Aramis Ramirez

[HiAndTight]

So we give up better talent? Ramirez has negative value because whoever gets him likely has to pick up his terrible option. So his overall value is like -$5m to -$7m. I don't see how the Cubs get anything for him.

Bruce Levine just said that there is no vesting option, simply that he gets a 1 million dollar "relocation" bonus.

[endaround]

So we give up better talent? Ramirez has negative value because whoever gets him likely has to pick up his terrible option. So his overall value is like -$5m to -$7m. I don't see how the Cubs get anything for him.

Bruce Levine just said that there is no vesting option, simply that he gets a 1 million dollar "relocation" bonus.

Right but he has 5 and 10 rights and so can veto any trade. Now maybe he'll just waive it, but I doubt it and so my guess is the receiving team has to pick up his option.

[HiAndTight]

So we give up better talent? Ramirez has negative value because whoever gets him likely has to pick up his terrible option. So his overall value is like -$5m to -$7m. I don't see how the Cubs get anything for him.

Bruce Levine just said that there is no vesting option, simply that he gets a 1 million dollar "relocation" bonus.

Right but he has 5 and 10 rights and so can veto any trade. Now maybe he'll just waive it, but I doubt it and so my guess is the receiving team has to pick up his option.

Well, he's also reportedly said that he doesn't want his option picked up and that a part of any trade would be to eliminate the option as he wants to hit the FA market this off-season.

 

I don't think the option is all that big of a deal. He, like KRod, despite obviously not making the 16-17 million next year on a new deal, could likely both see long term deals averaging 10 million plus a year.

 

Plus, if as a condition of the trade the option was dropped, we'd be looking at more compensation picks. I haven't looked at Elias, but you'd have to assume he's a Type A. That means potentially 3 first round picks and 3 supplemental picks this year in addition to our own 1st rounder.

 

8 picks in the first two rounds would be another huge step to improving that farm system. So, with that said, short of Thornburg and Peralta and maybe Gamel, I'd have a hard time getting too upset about any other trade-eligible prospects we've got in a potential deal for Ramirez.

[jmeks23]

I'd take Ramirez if it was reasonably priced prospect-wise, which it won't be. He's a bat that can instantly be put in the 5 hole when Braun is healthy and 3 hole when he isn't. Pretty good defender as well. I'd only be okay with this deal if they followed it subsequently with a SS deal though. It's a more pressing need at the moment.

[Warning Track Power]

As much as I "hate" Ramirez, he'd be a very welcome addition to fill our 3B hole. The problem is that the Cubs are our most hated rival. I seriously doubt they trade him in the division, let alone to us, for anything short of a Gamel/Thornburg/Peralta type prospect, which just puts him out of our price range.

 

If that's the cost, I'd rather take my chances on:

 

1. A Casey McGehee turanround

2. A Taylor Green callup

3. A Chase Headley

4. A Ian Stewart or Wilson Betemit type deal

 

FWIW, Ian Stewart is a really underrated possible target for me. I would acquire him in a heartbeat to platoon with McGehee the rest of the season. I don't know what the cost would be but I doubt it would be too high given his slump this season.

[JohnBriggs12]

The Cubs have NO immediate replacement at 3rd base if the Cubs could to trade ARam and get him to waive it. Vitters is at least two years away and the rest of the 3rd base prospects project to be eiither 2B (like LeMahieu or Flaherty) or utility players (like Marquez Smith). And looking over potential FA and that is a big pile of crap. And I don't like the thought of guys like Jeff Baker or Blake DeWitt at 3rd. So IF the Cubs were to talk to the Brewers about an ARam trade negotiations would start and end at Mat Gamel, imo. This will not be a straight salary dump. If you are willing to part with Gamel then I have no problems with parting with ARam.

 

Truth to be told if the Cubs want to contend in 2012 they can't afford to trade ARam, so I would prefer not to trade ARam, but if they are to trade him the Cubs HAVE to get a 3rd baseman in return and from the Brewers that's Gamel (and no we will not McGehee back).

Jeff Baker is not a horrible alternative. LeMahieu has tremendous upside and he can play anywhere in the If including 3B. He's probably ready right now.

 

The problem with relying on Ramirez is that as good as he is, he's not in the class of the middle of the order guys on the other contenders (I'm not counting Pittsburgh). He's just too inconsistent. He's better suited to be that 3rd guy. They also do not have that 2nd big bat. That could change if they went out and got Fielder of course, but really would Ricketts pay Fielder $200 million? I think not. Attanasio is more likely to do that than Ricketts. Your Cubs would be much better off with a complete youth movement or you can expect more of the same.

[Warning Track Power]

I think the Cubs should begin rebuilding in earnest. I know they have a lot of bad contracts but the situation isn't hopeless for moving pieces. Dempster is a real good pitcher for a contending team. Pena could be a good 1B for a team like the Pirates or Angels. Byrd or Fukudome would be a nice 3rd or 4th OF bat for those teams losing the Beltran sweepstakes (cough Brewers). I think Ramirez will eventually be moved, maybe in August. Zambrano and Soriano...their deals almost make it impossible but you never know.

[monty57]

You gotta make it worth it for the Cubs because they could just let him walk and collect the comp pick.

 

Could the Cubs decline the option and still offer arbitration? I would think that by declining the option they would give up that right. If that's the case, and they could save $10MM or so, the price tag wouldn't be that high. If they're asking for one of our top prospects, then I'd pass on Aramis, go with Taylor Green and target a SS in trade. However, If he could be had for the right price (i.e. Brewers pay the salary and send a mid-level prospect), I would certainly like to see him in the Brewers' 2011 lineup.

 

I could see Mark A looking at this sort of like the Carlos Lee/Posednik deal. If the player validates spending the money, he'll spend it. Ramirez probably fits that mold... at least if he doesn't have to pay $16MM next year.

[Weirdos19]

My idea:

 

Trade Casey McGehee to the Cubs for Ramirez and 10 million.

 

I realize this could really burn us down the road. But, I think if the Brewers only have to cover 13 million over the next 1.3 years, they may be able to deal ARam after the season to make room for Taylor Green.

 

Positive for us. Helps the Cubs.

[Raw Biz]

My idea:

 

Trade Casey McGehee to the Cubs for Ramirez and 10 million.

 

I realize this could really burn us down the road. But, I think if the Brewers only have to cover 13 million over the next 1.3 years, they may be able to deal ARam after the season to make room for Taylor Green.

 

Positive for us. Helps the Cubs.

Cubs would laugh. No way is that enough.

[Weirdos19]

Why?

1. Until this year they had pretty equal numbers over 2009 and 2010.

 

2. They move 13 million worth of salary

 

3. They have someone to play third while they rebuild.

 

4. And it's Hendry.

[endaround]

The Cubs only owe Ramirez like $9m. They are going to buy him out.

[HiAndTight]

The Cubs only owe Ramirez like $9m. They are going to buy him out.

I sincerely doubt that.

[endaround]

The Cubs aren't going to pay a guy $14m to play for a team that in serious rebuild mold.

[HiAndTight]

The Cubs aren't going to pay a guy $14m to play for a team that in serious rebuild mold.

So you're ruling out that the Cubs are going to go after Prince, and that a team with that payroll is just going to give up and go into rebuild mode?

 

This seems to be what people think they should do, however the Cubs have hardly given any indication it's what THEY plan to do, and the prospects of signing Prince make this even less likely.

 

This is a team that just gave up some elite prospects for Garza prior to this off-season. Did things look that much better coming into this season than they do now?

[RockCoCougars]

I don't even think that the Cubs are stupid enough to pay Ramirez $14 million next year.

[Bombers]

I don't even think that the Cubs are stupid enough to pay Ramirez $14 million next year.

Should this be in blue? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[HiAndTight]

I don't even think that the Cubs are stupid enough to pay Ramirez $14 million next year.

Well, given he's been worth 12.15 million, or thereabouts already this year, he has a .375 w/OBA, is hitting .305/.345 with an .859 OPS at a position that is pathetically weak right now offensively, AND he's been above average defensively this year.....I would ask how you come to such a conclusion.

 

Now when you factor in that they appear set to make a serious run at Prince(which I concede is just speculation at this point, but seems to be well founded speculation) don't have a great in house replacement, and have a payroll in the 150 million dollar range with 50 million coming off the books this year, I think it's even more inaccurate to suggest that the Cubs not only will pick up that option, but that they'd be stupid to do so.

 

He'll likely end up being worth 16-17 million this year based on his WAR, so for one year, I find it highly unlikely they decline his option.

[RockCoCougars]

If I had to bet, they will decline his option. I've been wrong before, and time will tell, but I really don't see the point in a team who could possibly be coming off a high 90's/100 loss season giving a 34 year old who has missed 100 some games due to injury over the contract $14 million as a stopgap measure.

[HiAndTight]

If I had to bet, they will decline his option. I've been wrong before, and time will tell, but I really don't see the point in a team who could possibly be coming off a high 90's/100 loss season giving a 34 year old who has missed 100 some games due to injury over the contract $14 million as a stopgap measure.

I do if you're a big market team that can partially spend their way out of it, and has some young talent to supplement their FA's.

 

Prince changes that entire lineup. Not a great contract long term, but when have the Cubs concerned themselves with that?

 

And by the way, Ramirez just turned 33.

[jpat]

After today's game, Ramirez said he would actually be open to waiving his no-trade clause if the Cubs came to him with a proposal. I'm afraid he isn't even a blip on DM's radar though with Casey hitting better over the past week or so.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Yep, here's a link. http://www.mlbtraderumors...rfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

Get on the phone now Doug.

[Warning Track Power]

If true, I promise, PROMISE he will be in an Angels uniform. All I hear in SoCal is about the black hole at 3B in Anaheim. This will get done and there will be nothing we can do about it. Reagins is desperate to fill that hole. I wouldn't be surprised if Pena was included as well with the Cubs getting a Mark Trumbo back.

[jpat]

Alberto Callapso isn't doing so bad for them...well at least not as far as his initial stats are saying. Not much power, but good AVG and OBP.

Edit: It sounds like the Angels fans are down on Callapso because they want the 3B who will drive in runs. Not another guy who hits like their SS and 2B.

[KCBrewerfan34]

OMG Gamel and McGehee and a mid level prospect for this guy and this division is OVER (if everyone stays healthy

 

Morgan

Hart

Braun

Fielder

Ramirez

Betancourt

Lucroy

2b

 

When Weeks comes back our lineup then becomes World Series worthy, our starters have been excellent recently and the back end of the bullpen has now been stabilized. This is a Deal that has to get done.