The Bring up Taylor Green Thread

[gregmag]

So Haudricourt is sick of Taylor Green questions? Man, what a self-important jerk. The contempt he shows for his readership is just astonishing, given that he's consistently lazy, not especially bright, and lucky enough to have a plumb job that a great many people could do far better than he does it.

 

One of the many things that a good beat writer does, and Haudricourt doesn't do, is strike a balance between expressing his informed views on the team, including critical views, and maintaining a good relationship with the people he covers on a day-to-day basis. A lot of beat writers would see Taylor Green's numbers at AAA, look at the Brewers' infield situation, and see what actual journalists call a story, worth what actual journalists call reporting. But Haudricourt just gets the noninformative dismissal from DM, reports it, and then tells people to shut up about Taylor Green. What a professional.

[markedman5]

You should follow him on twitter....his criticism is almost never "veiled".

 

You haven't read much Haudricourt if you think he doesn't criticize the decisions of the Brewers.

He does, but that is never the focus of an article or a blog post, and usually he only does it after there is much clamoring from the fans (on here and in the comment of MJS) for him to ask about something.

 

His criticism is usually veiled, saying something like "Despite Taylor Green batting .330 with 20 hrs and an OPS of .995 in Nashville, Melvin and Roenicke are unwilling to call him up to the big league club because of [X, Y, Z with quotes]."

 

He almost never just out and out says what he thinks the Brewers should do, and it isn't his job to do so. He might also use 20/20 hindsight to criticize a decision, saying that it didn't work out, but rarely will he criticize the decision as it is made or try to push for something that he thinks should happen.

[ninja33]

I believe his stats for June and July would be .395/.464/.686/1.150. That is one dominant two-month stretch.

 

Good thing none of that success has come in the bigs...it would have taken at bats from established players who used them oh so well. Casey McGehee is proof positive that minor league players who are not high draft picks but have some AAA success never have any success if given major league playing time.

 

Seriously, compare Green in AAA at 24 to McGehee in AAA at 25. Then weep.

 

 

Then compare them to Brandon wood in AAA at 23.

 

I'm definitely not saying green shouldn't have been given a chance by now...but if he struggled mightily in the majors he wouldn't be the first guy to do so, and he certainly wouldn't be the last. He should have had his shot by now...but aaa success certainly doesn't always translate well to MLB success

[MillerBombers]

I believe his stats for June and July would be .395/.464/.686/1.150. That is one dominant two-month stretch.

 

Good thing none of that success has come in the bigs...it would have taken at bats from established players who used them oh so well. Casey McGehee is proof positive that minor league players who are not high draft picks but have some AAA success never have any success if given major league playing time.

 

Seriously, compare Green in AAA at 24 to McGehee in AAA at 25. Then weep.

 

 

Then compare them to Brandon wood in AAA at 23.

 

I'm definitely not saying green shouldn't have been given a chance by now...but if he struggled mightily in the majors he wouldn't be the first guy to do so, and he certainly wouldn't be the last. He should have had his shot by now...but aaa success certainly doesn't always translate well to MLB success

I get what you are saying. I don't think anyone here is trying to say that Taylor Green will have MLB success. I think everyone here is trying to say he should have been up to see what we have.

[gregmag]

I believe his stats for June and July would be .395/.464/.686/1.150. That is one dominant two-month stretch.

 

Good thing none of that success has come in the bigs...it would have taken at bats from established players who used them oh so well. Casey McGehee is proof positive that minor league players who are not high draft picks but have some AAA success never have any success if given major league playing time.

 

Seriously, compare Green in AAA at 24 to McGehee in AAA at 25. Then weep.

 

Then compare them to Brandon wood in AAA at 23. I'm definitely not saying green shouldn't have been given a chance by now...but if he struggled mightily in the majors he wouldn't be the first guy to do so, and he certainly wouldn't be the last. He should have had his shot by now...but aaa success certainly doesn't always translate well to MLB success

Of course this is true, but sometimes people here (and elsewhere) seem to think minor league performance has no bearing on major league performance. It's all baseball. We all know that various elements of the game get tougher as you climb the ladder, but at bottom you're playing the same game. Taylor Green's AAA performance this year is highly significant evidence that he has a good chance to succeed at the major league level.

 

Just for the heck of it, a couple of things about Brandon Wood. (1) He always had poor K/BB rates; 2:1 was his best, when he repeated AAA at 24. (2) Based on a quick search for data over the past several years, Salt Lake looks like one of the premier hitting environments in AAA. Wood's raw numbers weren't quite as good as Green's current numbers even in 2008, let alone 2009, and you have to let some air out of the raw numbers to make a true comparison. (3) This might cut differently for different people, but Wood's OPS at AAA was more driven by power than Green's numbers are; in his big year in 2008, Wood hit .375/.595.

 

[logan82]

TH can complain all he wants but the questions will not stop until Green is called up or we get some kind of definitive answer instead of just some wishy washy answer like Gamel didn't hit well so neither will Green or McGehee starts to hit more than a few singles.

[yoshii8]

Exactly, people are going to keep asking until we finally hear a decent reason. You'd think if a beat writer was getting a ton of questions about one subject he might think about doing a story on it?

[crewcrazy]

If you were TH wouldn't you be sick of being constantly asked the same question? It doesn't mean he doesn't think (to himself) that Green might be a solution to certain problems. It's that, given his position as beat writer, the question has been asked and answered. About 1000 times. He has no control over the situation. He asks the question. The Brewers answer it. Smart readers read between the lines of the answers. He's not saying it's a stupid question. It's a GREAT question. The first time it's asked. And the second. And maybe even the third. After that it's just superfluous.

I would DEFINITELY be sick of it. But it comes with the territory of being a beat reporter. Even if I'm sick of it, I'd learn to ignore it when people keep asking the same thing over and over.

This is one time of the year where I can't blame TH or any other beat writer for getting a little grumpy with answers. Every dumb trade rumor like "Some guy with 27 followers is reporting Gamel for Alex Rios...is this true?!?" gets heaped on them, and after 50 people tweet you the same questions it probably gets grating.

 

With that said, it could probably be handled a little better. For the most part, people are just curious and don't know any better. There's been a few other situations where people have asked follow-up questions (whether it's about roster moves or post-game RR quotes) and he's responded with something like, "what do you want us to do, waterboard him for answers?" People are just hungry for information, and there aren't that many reporters with access in Milwaukee.

[ninja33]

I believe his stats for June and July would be .395/.464/.686/1.150. That is one dominant two-month stretch.

 

Good thing none of that success has come in the bigs...it would have taken at bats from established players who used them oh so well. Casey McGehee is proof positive that minor league players who are not high draft picks but have some AAA success never have any success if given major league playing time.

 

Seriously, compare Green in AAA at 24 to McGehee in AAA at 25. Then weep.

 

 

Then compare them to Brandon wood in AAA at 23.

 

I'm definitely not saying green shouldn't have been given a chance by now...but if he struggled mightily in the majors he wouldn't be the first guy to do so, and he certainly wouldn't be the last. He should have had his shot by now...but aaa success certainly doesn't always translate well to MLB success

I get what you are saying. I don't think anyone here is trying to say that Taylor Green will have MLB success. I think everyone here is trying to say he should have been up to see what we have.

 

 

 

I definitely agree with that. I just think that over the past few weeks the uproar around green has just grown and grown, and a lot of the posts I read kind of leave the impression that he's grown into this can't miss untouchable prospect. I more than agree he should have been called up by now, and if a trade isn't made by the deadline he better be on Monday.

[sbrylski]

Kevin Goldstein (Baseball Prospectus):

 

Taylor Green, 3B, Brewers (Triple-A Nashville): 4-for-4, 2B, 2 HR (17), 5 R, 6 RBI, 2 BB.

 

He's not especially athletic as much as he's a gamer who gets the most out of limited tools, but can't the same be said of the current third baseman in Milwaukee who is doing nothing? Now batting .395 in 52 games since the calendars flipped to June and .333/.414/.579 overall, there is simply no more excuse in Milwaukee to not address the left side of the infield from within.

 

Source: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=14665

[logan82]

ninja33 wrote:

 

 

I definitely agree with that. I just think that over the past few weeks the uproar around green has just grown and grown, and a lot of the posts I read kind of leave the impression that he's grown into this can't miss untouchable prospect. I more than agree he should have been called up by now, and if a trade isn't made by the deadline he better be on Monday.

I think you are reading more into people's post than they are actually saying. The bar is so low with McGehee, Kotsay and Counsell that it would be almost impossible for Green to be worse. He is an internal option so it

would be very easy to bring him up without making any other moves. Other than cutting Kotsay or Counsell of course. The frustration is we continually trot out Kotsay and McGehee while we have a possible better option in AAA. People are upset that nothing is being done to improve the roster even though Green is right there. The bullpen wasn't really an issue(other than DPR misusing Loe) so if we traded a guy who could possibly help us for a mostly unneeded part, people are going to be upset.

[topper09er]

Haudricourt Tom

The Taylor Green questions rally need to stop. We've asked and asked and asked about the guy. #Brewers obviously don't think he is MLB 2B.

 

I'm getting so sick of following him on twitter. He's so arrogant and acts like he knows it all. I follow McCalvy and he does a great job, IMO. It's just that every now and then Haudricourt has something that McCalvy doesn't, or he does it a little faster.

I agree, the reason people keep on Haudricourt about this is because he does not ask the right questions or bring up the arguements that have been raised in this thread. It is not enough to just ask Doug Melvin if they will bring up Green. Haudricourt needs to ask why they wouldnt bring up Green given that he is dominating AAA and McGehee is literally the worst non catcher starter in the NL and ask Doug Melvin if he thinks there is any chance that Green would actually perform worse than McGehee. If not then why not try Green in a worst case remain the same but best case improve scenario. He needs to ask Melvin why they cant send McGehee down but not give up on him, just like they did with Weeks in the past.

 

And he needs to ask Melvin what it would take for them to give up on McGehee and give Green a chance? Instead he asks an easy question, takes Melvin's GM speak answer and is done with it.

[Invader3K]

People stay on Haudricourt about it because the Brewers' organization isn't really saying much of substance regarding Green. You would think he was some journeyman AAAA player with how little he gets mentioned by Roenicke or Melvin.

[Oxy]

You should follow him on twitter....his criticism is almost never "veiled".

Ahh. That could be, I don't do the Twitterverse. I can usually wait the 5 minutes it takes before any worthwhile Tweet is reported.

[Oxy]

I agree, the reason people keep on Haudricourt about this is because he does not ask the right questions or bring up the arguements that have been raised in this thread. It is not enough to just ask Doug Melvin if they will bring up Green. Haudricourt needs to ask why they wouldnt bring up Green given that he is dominating AAA and McGehee is literally the worst non catcher starter in the NL and ask Doug Melvin if he thinks there is any chance that Green would actually perform worse than McGehee. If not then why not try Green in a worst case remain the same but best case improve scenario. He needs to ask Melvin why they cant send McGehee down but not give up on him, just like they did with Weeks in the past.

 

And he needs to ask Melvin what it would take for them to give up on McGehee and give Green a chance? Instead he asks an easy question, takes Melvin's GM speak answer and is done with it.

The answer to that question is "yes, there is a good chance that from this point forward McGehee could outperform what Taylor Green could do." Now if the question is could Taylor Green do worse than what McGehee has already done to this point the answer is probably no.

 

I'm all for bringing up Green and giving him a shot, as I don't think that means the Brewers are "giving up" on McGehee. I really wish that statement was never made, as now whenever Green does get called up it insinuates that the Brewers are now ready to "give up" on McGehee, instead of framing it as giving the guy who is tearing it up behind him a chance.

[geddymd73]

The Brewers shouldn't have to explain their decisions or lack of decisions on Green or anybody in the minors. When the answer is "No, we are not bringing him up", they shouldn't have to explain every reason. In any event, why explain reasons for a decision when obviously the questioners aren't receptive to the answer anyway.

[Invader3K]

I'm all for bringing up Green and giving him a shot, as I don't think that means the Brewers are "giving up" on McGehee. I really wish that statement was never made, as now whenever Green does get called up it insinuates that the Brewers are now ready to "give up" on McGehee, instead of framing it as giving the guy who is tearing it up behind him a chance.

 

This is a great point. I remember a couple years ago when both Gagne and Turnbow had mid-season stints in AAA, and there was absolutely no insinuation that the team had "given up" on them. This idea that there would be some shame in demoting a non-veteran like McGehee right now is rather silly.

[MillerBombers]

The Brewers shouldn't have to explain their decisions or lack of decisions on Green or anybody in the minors. When the answer is "No, we are not bringing him up", they shouldn't have to explain every reason. In any event, why explain reasons for a decision when obviously the questioners aren't receptive to the answer anyway.

Are you Doug Melvin or Tom Haudricourt? If so please stop giving us blue sky.

 

By the way I am joking unless of course you are one of those two. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Bernman23]

The Brewers shouldn't have to explain their decisions or lack of decisions on Green or anybody in the minors. When the answer is "No, we are not bringing him up", they shouldn't have to explain every reason. In any event, why explain reasons for a decision when obviously the questioners aren't receptive to the answer anyway.

You're missing the main point. If their decisions made sense, people wouldn't persistently ask for an explanation. People will stop pestering them and reporters when they start acting in the best interest of the club. It's not like Melvin has earned blind faith from fans. Quite the opposite is true. If this was Ted Thompson the shouts would be more muffled.

[pebadger]

I think with today's move involving Lopez, all the public statements to date, and the general weight of history with respect this this front office's track record, we should just close this thread down now.

 

Unless there is a bus/plane crash, or something like an asteroid strike near Miller Park, we aren't seeing Green until September (if at all). Same thing with Gamel.

[fondybrewfan]

You really think Doug Melvin is not doing what is in the best interest of the club? We have no idea what goes on behind closed doors yet we have a better idea what is in the best interest of the club than Melvin does? Don't get me wrong I am confused as anyone about the Green situation but its not like I think Mevlin is trying to sabotage the club or something. He and RR feel they have a good reason for not bringing him up and maybe they aren't being completely upfront and honest with the media about the situation. Who cares, that kind of misleading mumbo jumbo happens all the time. Why would Melvin & Co come out and say why exactly they won't bring Green up? Probably because they feel he has certain faults. Now would they want to advertise those faults when you are the trading deadline? Probably not.

[TheCrew07]

It's not like Melvin has earned blind faith from fans. Quite the opposite is true. If this was Ted Thompson the shouts would be more muffled.

I'm not sure that's true, prior to the superbowl run I think the vast majority of fans in WI thought Melvin was the better GM and still do. It's the main reason I quit posting over at Lambeauleap, I wasn't going to fight the same fight about organization building on 2 fronts with the same people. Thompson clearly understands how to build an organization as well as how little value there actually is to be found in FA.

 

Generally speaking when signing a name player you're paying for what they've done and not what they are going to do.

[pebadger]

You're right, fondy. Ths thread just illustrates that there is a marked difference between what the fans think/want and they way Melvin thinks. The fans might be right, but fans also have to acknowledge that they are probably working with an informational deficit. At this point I think everything that can be said about the Green situation has been said unitl the facts of the case eveolve further. The facts changed again last night when Lopez was brought up, despite the earlier public comment on the organization's intentions. I don't know what else needs to be said after that.

[Bernman23]

You really think Doug Melvin is not doing what is in the best interest of the club? We have no idea what goes on behind closed doors yet we have a better idea what is in the best interest of the club than Melvin does? Don't get me wrong I am confused as anyone about the Green situation but its not like I think Mevlin is trying to sabotage the club or something. He and RR feel they have a good reason for not bringing him up and maybe they aren't being completely upfront and honest with the media about the situation. Who cares, that kind of misleading mumbo jumbo happens all the time. Why would Melvin & Co come out and say why exactly they won't bring Green up? Probably because they feel he has certain faults. Now would they want to advertise those faults when you are the trading deadline? Probably not.

I really don't think he's likely acting in the best interest of the club because a. he has a poor track record in recent years regarding his decisions, and b. he knows his job is on the line this year so doesn't care about mortgaging a future he won't be a part of unless he wins this season. I don't see why the team can't make the playoffs next year with the additions of Gamel, Green, the allocation of Prince's salary toward bullpen and depth, and all of the remaining talent on the team. Plus, keeping the farm respectable will help us recover quicker after that. So we shouldn't have an "all-in" mentality. We should be buyers, but in terms of spending money, not young talent on the cheap. How does a small market franchise win without young talent on the cheap? The young talent, accumulated by Jack Z., is the primary reason we are in contention in the first place.

[homer]

I'm not sure that's true, prior to the superbowl run I think the vast majority of fans in WI thought Melvin was the better GM and still do. It's the main reason I quit posting over at Lambeauleap, I wasn't going to fight the same fight about organization building on 2 fronts with the same people. Thompson clearly understands how to build an organization as well as how little value there actually is to be found in FA.

 

Generally speaking when signing a name player you're paying for what they've done and not what they are going to do.

Actually, most people on Lambeauleap thought Thompson was doing a great job all along.

 

And I guarantee most people that think Thompson is a worse GM than Melvin still wear Brett Favre jerseys.