K-Rod (and cash) acquired; The cost? LH reliever Daniel Ray Herrera and low-A RHP Adrian Rosario

[HiAndTight]

Gamel and Thornburg?? I'll miss Thornburg.

 

Boras always wants his players to be bid on in Free Agency, so I'm still thinking that the vesting part of the contract must have been dropped as a condition of the trade. K-Rod also currently has a $3.5M buyout, and I'm thinking that is now a significantly higher figure, which the Brewers will be automatically picking up.

 

not certain i'm ready to conclude that the Brewers got K-Rod for "peanuts" until I know what we gave up. Gamel and a decent prospect?--that seems fair.

I don't even think you can give up a player on the 40 man as a PTBNL.

I'm pretty sure the PTBNL cannot be in the same league as the player traded for. So that would mean 25 man roster no but could still be on 40 man.

Stevo, if the option is declined, I believe he becomes an instant free agent, similar to if he were released, so no picks.

 

Well have to get some clarification because I think you can offer him arbitration and I still don't think a player on the 40 man can be included as a PTBNL.

 

Not real confident though.

[pmallon]

From what I gather they can be on the 40 man roster.

 

If the player is on the 40, there are two reasons why he wouldn’t have been

traded at the time — he has to pass through waivers, or he’s disabled. If he

didn’t pass through waivers, both teams would simply wait until after the

season, at which time the waiver period ends. The disabled list also ends after

the season.

 

http://futureangels.mlblogs.com/2009/09/01/ptbnl-hysteria/

[Raw Biz]

not certain i'm ready to conclude that the Brewers got K-Rod for "peanuts" until I know what we gave up. Gamel and a decent prospect?--that seems fair.

 

That doesn't seem fair at all. This is a guy the Mets needed to dump. If the Brewers gave up any prospect(s) of real value, this deal will have been a bad one.

I think it was way more than needed to dump, i think the Mets were desperate to dump K-Rod at some point before the trade deadline.

 

With his option for next year vesting at 17.5 million if he finished only 20 more games, they had to very badly want him off the team because unlike the Brewers, the Mets likely couldn't get away with putting Rodriguez into a setup role without the union filing a grievance.

 

Since the Brewers already have an established closer, they wouldn't be demoting Rodriguez by putting him in a setup role that almost assuredly will result in his big option not vesting. Thus, i think the Mets were going to trade K-Rod no matter what, it was only a matter of when, to what team, and what they got in return, not at all if.

This article pretty much says the same thing. Basically simply trading him to someone for anything would be a win for the Mets.

[danzig6767]

5 Mil?? That's just about what he's owed the rest of the year. I doubt that's right.

 

I asked it a few pages ago, but it probably got buried. Anyone know if the Brewers can get comp picks for him even if they buy him out? I want to say they cannot, but I'm not sure.

What you need to factor in also is that Rodriguez will get a 3.5 million dollar check next year to buy out his option. So even if the Mets pay the vast majority of his salary for this year, they'd save the 3.5 million by the Brewers instead having to pay the buyout.

 

Lastly and likely more important to the Mets, this saves them from having K-Rod's 17.5 million dollar option for next year vesting because had he not been traded, the Mets would have had to keep allowing Rodriguez to close games. Demoting him to a setup role simply to prevent his option from vesting would have assuredly resulted in the union filing a grievance.

 

So in totality, this trade would save them about 20-21 million, even if they had to throw in 5 million to get a deal done.

[Raw Biz]

According to this article, the team could still offer him arbitration. I thought because it was a vesting option, they couldn't but I was ignoring the fact that it also had a buyout, meaning there was a team option as well.

"According to a recent posting of MLBTR’s updated Elias Rankings, K-Rod has joined Carlos Beltran and Jose Reyes as the Mets only Type-A free agents. That means if a team offers him arbitration at the end of this year(assuming his vesting option doesn’t kick in) and K-Rod turns it down and signs elsewhere, the team signing him forfeits their first round selection in the 2012 First Year Player Draft as well as a supplemental pick between rounds 1 and 2. If the team signing K-Rod has a pick in the top 15, they then forfeit their 2nd round selection(or another later pick depending on if that team signs more than one Type-A free agent, which is decided by the players ranking under the Elias system).

What all that in the last paragraph means is that Rodriguez could have added value to another team should he get traded. If he is traded to another team where he would set up, he is less likely to finish off 55 games. That would prevent his option from picking up and make him a free agent at the end of this season. A guy like Frankie Rodriguez solidifying the 8th inning while also having the potential to bring in 2 high end draft picks could be really enticing to a contender. It could also help the Mets get a good piece in exchange for their closer while also shedding some unwanted future salary."

Edit: assuming this is true, would the Brewers offer him arbitration? I think they would but there would always be a chance he accepts and still gets something like 15 mil.

[HiAndTight]

From what I gather they can be on the 40 man roster.

 

If the player is on the 40, there are two reasons why he wouldn’t have been

traded at the time — he has to pass through waivers, or he’s disabled. If he

didn’t pass through waivers, both teams would simply wait until after the

season, at which time the waiver period ends. The disabled list also ends after

the season.

 

http://futureangels.mlblogs.com/2009/09/01/ptbnl-hysteria/

But neither of these apply to Gamel.

[danzig6767]

According to this article, the team could still offer him arbitration. I thought because it was a vesting option, they couldn't but I was ignoring the fact that it also had a buyout, meaning there was a team option as well.

"According to a recent posting of MLBTR’s updated Elias Rankings, K-Rod has joined Carlos Beltran and Jose Reyes as the Mets only Type-A free agents. That means if a team offers him arbitration at the end of this year(assuming his vesting option doesn’t kick in) and K-Rod turns it down and signs elsewhere, the team signing him forfeits their first round selection in the 2012 First Year Player Draft as well as a supplemental pick between rounds 1 and 2. If the team signing K-Rod has a pick in the top 15, they then forfeit their 2nd round selection(or another later pick depending on if that team signs more than one Type-A free agent, which is decided by the players ranking under the Elias system).

What all that in the last paragraph means is that Rodriguez could have added value to another team should he get traded. If he is traded to another team where he would set up, he is less likely to finish off 55 games. That would prevent his option from picking up and make him a free agent at the end of this season. A guy like Frankie Rodriguez solidifying the 8th inning while also having the potential to bring in 2 high end draft picks could be really enticing to a contender. It could also help the Mets get a good piece in exchange for their closer while also shedding some unwanted future salary."

Offering Rodriguez arbitration would strike me as way to risky because i'd assume that Boras would argue that Rodriguez should get paid closer money because he had 23/3 save to blown save ratio with the Mets, and was only removed from the closer role because he was traded. So if he pitched well with the Brewers, i'd guess that Boras would ask for a salary around the 10 million range in arbitration if we offered arbitration and he accepted it.

[pmallon]

But neither of these apply to Gamel.

 

Correct. I was just trying to answer your question about if they could be on the 40 man roster and traded. If this article is correct and those are the only two ways a player on the 40 man is a PTBNL, we can be assured it's not Gamel. Otherwise he would have been named already.

[HiAndTight]

Offering Rodriguez arbitration would strike me as way to risky because

i'd assume that Boras would argue that Rodriguez should get paid closer

money because he had 23/3 save to blown save ratio with the Mets, and

was only removed from the closer role because he was traded. So if he

pitched well with the Brewers, i'd guess that Boras would ask for a

salary around the 10 million range in arbitration if we offered

arbitration and he accepted it.

 

I can't see Boras having K-rod accept a one year deal though.

[pitchleague]

well, looks like the Brewers have pulled off the first coup of the season and begun the trading frenzy 3 weeks early again (see: 2008). Glad to hear it, the bullpen was something, to me, that needed an improvement. I really wish we traded for Jose Reyes instead for a Mets salary dump and then go after Heath Bell or Mike Adams, but the Padres would have wanted real prospects and not just salary dump.

 

Anyways, I'm even more excited to head to the games in PHX next week now. Pretty awesome night to be a Milwaukee Brewers fan (MVP, home field advantage, and K-Rod.) Except for the guy from Chevy dissing Milwaukee twice by calling it a "town."

[topper09er]

Is there a stat on how often Boras clients accept an arbitration offer?

[bjkrautk]

The one thing I don't get about this deal is how much better could DM's offer have been compared to other teams with an established closer? If the rest of his season's salary is being paid by the Mets, either a few teams balked at the risk, or the Crew has someone that the Mets liked more than their alternatives.

 

(Speaking of risk, if he blows a lead in the 8th on the road, and no one pitches the bottom of the 9th, does that count against the 55?)

 

No source, or even education to back a guess, but I kind of hope Katin is one of the PTBNL. He's about as ML ready as he'd ever be, but he's not really in the organization's plans, since he's blocked by Braun & Hart. Not sure if they have an in-house option to replace Beltran for next year, and too tired to look it up.

[pmallon]

I agree that I don't see Boras accepting arbitration. I also don't think K-rod hired Boras with the intention of accepting. He is looking for one last pay day.

[nate82]

Funny, I thought this was a Melvin move back in April.

[TooLiveBrew]

No major prospects given up I hear from sources. Mets may have choice of a between a few guys at end of season that more middling. Thornburg is NOT involved with this deal. Cash was main reason this deal got done.

Next up is to replace Betancourt with an average guy and then go from there.

I wanted to go back to this post. I haven't always agreed with bobskube, but I've never gotten the impression that his Brewers connection wasn't legit.

 

Maybe your info winds up being right, maybe it winds up being wrong, but seeing you post this makes me stop worrying about who was given up (if anyone, ultimately).

[danzig6767]

Offering Rodriguez arbitration would strike me as way to risky because

i'd assume that Boras would argue that Rodriguez should get paid closer

money because he had 23/3 save to blown save ratio with the Mets, and

was only removed from the closer role because he was traded. So if he

pitched well with the Brewers, i'd guess that Boras would ask for a

salary around the 10 million range in arbitration if we offered

arbitration and he accepted it.

 

I can't see Boras having K-rod accept a one year deal though.

Depends on how the rest of the league views Rodriguez given his decreased velocity. Maybe if he's lights out with us the rest of the way it could change things, but i just can't envision someone giving Rodriguez say a 3 year deal at pretty significant money, i sure wouldn't. Granted, it only takes one team though and i guess i could see a team giving him something like a 3/yr 19-21ish million dollar deal assuming he does well the rest of the season.

[southpaw121505]

The one thing I don't get about this deal is how much better could DM's offer have been compared to other teams with an established closer? If the rest of his season's salary is being paid by the Mets, either a few teams balked at the risk, or the Crew has someone that the Mets liked more than their alternatives.

I wouldn't be concerned about that. The Mets were not in a position to be trying to create a bidding war. If it got closer to the deadline and other teams balked because of the contract situation then they could have really screwed themselves by trying to hold out for a slightly better package. They probably could have waited and seen if they could get more. I see it more as DM being aggressive saying hey will save you from that contract and them not being able to pass that chance up.

[danzig6767]

https://twitter.com/#!/JimBowdenESPNxm/status/90998030320414721

 

@JimBowdenESPNxm

JIM BOWDEN

 

 

Players to be named later must be announced within 6 months, K-Rod performance with Brewers will affect final player selection

[Mass Haas]

I've seen a couple of people mention Brendan Katin.

 

Katin is hurt (his knee pain may be chronic), and moreso, is a minor league free agent in October.

 

Here is the Brewers' 40-man roster, which is technically a 41-man roster because of Manny Parra's status on the 60-day DL. There are actually two openings on the 40-man at this time.

 

None of the names on that list can be PTBNL's.

 

So it won't be Dillard, Farris, Gamel, Herrera, Kintzler, Maldonado, McClendon, Peralta, Rivas, Rogers, or Scarpetta. You can dismiss those minor league names (major league DL in Kintzler's case) off your discussion list.

 

It's not going to be a #1 prospect guy like Tyler Thornburg, because even the Mets wouldn't need a list to study to grab him right away.

 

For our minor league followers, I'm guessing an Austin Ross / Lee Haydel package. We'll actualy set up a guessing thread on the minor league forum for kicks.

 

Cash prizes (well, not really...)

 

EDIT: Here's the 100% speculative guessing thread.

[dlk9s]

Jim Bowden actually does a nice job for ESPN.com, but holy crap does this sentence make no sense at all. When talking about what NL Central teams need to do to keep up with the Brewers:

 

"The Cardinals need to acquire a starting pitcher, such as Heath Bell, and I think a healthy Rafael Furcal."

[Never Outhustled]

It seems obvious that K-Rod's vesting option and 10 team no-trade clause killed his trade value. Nobody wanted to aquire him to close. I'm not worried about who we give up, because we have nothing besides Thornburg, and the Mets would want to announce his addition immediately if he was an option.

[Invader3K]

Well, this trade came out of nowhere, and while I personally didn't see the bullpen as a huge need, this is a nice move. A half season of K-Rod for around $3.5 million is a great deal.

[Bombers]

I like the trade. And The two players we give up will be pretty meaningless if K-Rod becomes Type A or Type B free agent at year end. Since it is a vesting option, that we all hope doesn't vest, do we get Type A / Type B? Or since we still have to buy him out, do we sacrafice getting the extra picks?

 

 

Edit - I found my answer on page 8 of this thread. Looks like we can still offer him arbitration to get the picks. I would be shocked if he accepted arbitration at 12 Mil for 1 year when he could easily still get a 2 or 3 year deal for $20+. Heck, Gagne got $10 mil for 1 year.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I like the trade. And The two players we give up will be pretty meaningless if K-Rod becomes Type A or Type B free agent at year end. Since it is a vesting option, that we all hope doesn't vest, do we get Type A / Type B? Or since we still have to buy him out, do we sacrafice getting the extra picks?

I don't see them offering arby in this case, so Type A/Type B won't matter. There's a chance, no matter how small, that he accepts the arby offer, and there's no way Melvin and co. want to be on the hook for a 10 mil + salary for K-Rod next year.

[igor67]

The size of that buyout, particularly through the Boras lens makes me think that he likes the idea of it not vesting. He can make the same salary next year by his new contract only paying him 14 million a year, which is still fairly steep but Boras probably figures he can get that, and if he gets him say a 3 year 45 million dollar contract K-rod is way ahead. Someone else brought this up, but if the Brewers can do the buyout, but still offer arby this could be a ridiculously good trade. If Doug can find that acceptable with the stick and average defender at SS this team is looks really good down the stretch.