The K-Rod trade -- kind of suspiciously cheap?

[brains and braun]

Dumb question, but wouldn't we save the buyout if we offered arby and he accepted?

[RyDogg66]

You offer him arby and tell him that if he accepts, that's great, but he isnt sniffing the ninth inning unless Axford implodes or gets hurt. I doubt setting up for 1.5 years before hitting FA would make him worth MORE on the FA market than he would be after this year.

[adambr2]

Dumb question, but wouldn't we save the buyout if we offered arby and he accepted?

Don't believe so, I think you have to pay the buyout for the option and then any arby deal is on top of that. But it's kind of a moot point anyway since New York is paying for the buyout.

 

[mothershipconnection]

No way they can legitimately have anyone else close without that going to grievance. Fangraphs has a good write up on it, this could blow up in the Brewers face and leave them in a bad spot next season.

 

I think the Brewers could get away with this. Just present them a collection of Roenicke's reasoning for other moves, and then give a nonsensical "one of the hitters in each game was 1-1 lifetime against K-Rod" explanation. It would all appear perfectly consistent and in line with other lineup and bullpen moves.

[endaround]

Given that Saito is arguably a better pitcher, yes you can have someone else close.

[TheCrew]

Saito has K-Rod has 125 saves the past 4 seasons - Saito has 20, not to mention K-Rod is 12 years younger. Brewers would lose that grievance within 30 seconds, there is no doubt that K-Rod is the better closer today. Let's just hope Ax keeps up his production and stays healthy - then this trade is a huge win, especially if they can pull off the arby/picks.

 

My only point was, is that it is a bigger risk than some people are giving it credit for and that's why the Brewers were able to get him on the cheap.

[Funketown]

I don't know how much Saito has left in the tank, but I really don't feel like people realize how dominant he has been over his career. Take a gander at this:

 

304.1 IP, 11.00 K/9, 2.78 BB/9, 2.22 ERA, 2.64 FIP. He's a nasty pitcher.

 

You could make a legitimate argument that Saito is still as good a pitcher as K-Rod. My money is on K-Rod being better from here on out, but I don't think K-Rod would win the grievance (heck, how often do players actually win this type of grievance?).

[TooLiveBrew]

Saito has K-Rod has 125 saves the past 4 seasons - Saito has 20, not to mention K-Rod is 12 years younger. Brewers would lose that grievance within 30 seconds, there is no doubt that K-Rod is the better closer today.

 

There's no way you know what would happen. The Brewers don't owe K-Rod anything, they didn't sign him to close, nor did they acquire him to close.

 

 

(heck, how often do players actually win this type of grievance?)

 

Or even file for it?

[adambr2]

The MLBPA is going too far if they're going to start dictating managerial decisions.

 

Then again, in the case of our manager, maybe we could use their help.

[TheCrew]

Saito has K-Rod has 125 saves the past 4 seasons - Saito has 20, not to mention K-Rod is 12 years younger. Brewers would lose that grievance within 30 seconds, there is no doubt that K-Rod is the better closer today.

 

There's no way you know what would happen. The Brewers don't owe K-Rod anything, they didn't sign him to close, nor did they acquire him to close.

 

(heck, how often do players actually win this type of grievance?)

 

Or even file for it?

No, I don't know what would happen for sure - but Boras/K-Rod would have a darn good case: all they need to do is show the Brewers made the move to avoid paying his option next year. Going with a lesser player would do that. (and I'm not going to get drawn into a debate of Saito vs K-Rod)

 

Point is, that there is risk there and it could go badly and leave the Brewers in a very tough spot financially next season - heck, what if Saito went down again in addition to Ax? You can't stop playing players to avoid paying bonus/option salaries and you can't avoid playing players at their natural position to avoid paying them a bonus. K-Rod is a closer, if there is no better option on the team and they continue to avoid using him in the closer role (again this would only be if Ax was hurt) he would have a very good case if it went to that.

 

Personally, I think if it came to that - Boras would work out a buyout with the Brewers to cash in on K-Rod being a FA.

[Invader3K]

Actually, if K-Rod goes to FA next year, it is better for Boras. Boras doesn't make any money off K-Rod's current contract.

[Raw Biz]

TheCrew wrote:

No, I don't know what would happen for sure - but Boras/K-Rod would have a darn good case: all they need to do is show the Brewers made the move to avoid paying his option next year. Going with a lesser player would do that. (and I'm not going to get drawn into a debate of Saito vs K-Rod)

 

Point is, that there is risk there and it could go badly and leave the Brewers in a very tough spot financially next season - heck, what if Saito went down again in addition to Ax? You can't stop playing players to avoid paying bonus/option salaries and you can't avoid playing players at their natural position to avoid paying them a bonus. K-Rod is a closer, if there is no better option on the team and they continue to avoid using him in the closer role (again this would only be if Ax was hurt) he would have a very good case if it went to that.

 

Personally, I think if it came to that - Boras would work out a buyout with the Brewers to cash in on K-Rod being a FA.

How is a closer a natural position? How is it any different than any other relief pitcher? Sure there might be a different mentality to it but I wouldn't classify it as a natural position over any other relief pitcher. Also, it's not like it would have to be all or nothing. I said in an early post (not sure if it was this thread or a different one) that if KRod struggled, the team could easily justify using other pitchers. They could also go to a bullpen by committee and still allow KRod to get some saves but also use other guys and claim they were going with matchups or wanting to keep guys fresh. They've already said that they were going to use matchups to determine who closes between KRod and Axford so why not claim to use matchups with KRod, Saito, and Hawkins. Grievances are difficult to win, which is why there are few filed. The burden to prove is on the filing party.

[GAME05]

i think i read it somewhere on TradeRumors, but apparently the Brewers were actually on K-Rod's 10-team no-trade list. but the reason the Mets made the deal so quickly is that K-Rod's former agent (not Boras) didn't actually submit K-Rod's list of teams. as soon as he switched agents to Boras, the Mets knew that Boras would fix this and then use the no-trade list as leverage.

 

another article on the site notes that it would hurt K-Rod's FA future if he complained about being in a set-up role.

[Raw Biz]

i think i read it somewhere on TradeRumors, but apparently the Brewers were actually on K-Rod's 10-team no-trade list. but the reason the Mets made the deal so quickly is that K-Rod's former agent (not Boras) didn't actually submit K-Rod's list of teams. as soon as he switched agents to Boras, the Mets knew that Boras would fix this and then use the no-trade list as leverage.

 

another article on the site notes that it would hurt K-Rod's FA future if he complained about being in a set-up role.

All correct and has been discussed in the KRod traded thread.

[interestobserver]

Dumb question, but wouldn't we save the buyout if we offered arby and he accepted?

Don't believe so, I think you have to pay the buyout for the option and then any arby deal is on top of that. But it's kind of a moot point anyway since New York is paying for the buyout.

Not quite a moot point, because if there is no buyout, the Mets are off the hook. Whether that affects how the deal was constructed is unknown. ie, Mets could have sent X amount of cash. If there is no buyout, that's extra money in the deal.

 

[brains and braun]

Yeah, I figured the Mets sent a certain amount of money along with KRod, buyout included. I was wondering if we didn't buy him out, and he didn't reach the games finished for the 17.5M next year, could we offer arby and just consider the 3.5M buyout part of his 2012 salary?

[TheCrew07]

Why would we ever want to spend that money on a relief pitcher? 14 million is just as outrageous as 17.5...

[brains and braun]

I'm not talking about 17.5M, I'm talking about if he winds up getting like 9 in arby. That number would wind up like 5.5M with the saved buyout. My point is the risk is maybe not as large as some are saying when it comes to offering arby. He probably doesn't take it anyway, but if he does, 5-6M for one year isn't a total disaster for KRod.

[endaround]

How is the buyout saved? He needs to be bought out before he can be offered arby (if he can be offered arby after being bought out, that depends on the contract I think).

The reason why there might not be that much risk is that even if he accepts arby there should still be a team out there willing to take him on for a one year deal at $10m or so. The Brewers won't get much back but won't lose much.

[Invader3K]

This is confusing.

 

Ken Rosenthal: Sources: K-Rod has agreed to waive $17.5M vesting option in exchange for additional compensation. Will be FA at end of season.

Edit: Sounds like thinking is that Brewers can now use Rodriguez in closer role if they want without option vest.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Well, this is an interesting twist. I bet the Mets are pissed, lol. I do like being able to use him how Roenicke and Melvin see fit though. Either way, it's a great 8th and 9th inning tandem. And even if Ax struggles, at least there is no worry of having to switch over to K-Rod now either.

[Invader3K]

Yeah, it's nice that Roenicke can use either option now without worrying about contract obligations.

[TheCrew]

Not that surprising, but still great news - Boras wants K-Rod to be a FA and he just gave the Brewers the opportunity to use him however they see fit and thus maximize his clients value in the process. Will only increase K-Rod's value from here on out and now it looks like a lock the Brewers will get the comp picks unless there is some agreement within there that the Brewers do not offer Arby.

 

Huge, huge win here for the Brewers - like Christmas in July.

[TheCrew]

i think i read it somewhere on TradeRumors, but apparently the Brewers were actually on K-Rod's 10-team no-trade list. but the reason the Mets made the deal so quickly is that K-Rod's former agent (not Boras) didn't actually submit K-Rod's list of teams. as soon as he switched agents to Boras, the Mets knew that Boras would fix this and then use the no-trade list as leverage.

 

another article on the site notes that it would hurt K-Rod's FA future if he complained about being in a set-up role.

All correct and in the most recent issue of SI, K-Rod is quoted as saying he doesn't mind being traded to be a setup man as long as it is a contending team.