100% Speculation -- Guess the two minor league PTBNL's for K-Rod

[Kricket755]

Call me a crazy optimist, but I just don't see the PsTBNL being close to impact guys. I'll guess Hunter Morris + Jimmy Nelson. My second guess is that the Mets & Brewers will wind up making a cash deal... and that actually might be my first guess.

If they do decide to make this a strictly cash deal, do they announce the deal as completed after the decision or do we, as fans, simply find out by the hard way (by waiting). I believe (but not sure) the Carlos Villanueva deal was announced as completed when the trade became an official cash deal. Seems as if the Mets will save face by waiting a few months to complete a cash-only deal when their fans have forgetten about the PTBNL's.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

And honestly what well-informed Mets fan would be upset with the team just dumping such an albatross of a contract, even if they don't get middling to decent prospects in return?

[jjfanec]

And honestly what well-informed Mets fan would be upset with the team just dumping such an albatross of a contract, even if they don't get middling to decent prospects in return?

I agree this was a win for both teams. The Mets were almost forced to pitch Krod in the 9th so he would have reached that incredibly high option. The Brewers are not forced (barring injury) to do that so the option wont be reached. KRod does not come out bad either because he will be a free agent now after this year and will get a solid contract from a team looking for a closer.

[Mass Haas]

McCalvy: Melvin hints no ‘top’ prospects in K-Rod deal

[Mass Haas]

WSSP Audio --

 

07/13/11 Brewers' General Manager Doug Melvin talks about trading for K-Rod

[SoCalBrewfan]

I'd guess an OF from the Schafer / Haydel / KeDavis / Komatsu / Richardson group and a RHP like Miller / Ross / Siedel / Burgos.

[Raw Biz]

After looking into this a little bit more, I believe a player on the 40 man doesn't eliminate them from being a PTBNL. Including PTBNL is a way to have access to players on the 40 man if the said player they want wouldn't pass through waivers.

 

I found this here...

 

• If the player is on the 40, there are two reasons why he wouldn’t have

been traded at the time — he has to pass through waivers, or he’s

disabled. If he didn’t pass through waivers, both teams would simply

wait until after the season, at which time the waiver period ends. The

disabled list also ends after the season.

I've always been under the impression that 40 man guys can still be a PTBNL as well. Mass, can you please explain which it is and why?

[paul253]

McCalvy: Melvin hints no ‘top’ prospects in K-Rod deal

That's good, except Milwaukee doesn't have any top prospects in their system so it pretty much leaves anyone. I have no idea who this will include, but I have a list of guys I really, really hope it doesn't include. Peralta, Thornburg, Scarpetta, Fiers, Schafer, Komatsu, Khris Davis, and Gennett. I think some people are really underestimating Khris Davis and Logan Schafer. I can see Davis eventually ending up at first base if Gamel and Hunter Morris don't pan out. And Schafer I predict as our starting centerfielder in 2013. If this ends up being something like Jimmy Nelson, Del Howell, Lee Haydel, Cody Hawn, etc I'll be thrilled.

[jjfanec]

McCalvy: Melvin hints no ‘top’ prospects in K-Rod deal

 

That's good, except Milwaukee doesn't have any top prospects in their system so it pretty much leaves anyone. I have no idea who this will include, but I have a list of guys I really, really hope it doesn't include. Peralta, Thornburg, Scarpetta, Fiers, Schafer, Komatsu, Khris Davis, and Gennett. I think some people are really underestimating Khris Davis and Logan Schafer. I can see Davis eventually ending up at first base if Gamel and Hunter Morris don't pan out. And Schafer I predict as our starting centerfielder in 2013. If this ends up being something like Jimmy Nelson, Del Howell, Lee Haydel, Cody Hawn, etc I'll be thrilled.

Obviously Melvin is talking about our top prospects not in relation to other top prospects. That should take out Peralta, Scarpetta, Thornburg, Gamel, Green and likely Gennett, Gindl and Schafer. I am not sure on Khris Davis, Fiers, or Komatsu

[Mass Haas]

After looking into this a little bit more, I believe a player on the 40 man doesn't eliminate them from being a PTBNL. Including PTBNL is a way to have access to players on the 40 man if the said player they want wouldn't pass through waivers.

 

I found this here...

 

• If the player is on the 40, there are two reasons why he wouldn’t have been traded at the time — he has to pass through waivers, or he’s disabled. If he didn’t pass through waivers, both teams would simply wait until after the season, at which time the waiver period ends. The disabled list also ends after the season.

I've always been under the impression that 40 man guys can still be a PTBNL as well. Mass, can you please explain which it is and why?

OK, on a technicality then, the players could be Brandon Kintzler or Manny Parra based on the injury factor (it's not). The other mention about waivers would imply only after July 31st. The link you provide discusses a post-July 31 situation.

 

Hope that helps.

 

[MillerBombers]

Makes sense, guess I didn't read close enough. Thanks Mass.

[CheezWizHed]

My second guess is that the Mets & Brewers will wind up making a cash deal... and that actually might be my first guess.

 

So we end up trading CV for K-Rod? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

Another name that needs to be protected from this list would be Bucci. Which shouldn't be an issue, since the Brewers seem pretty high on him.

[jjfanec]

Another name that needs to be protected from this list would be Bucci. Which shouldn't be an issue, since the Brewers seem pretty high on him.

I actually wouldnt be surprised to see Bucci be one of the players. I like him but I am not as sold on him as some are. He has cooled off after a hot start.

[CheeseheadInIllinois]

After looking into this a little bit more, I believe a player on the 40 man doesn't eliminate them from being a PTBNL. Including PTBNL is a way to have access to players on the 40 man if the said player they want wouldn't pass through waivers.

 

I found this here...

 

• If the player is on the 40, there are two reasons why he wouldn’t have been traded at the time — he has to pass through waivers, or he’s disabled. If he didn’t pass through waivers, both teams would simply wait until after the season, at which time the waiver period ends. The disabled list also ends after the season.

I've always been under the impression that 40 man guys can still be a PTBNL as well. Mass, can you please explain which it is and why?

OK, on a technicality then, the players could be Brandon Kintzler or Manny Parra based on the injury factor (it's not). The other mention about waivers would imply only after July 31st. The link you provide discusses a post-July 31 situation.

 

Hope that helps.

That article, though, was talking about a situation where the PTBNL had already been decided upon, not a list and give the team a chance to scout situation as it appears to be here. It was simply saying that it would be dumb not to announce the player if he was on the 40-man unless it was one of those situations, not that it is against the rules. From what I've been able to piece together from a number of articles (including this one) it sounds as though 40-man roster guys can be the PTBNL as long as they haven't played for the Brewers this year (although some make it sound as if only players on the 25-man roster any time between now and when the PTBNLs are finalized are ineligible, so that would be even less restrictive).

 

As for guesses, given the Mets' lack of catching prospects, I wonder if Garfield or, if 40-man guys are allowed, Maldonado are going to be part of the deal.

[CheezWizHed]

Well, he had a string of 3 bad starts in June, which prompted the Brewers to give him 10 days rest. And since then he has had 4 good starts.

 

And he is about to turn 21.

[The Truth]

My guess: Katin and Kintzler

[Mass Haas]

My guess: Katin and Kintzler

A link to the original post link as to why it won't be Katin.

 

 

[brewmann04]

It will be a position player as well as pitcher Maybe Scotter and Bucci.

[Mass Haas]

More audio with Doug Melvin, this time with Homer on ESPN540.

[TurkWendell]

Hey all-

 

Met fan here, weighing in. Not trolling, I swear.

 

First off, just wanted to perhaps correct something I see floating around here: I'm like 99% sure players on the 40 man roster are eligible to be PTBNLs. Its only players on the major league roster (including DL) that are off-limits when you are dealing intra-league. And if they were talking inter-league (i.e., Mets were in the AL), even those guys would be eligible, too. If you have something that decisively says otherwise, I'm willing to issue a mea-culpa, but I'm pretty certain on that.

 

Anyway, just wanted to say I (and I know many others) are enjoying the convo here about some potential PTBNLs. I know its something of an anonymous system with having been largely gutted of its "name" talent this past offseason, so every time I see a new name I look them up on milb.com. Obviously I have my preferences here, which probably directly contradict your own http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif, but should be interesting to follow regardless.

 

Anyway, wanted to relay something to you from this afternoon here in NY. Sandy Alderson was on WFAN after his formal press conference, and concluded his interview with the following, in response to a question about when we would learn the identities of the 2 PTBNLs:

 

"We have one guy we're deciding on who has been in the big leagues, has been reasonably successful in the big leagues, he would have a role for us right away and we could decide on him shortly."

 

He stated that they might chose 1 guy quickly and leave the other guy til later in the season.

 

Anyway, I was wondering if you had any clue who he could be referring to here. A quick perusal of your upper levels seem to narrow it down pretty much to Gamel (obviously the Met fan preference) or Herrera, and since Herrera was just recently on waivers and we seemingly passed on him to allow him to reach you, I highly doubt there's much interest there. But of course, I could absolutely be overlooking someone. So hoping you guys might be able to weigh in and shed some light.

 

Thanks a lot all!

[TheCrew07]

If we trade Kris Davis for 30 innings of KRod I'll be absolutely livid, as will I if we gave up Manzanillo. Davis has legit power and Manzanillo is the only top tier power arm left in the system now that Jeffress is gone and Rogers is hurt.

 

I'd be fine trading one of the 1B like BK, or an OF like Haydel, and a pitcher like Nelson, I guess I could even live with a reliever like Meadows who's going to be solid but doesn't wow you with his stuff. Anyone who has legit talent, or a stand out tool (Davis/Manzanillo), or is a starting pitcher and is having success should be left alone... just say no to Fiers, Bucci, Heckathorn, or anyone along those lines. If you want to trade a starting pitcher then go with guys who have averagish stuff or are underperforming like Merklinger, Nelson, Ross, etc... and no Ross isn't performing well and hasn't had much success in 2 months.

 

I find trading for relief pitching to be very underwhelming, there just isn't much value there in half season... or a full season for that matter. Honestly, I'd rather only ever trade relief prospects for relievers.

 

edit. McClendon is a reliever who's had MLB success, there's no way you get Gamel for KRod with Prince leaving as a FA.

[jjfanec]

Guys who have been in the majors and been reasonably successful could be Stetter, Difelice, Mike Rivera, McClendon and maybe a few others. The Brewers have already said they are not giving up top prospects and Gamel is a top prospect and Fielder's replacement

[And That]

Anyway, I was wondering if you had any clue who he could be referring to here. A quick perusal of your upper levels seem to narrow it down pretty much to Gamel (obviously the Met fan preference) or Herrera

McClendon, Dillard, Nieves, Rivera, Almonte, Boggs, Stetter (injured, but rehabbing), DiFelice (injured), Kintzler (injured) and Green (I don't think you want him back) have all also been up with the Brewers this year.

 

Parra (injured), Maysonet, Carroll, Brown, de la Cruz, Narron (like 5 years ago), Butler, Wright (injured) and James have been in the big leagues, just not this year.

 

Not all of them have been "reasonably successful" but I guess it depends on your definition.

 

Edit: Oh, and welcome. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[YoungGeezy]

Hey all-

 

Met fan here, weighing in. Not trolling, I swear.

 

First off, just wanted to perhaps correct something I see floating around here: I'm like 99% sure players on the 40 man roster are eligible to be PTBNLs. Its only players on the major league roster (including DL) that are off-limits when you are dealing intra-league. And if they were talking inter-league (i.e., Mets were in the AL), even those guys would be eligible, too. If you have something that decisively says otherwise, I'm willing to issue a mea-culpa, but I'm pretty certain on that.

 

Anyway, just wanted to say I (and I know many others) are enjoying the convo here about some potential PTBNLs. I know its something of an anonymous system with having been largely gutted of its "name" talent this past offseason, so every time I see a new name I look them up on milb.com. Obviously I have my preferences here, which probably directly contradict your own http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif, but should be interesting to follow regardless.

 

Anyway, wanted to relay something to you from this afternoon here in NY. Sandy Alderson was on WFAN after his formal press conference, and concluded his interview with the following, in response to a question about when we would learn the identities of the 2 PTBNLs:

 

"We have one guy we're deciding on who has been in the big leagues, has been reasonably successful in the big leagues, he would have a role for us right away and we could decide on him shortly."

 

He stated that they might chose 1 guy quickly and leave the other guy til later in the season.

 

Anyway, I was wondering if you had any clue who he could be referring to here. A quick perusal of your upper levels seem to narrow it down pretty much to Gamel (obviously the Met fan preference) or Herrera, and since Herrera was just recently on waivers and we seemingly passed on him to allow him to reach you, I highly doubt there's much interest there. But of course, I could absolutely be overlooking someone. So hoping you guys might be able to weigh in and shed some light.

 

Thanks a lot all!

Thanks for the information, makes you wonder. Dillard and McClendon jump off the paper to me as possible options (they do need to replace a bullpen pitcher). Rogers popped in my head but with the injury and rough season not sure if he'd be able to "have a spot right now." Herrera seem unlikely. De la Cruz has pitched in the majors and is having a solid season but doubt him as well. Boggs and Carroll fit the bill as well.

 

Gamel I have a hard time seeing. With Prince likely gone, McGehee's struggles, and the fact he has been considered a top prospect in the system for awhile even considering his age) hard to believe it is him.

 

McClendon or Dillard leaning towards t being McClendon

[Raw Biz]

I'm like 99% sure players on the 40 man roster are eligible to be PTBNLs. Its only players on the major league roster (including DL) that are off-limits when you are dealing intra-league. And if they were talking inter-league (i.e., Mets were in the AL), even those guys would be eligible, too. If you have something that decisively says otherwise, I'm willing to issue a mea-culpa, but I'm pretty certain on that.

 

"We have one guy we're deciding on who has been in the big leagues, has been reasonably successful in the big leagues, he would have a role for us right away and we could decide on him shortly."

 

He stated that they might chose 1 guy quickly and leave the other guy til later in the season.

 

Anyway, I was wondering if you had any clue who he could be referring to here. A quick perusal of your upper levels seem to narrow it down pretty much to Gamel (obviously the Met fan preference) or Herrera, and since Herrera was just recently on waivers and we seemingly passed on him to allow him to reach you, I highly doubt there's much interest there. But of course, I could absolutely be overlooking someone. So hoping you guys might be able to weigh in and shed some light.

With the PTBNL thing, I too always thought that the rule was the player couldn't play in the same league from the time the trade was announced until the end of the year. This was put in place to prevent a situation where a guy is playing against the team he is to be traded to and purposefully plays bad. So that means that the PTBNL cannot be on the 25 man for the rest of the year but could still be on the 40. Also, someone who was already on the 25 man earlier but won't be for the rest of the year is also eligible. If Mass or anyone else has any literature or links to contradict this, please share.

As for the guy who was in the majors recently, I highly doubt its Gamel because Melvin came out and said it wasn't considered a "top" prospect. Maybe Melvin doesn't consider Gamel a prospect anymore but I highly doubt it.

edit: I see jjfanec, And That, and YoungGeezy all beat me to a list of guys who have been called up this year so you can check those out.