The Bring up Taylor Green Thread

[Bernman23]

It's not like Melvin has earned blind faith from fans. Quite the opposite is true. If this was Ted Thompson the shouts would be more muffled.

I'm not sure that's true, prior to the superbowl run I think the vast majority of fans in WI thought Melvin was the better GM and still do. It's the main reason I quit posting over at Lambeauleap, I wasn't going to fight the same fight about organization building on 2 fronts with the same people. Thompson clearly understands how to build an organization as well as how little value there actually is to be found in FA.

 

Generally speaking when signing a name player you're paying for what they've done and not what they are going to do.

You must spend your time around a high percentage of radical Favreophiles. Among who I talked to and where I posted, the general perception before winning the Super Bowl was that he already one of the league's best GM's because of his team building ability, but just a little stubborn about making the cinching move. Now that he won the Super Bowl, he walks on water. Frustrations with Doug have been building because of the amount of holes on the team which could have filled if he hadn't relinquished players like Hardy, Cruz, Villanueva, JDLR, Cappy, etc.

[TheCrew07]

Possibly things have changed, I haven't posted over there in years, I dont' have time for messageboards once football season starts, my opinions were formed mostly on draft/free agent comments in the past. I just checked and I only have 5 total posts over there since 2008, so it's not like I've been actively following the forum.

 

I do think that if people truly appreciated what Thompson has done then the forum's general perspective on Melvin would have changed around here because he operates in exactly the opposite manner. Thompson has had his share of stinker contracts to guys like Poppinga and Chillar (I never liked him much for some reason) who were never going to be anything more than role players, but he's done very well locking the proper impact players before their value has peaked. I'm not sure Crosby was worth his contract either, but it's hard to argue given the shortened window to try and find a replacement. Melvin may have bought his way to the post season and maybe beyond with prospects, but there's nothing behind this current team. I'm not minimizing Weeks' injury, but for the Brewer's sake it was much better he got hurt than Fielder, Braun, or one of the top starting pitchers. The winter trades may be enough to get home and get to a world series even though my gut impression was that they weren't, but it's just not the way a team like Milwaukee can sustain success, and it exactly the opposite approach I would have had Melvin make. If it happens I'll certainly have to eat crow.

 

I would much rather roll an extra $5 million per year into signing bonuses/player development/medical treatment than be spending that money on FA players to plug holes, especially relievers. Even if it only nets us an extra MLB player every 2-3 years it's still worth it in the end. I found it interesting that the Packers had total gross revenue of $282 milllion but only profited $12 million in a Super Bowl winning season. I work pretty closely with the proshop and they didn't catch up on web orders until the middle of March, they were that busy all winter and ended up pulling in $11 million for the team, mostly the entire profit. The Brewers can't be taking in anywhere near that amount of money, and while their payroll is about 30 million less, I question how profitable the organization is with this level payroll? I just don't see how the Brewers can sustain the payroll without 3 million fans, but they won't get 3 million fans without wins, and they won't win without developing their own impact talent.

[homer]

But putting together a football roster and putting together a baseball roster are two totally different things. They are only comparable in that the job title is the same.

[fondybrewfan]

You really think Doug Melvin is not doing what is in the best interest of the club? We have no idea what goes on behind closed doors yet we have a better idea what is in the best interest of the club than Melvin does? Don't get me wrong I am confused as anyone about the Green situation but its not like I think Mevlin is trying to sabotage the club or something. He and RR feel they have a good reason for not bringing him up and maybe they aren't being completely upfront and honest with the media about the situation. Who cares, that kind of misleading mumbo jumbo happens all the time. Why would Melvin & Co come out and say why exactly they won't bring Green up? Probably because they feel he has certain faults. Now would they want to advertise those faults when you are the trading deadline? Probably not.

I really don't think he's likely acting in the best interest of the club because a. he has a poor track record in recent years regarding his decisions, and b. he knows his job is on the line this year so doesn't care about mortgaging a future he won't be a part of unless he wins this season. I don't see why the team can't make the playoffs next year with the additions of Gamel, Green, the allocation of Prince's salary toward bullpen and depth, and all of the remaining talent on the team. Plus, keeping the farm respectable will help us recover quicker after that. So we shouldn't have an "all-in" mentality. We should be buyers, but in terms of spending money, not young talent on the cheap. How does a small market franchise win without young talent on the cheap? The young talent, accumulated by Jack Z., is the primary reason we are in contention in the first place.

I might have missed something but how exactly has Melvin mortgaged the future? We have everyone but Prince back next year. He is obviously in a win now position but I don't think it is fair to say he sacrificed any chance of future success just to save his job. There are plteny of different scenarios I can think up that keep the Brewers as contendors in the next 3-5 years. Maybe not World Series contendors but certainly playoff worthy.

 

Besides I think Melvin has a ton of job security; regarless of what happens this year he is not going anywhere IMO

 

[Ayt]

Taylor Green's BA is 23 points higher than Eric Farris' OBP and yet somehow Eric Farris got the call.

Where I come from we call that funny.

trwi7 wrote:

---

Just got another hit. Now 4-4 with 2 homers, 2 walks, a double, a single, 6 RBI and 5 runs.

Still needs more seasoning in AAA, IMO. Is his OPS even 1.100 yet?

[Ayt]

You really think Doug Melvin is not doing what is in the best interest of the club? We have no idea what goes on behind closed doors yet we have a better idea what is in the best interest of the club than Melvin does? Don't get me wrong I am confused as anyone about the Green situation but its not like I think Mevlin is trying to sabotage the club or something. He and RR feel they have a good reason for not bringing him up and maybe they aren't being completely upfront and honest with the media about the situation. Who cares, that kind of misleading mumbo jumbo happens all the time. Why would Melvin & Co come out and say why exactly they won't bring Green up? Probably because they feel he has certain faults. Now would they want to advertise those faults when you are the trading deadline? Probably not.

I do. I don't think he's doing it consciously. I don't think DM or RR are very good at their jobs. That doesn't mean I don't think they are doing the best they can.

[Funketown]

Green just struck out. Guy can't even hit AAA pitching, yet we clamor for him to play in the big leagues? In order to be successful in the bigs, you need grit, experience, and more grit. It's a man's game, and men don't strike out against guys named Andy Van Hekken. Green is clearly just mentally weak. His feelings were hurt when he wasn't called up to the big leagues yesterday, as Lopez was acquired. I heard from my friend who interned in ticket sales for the Sounds that he cried himself to sleep last night and questioned his passion for the game. I'm betting the reason he struck out tonight is because he went out partying too late last night.

 

Winners just don't call up players who strike out against Andy Van Hekken.

[danzig6767]

You really think Doug Melvin is not doing what is in the best interest of the club? We have no idea what goes on behind closed doors yet we have a better idea what is in the best interest of the club than Melvin does? Don't get me wrong I am confused as anyone about the Green situation but its not like I think Mevlin is trying to sabotage the club or something. He and RR feel they have a good reason for not bringing him up and maybe they aren't being completely upfront and honest with the media about the situation. Who cares, that kind of misleading mumbo jumbo happens all the time. Why would Melvin & Co come out and say why exactly they won't bring Green up? Probably because they feel he has certain faults. Now would they want to advertise those faults when you are the trading deadline? Probably not.

I do. I don't think he's doing it consciously. I don't think DM or RR are very good at their jobs. That doesn't mean I don't think they are doing the best they can.

I don't see how anyone can say that Melvin is a bad GM. If people want to see what a bad GM is, they don't need to look any further than the team the Brewers are now playing against, the Houston Astros run by Ed Wade. Now he's a bad GM.

 

What i definitely think can be debated though is if Melvin is a good GM overall. I wouldn't put him in the category of say the top 10 GM's in baseball, but i don't think he's a bad GM either. I'd put him somewhere around the middle of the pack.

 

One thing that makes it somewhat harder to evaluate baseball GM's compared to football GM's is the draft. When it comes to a football GM, we know that guy is the one pulling the trigger on draft choices. When it comes to baseball GM's, some may have a little input on say first round picks, but after that, it's almost always the scouting director making the rest of the picks by himself. Thus, if a scouting director does a poor or great job drafting, it's going to make things quite a bit easier or tougher on the GM, especially for smaller market teams who generally can't spend a lot in free agency as teams like NY, Boston, and other richer teams can.

 

Take Melvin's tenure for example. The farm system overall during his time has done a great job producing hitters, albeit hitters who almost all came with defensive shortcomings besides Hardy. On the flip side, it's been pretty miserable at producing quality big league pitchers. So should a baseball GM deserve much credit or blame for what a farm system produces during their tenure, good, bad, or mediocre? That question never even needs to be considered with a football GM, they make pretty much every single player transaction except in cases of an overbearing owner like Daniel Snyder in Washington.

[Mr QL]

So are we really sure Green isn't the PTBNL?

[BrewCrewForever]

So are we really sure Green isn't the PTBNL?

I don't think anyone seems to know for sure expect people inside the Brewers or Mets organizations.

[strawbossisevil]

Right, I don´t think anyone can say 100% that he isn´t one of the PTBNL. But based on everything that has been said, it seems highly unlikely. I´m 99% sure that he is not a PTBNL.

[MNBrew]

Right, I don´t think anyone can say 100% that he isn´t one of the PTBNL. But based on everything that has been said, it seems highly unlikely. I´m 99% sure that he is not a PTBNL.

It would be at least a bit surprising if he were a PTBNL since David Wright's not going anywhere.

 

I'd also think that if Prince goes elsewhere as a FA AND if McGehee's bat stays crappy the whole rest of the year (though it seems it's thawing at least a bit right now), Gamel's the 1B-in-waiting and it sure would seem the Brewers would want Green kept in the mix at the very least to challenge McGehee for the 3B job or, should McGehee still win that battle, be a strong contender for a reserve role in '12.

[geddymd73]

Considering all of Nashville (some of who are batting over .300 in AAA) is a collective 31 for 201 at the major league level this year (.154), I can see how Melvin would not be very confident with bringing Green up at this point. I guess there's a long shot that he's some unexpected diamond in the rough, but not likely.

The only guy who was good was Kottaras, and he batted 12 points better than Green when he left, and is only batting .217 on the Brewers.

[Mr Southpaw]

If you can play baseball, you can play baseball. AAA vs Majors is a step up, but only a step.. If George played more he would hit better. Playing every day or just everyother day helps a lot. Gamel will hit in the Majors, he just need s to play. We will see that next year, hopefully, as a Brewer.

 

I have really liked Green for a long time and pray he starts at least100 games for the for the Brewers next year.

[theavrock]

Considering all of Nashville (some of who are batting over .300 in AAA) is a collective 31 for 201 at the major league level this year (.154), I can see how Melvin would not be very confident with bringing Green up at this point. I guess there's a long shot that he's some unexpected diamond in the rough, but not likely.

The only guy who was good was Kottaras, and he batted 12 points better than Green when he left, and is only batting .217 on the Brewers.

http://www.fangraphs.com/...samples-become-reliable/

also

google the transitive fallacy

[yoyo49]

Sorry if this has been addressed before, but Green does need to be added to the 40 man before December to protect him from the Rule 5 draft, correct?

[And That]

Yes. Green was actually eligible for the Rule 5 last year.

[SoCalBrewfan]

Considering all of Nashville (some of who are batting over .300 in AAA) is a collective 31 for 201 at the major league level this year (.154), I can see how Melvin would not be very confident with bringing Green up at this point.

 

Perhaps, as a result, we should rule out any player who's ever played in AAA.

[CheeseheadInIllinois]

Considering all of Nashville (some of who are batting over .300 in AAA) is a collective 31 for 201 at the major league level this year (.154), I can see how Melvin would not be very confident with bringing Green up at this point. I guess there's a long shot that he's some unexpected diamond in the rough, but not likely.

The only guy who was good was Kottaras, and he batted 12 points better than Green when he left, and is only batting .217 on the Brewers.

Except most of those were guys who the Brewers already knew were fringe guys based upon past experience. It seems like most non-middle infielders, if they are good enough to stick around for several seasons at AAA, will adjust and post good stats in the PCL. That doesn't mean they are suddenly good major leaguers. Maybe I'm wrong to do so, but I put more stock in Green's numbers because he is doing it in his first AAA season.

 

Since 2004 I believe only 11 guys, counting so far this year, have even had .800 OPS for the Brewers' AAA squads in their first extended action at AAA (Braun would have topped the list and made it an even dozen, but he didn't stick around long enough for me to count)

 

Weeks: 1.090; Green: .993; Fielder: .957; Cruz: .872; Katin: .856; Gamel: .839; Gindl: .838; Heether: .829; Hart: .827; Hardy: .825; and Rottino: .819

 

Does this mean he's going to be a star, especially this year? No. Does this mean I'd give him a better probability of posting solid numbers with consistent playing time than Carroll, Almonte or Kottaras? Definitely

[Funketown]

Tyler Greene was just called up to the majors.

 

http://yourenotagolfer.mlblogs.com/tag/tyler-greene/

 

Now, if only the Brewers will call up Taylor Green, we'll be in business.

[tigerbrew]

I hope DM calls up Taylor Green right away to play 2B or 3B, I'm itching to see what Green can do. Maybe Green could be the spark to improve our offense. No harm in giving it a try.

[brwrsfan]

It's pretty clearly NOT going to happen at this point. Maybe in September, but it's not going to happen now. The window has been there with Casey sucking all year and then the Weeks injury, but they filled those spots already. He most definitely deserves a roster spot over Counsell at this point, but they won't do that either.

 

The only chance of seeing him this year is with a September callup. I completely disagree with that, but that almost certainly seems to be the direction they are going, for whatever reason.

[And That]

Dan Szymborski gave me the ZiPS MLB rest-of-season projection for Green: .261/.330/.415, which I teased out to be a .326 wOBA.

[jjkoestler]

Dan Szymborski gave me the ZiPS MLB rest-of-season projection for Green: .261/.330/.415, which I teased out to be a .326 wOBA.

.260/.314/.401/.716 wOBA .312 for Casey going forward. This really should be a no brainer if Green plays better defense.

[adambr2]

Dan Szymborski gave me the ZiPS MLB rest-of-season projection for Green: .261/.330/.415, which I teased out to be a .326 wOBA.

.260/.314/.401/.716 wOBA .312 for Casey going forward. This really should be a no brainer if Green plays better defense.

 

Green however has a condition called lineupwitharookieingitus, which Melvin and Co. believe to magically cause runs to disappear off the board in crunch time in playoff races.