guys fail when they come to the majors.

[trwi7]

Green will struggle and falter just like every AAA scrub that comes up here. Guys hitting over .300 and over .400 OBP in AAA are a dime a dozen, and pitching in the PCL is horrific. The only way some people are satisfied is by proving how futile they are at the plate and wasting an option. The only way this gets solved is by posting a horrible major league line and throwing him back to AAA, and saying "I told ya so". Thank goodness Melvin doesn't listen to the masses.

True. All AAA guys fail when they come to the majors.

 

Dustin Ackley hit .303/.421/.487/.908 at Tacoma this year and is now failing to the tune of .297/.371/.506/.877 in the majors.

 

Just ignore geddy. It's pretty obvious he's just trying to piss people off at this point.

[FoxyFoxes]

Is telling someone they have no idea what they are talking about condecending? I agree with the opinion that the Brewers should bring up Green but nobody is "Wrong" in their opinions guys. If i wanted stuff like that I would go to the boards on jsonline.

[And That]

Guys hitting over .300 and over .400 OBP in AAA are a dime a dozen

I know you're just trying to bait people, but at least look these things up before you post them.

 

There are 16 players in AAA hitting .300 or better with an OBP of .400 or better, and a few of those guys have been promoted recently, so you'd have about a dime.

[gregmag]

You're right, FF -- opinions by definition can't be "wrong." I also agree with you that condescension is bad. But let's break this down:

 

-- To call a 24 year-old 2b/3b, former organizational player of the year, who is putting up a 1.000 OPS in AAA a "AAA scrub" is an opinion, but it's an opinion that I think most reasonable people would agree requires strong support. To assert that opinion with no support borders, at best, on bad faith.

 

-- The statement that "pitching in the PCL is horrific" is also an opinion, but it's a very broad, highly controversial claim, and again, to assert it with no support suggests that the asserter has no interest in constructive discussion.

 

-- The statement that "every AAA scrub that comes up here . . . struggle(s) and falter(s)" is demonstrably false, as people have documented in this thread. The fact that the poster makes no effort to refute factual statements made in this thread that belie his claim demonstrates bad faith.

 

-- The statement that "[g]uys hitting over .300 and over .400 OBP in AAA are a dime a dozen" is demonstrably false.

 

-- The dismissive references to "some people" and "the masses" and "I told ya so" are themselves deliberately insulting and condescending.

 

So IMHO this poster doesn't deserve constructive, engaged responses. Whether he deserves condescension is a matter of taste and tactics. For my money he's a troll, he deserves nothing, and from now on I'm ignoring him.

[theavrock]

You're right, FF -- opinions by definition can't be "wrong." I also agree with you that condescension is bad. But let's break this down…

I probably should have backed up my post with facts such as these that showed that the poster has no idea what he was talking about but a troll like that doesn't deserve balanced reasonable debate. I stand by my statement.

 

 

(pared back quoted material --1992)

[logan82]

The statement that "every AAA scrub that comes up here . . . struggle(s) and falter(s)" is demonstrably false

 

Well technically most players fail at least 60% of the time at the plate. Green may fail like Fielder fails or he may fail like Counsell fails. I think the problem is that geddy fails to define what fail means. I prefer to believe that he means Green and Gamel will fail like Weeks fails. I think he is overestimating their talent. They won't hit quite that well but should be expected to fail less than Kotsay, Lopez, Counsell, Betancourt, Wilson or McGehee have so far this year.

[adambr2]

I would like to see Green called up before September 1st so he is eligible for postseason play. He would be a far better option to have off the bench than, well, anyone currently on our bench.

 

Unfortunately, because we are winning, we are unlikely to see anything change, though the winning has not been in any way related to bench play. This organization seems to have this odd mentality that anyone with MLB experience is better than a rookie, regardless of numbers. Even if the production proves this to the contrary, they stick with this philosophy.

 

Felipe Lopez was just a completely pointless acquistion. You have Hairston now, so he can fill at 2B easily while Weeks is out, and is a better option every day than Lopez. For extra insurance, you can let Green have Lopez' spot. The sudden love for Felipe Lopez is hard to understand. Here's a guy who wasn't good enough to be on any 25 man roster in baseball a few weeks ago, and suddenly we have decided he is a legitimate every day starting option. I understand you're not going to replace Weeks, but there are better choices.

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

I have decided to hop on the "call up Green" bandwagon. We just need another lefty bat on our team. Counsell and Lopez just appear to be overmatched at the plate. McGehee is hitting better over the last month but that is not that hard to do. His average dropped back below .240 again this last week. His defense hasn't been real strong either. Yet, I am not advocating the all-out benching of McGehee. Just a soft platoon. Give McGehee a day off against pitchers with a big difference between righty and lefty splits. When we start a left-handed hitter at 3rd base we take a middle of the order power threat (even though the power hasn't presented itself as much this year) and replace him with a bottom of the order, punch-and-judy hitter.

[young guns]

-- The statement that "every AAA scrub that comes up here . . . struggle(s) and falter(s)" is demonstrably false, as people have documented in this thread. The fact that the poster makes no effort to refute factual statements made in this thread that belie his claim demonstrates bad faith.

I don't know. I think he was right that every AAA scrub fails. Like Nieves and Almonte. Green, however, is not a AAA scrub, so I don't see where this is pertinent info.

[logan82]

Neither Green nor Gamel are AAA scrubs. Losing either one for next year would suck.

 

I never advocated sending McGehee down. Hart and McGehee, even if he is playing well, are not the type of players that need to play every game during the week. They are exactly the type of guys you sub out once or twice a week for a decent hitter with the platoon advantage. Green and Gamel make so much sense to soft platoon with those guys it is sickening it hasn't happened yet. Ikno, I know, I have advocated that again and again and again.