2011-07-03 Brewers (Greinke) at Twins (Blackburn) - [Brewers lose, 9-7]

[theavrock]

I hope all the people ragging on Greinke own up to it when the results come later in the season.

Oh, and despite the gloom and doom, we are up 2 and in position to take the series (and a division lead if the Cards lose). Despite a brutal interleague schedule.

Seriously? Just because we are in 1st place doesn't mean we can't criticize players. Grienke has not been very good. Sure his peripherals look great, but that hasn't translated yet.

We should be comfortably in 1st.

Simply throwing up your hands and saying we are in 1st so shut up you whiners is asinine, because if we keep playing this way we won't be. Given the talent and the way most have played thus far we aren't playing to where we could be IMO.

[Rhett16]

At the start of the season, I expected around a 4.00 ERA for Greinke. Right now, if he pitched 3 consecutive complete game shutouts, his ERA would get down to around 4.07 or so. Raise your hand if you think Zack is about to reel off 27 scoreless innings.

 

Given what we gave up for him, I don't think some criticism when he is performing so far below expectations is really out of line.

[COBrewerfan]

I hope all the people ragging on Greinke own up to it when the results come later in the season.

Oh, and despite the gloom and doom, we are up 2 and in position to take the series (and a division lead if the Cards lose). Despite a brutal interleague schedule.

 

No you just ignore those comments because they are so ridiculous and these are emotional people who post these things constantly. Just laugh and move on.

[Baldkin]

I hope all the people ragging on Greinke own up to it when the results come later in the season.

Oh, and despite the gloom and doom, we are up 2 and in position to take the series (and a division lead if the Cards lose). Despite a brutal interleague schedule.

Seriously? Just because we are in 1st place doesn't mean we can't criticize players. Grienke has not been very good. Sure his peripherals look great, but that hasn't translated yet.

We should be comfortably in 1st.

Simply throwing up your hands and saying we are in 1st so shut up you whiners is asinine, because if we keep playing this way we won't be. Given the talent and the way most have played thus far we aren't playing to where we could be IMO.

Yep, we should be comfortably in first place, problem is we've given 100 PA's to 3 guys with negative WAR. Greinke and his 7IP per start is not the problem.

[theavrock]

The only reason he has not been is because we have scored 7 runs a game in his starts. If he was getting much less run support he would be a problem. How anyone can say he has pitched well is beyond me. He has been at the very best the Brewers 4th best starter.

I was not saying he has been the reason we aren't in first. I was more responding to the notion that because we are in 1st people should be safe from critique.

[ninja33]

Seriously? Just because we are in 1st place doesn't mean we can't criticize players. Grienke has not been very good. Sure his peripherals look great, but that hasn't translated yet.

We should be comfortably in 1st.

Simply throwing up your hands and saying we are in 1st so shut up you whiners is asinine, because if we keep playing this way we won't be. Given the talent and the way most have played thus far we aren't playing to where we could be IMO.

The team is on pace to win ~88 games, which is right around what most projected for the team. Wins in the mid to high 80's, with the potential to get into the 90's while competing for the division. The team's run differential is +6. Third in the NL in OPS (sixth in runs scored) and tenth in the NL in ERA. They've played above average baseball, and that is reflected in their above average record. I don't see how they should be comfortably in 1st.

[jason21nl]

and yet it still could be better

[theavrock]

ninja33]

Seriously? Just because we are in 1st place doesn't mean we can't criticize players. Grienke has not been very good. Sure his peripherals look great, but that hasn't translated yet.

We should be comfortably in 1st.

Simply throwing up your hands and saying we are in 1st so shut up you whiners is asinine, because if we keep playing this way we won't be. Given the talent and the way most have played thus far we aren't playing to where we could be IMO.

The team is on pace to win ~88 games, which is right around what most projected for the team. Wins in the mid to high 80's, with the potential to get into the 90's while competing for the division. The team's run differential is +6. Third in the NL in OPS (sixth in runs scored) and tenth in the NL in ERA. They've played above average baseball, and that is reflected in their above average record.

They should be comfortably in first and they are not. That is all I am saying.

[Bombers]

ELCABALLO45]

I hope all the people ragging on Greinke own up to it when the results come later in the season.

Oh, and despite the gloom and doom, we are up 2 and in position to take the series (and a division lead if the Cards lose). Despite a brutal interleague schedule.

For the record I am not "ragging" on Greinke. I am just disappointed in how he has pitched so far. I didn't expect him to be the Cy Young Greinke, but I did not think he would struggle this badly.

For the record I am "ragging" on Greinke. He has not been fun to watch. At all. When we made the trade for him it was "there's our ace" and "watch out NL he will even get better in the league switch" ... blah blah blah. I don't remember one person saying, you will regret this trade. It's almost the all star break and his ERA has climed to almost 6 ... That's ridiculous. I am hugely dissapointed in him. And that is an understatement.

 

If he can turn it around great, I will be rooting for him but he would have to have a complete 180 to end the season with an ERA under 4. (Which was everyone'e expectation when the trade was made)

 

 

[Bombers]

At the start of the season, I expected around a 4.00 ERA for Greinke. Right now, if he pitched 3 consecutive complete game shutouts, his ERA would get down to around 4.07 or so. Raise your hand if you think Zack is about to reel off 27 scoreless innings.

 

Given what we gave up for him, I don't think some criticism when he is performing so far below expectations is really out of line.

Perfectly said. That's just nuts how far away he is from an ERA under 4

 

 

[ninja33]

Why should they be comfortably in first? What even is "comfortable"? I don't think there's a team in the whole league that is comfortably in first. The team is playing to expectations, and their record reflects how they've played. Yes a few things could have gone better and led to a few more wins, but a few things could have easily gone worse and led to a few losses. They're right where they should be.

[ramssuperbowl99]

I hope all the people ragging on Greinke own up to it when the results come later in the season.

Oh, and despite the gloom and doom, we are up 2 and in position to take the series (and a division lead if the Cards lose). Despite a brutal interleague schedule.

 

We are in the second half of the season, how much longer are we supposed to wait for these results? It's not like games in September count double in the standings or anything. He needs to get his stuff together already.

Take statistics. Seriously.

[theavrock]

Why should they be comfortably in first? What even is "comfortable"? I don't think there's a team in the whole league that is comfortably in first. The team is playing to expectations, and their record reflects how they've played. Yes a few things could have gone better and led to a few more wins, but a few things could have easily gone worse and led to a few losses. They're right where they should be.

Ok. I think the team hasn't played as well as they could have.

[ramssuperbowl99]

I hope all the people ragging on Greinke own up to it when the results come later in the season.

Oh, and despite the gloom and doom, we are up 2 and in position to take the series (and a division lead if the Cards lose). Despite a brutal interleague schedule.

 

No you just ignore those comments because they are so ridiculous and these are emotional people who post these things constantly. Just laugh and move on.

I try to. But when there are like a page and a half of "OMG Greinke sucks because I use antiquated numbers in absurdly small sample size" and then Weeks hits a rocket home run and there is one comment, it gets fairly annoying.

[strawbossisevil]

At this point, who cares where his ERA ends up at the end of the season. All I care about is what he does going forward, and I still believe he´ll be a guy whose ERA is in the low to mid 3s going forward.

 

All this slow start did, is make him far more affordable in a contract extension.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Loe in a high leverage situation that isn't the 8th? That and Yuni walking may make my head explode.

[theavrock]

I hope all the people ragging on Greinke own up to it when the results come later in the season.

Oh, and despite the gloom and doom, we are up 2 and in position to take the series (and a division lead if the Cards lose). Despite a brutal interleague schedule.

 

No you just ignore those comments because they are so ridiculous and these are emotional people who post these things constantly. Just laugh and move on.

I try to. But when there are like a page and a half of "OMG Greinke sucks because I use antiquated numbers in absurdly small sample size" and then Weeks hits a rocket home run and there is one comment, it gets fairly annoying.

So here is a simple question that can be answered with a simple yes or no should you so choose.

 

Have you been happy with his performance thus far?

 

Look I've read Baseball Between the Numbers and subscribe to the value of sabermetrics and all that junk, but I am having a hard time believing this is the pitcher you thought we were getting.

[ninja33]

Loe vs. Thome is absolutely terrifying.

[jason21nl]

Hawkins just doesn't get to pitch during pressure situations.

[jason21nl]

WHY on Earth is Loe in to face Thome?

[theavrock]

Loe vs. Thome is absolutely terrifying.

Agreed. Dreadful matchup for Loe.

[ELCABALLO45]

I hope all the people ragging on Greinke own up to it when the results come later in the season.

Oh, and despite the gloom and doom, we are up 2 and in position to take the series (and a division lead if the Cards lose). Despite a brutal interleague schedule.

 

No you just ignore those comments because they are so ridiculous and these are emotional people who post these things constantly. Just laugh and move on.

I try to. But when there are like a page and a half of "OMG Greinke sucks because I use antiquated numbers in absurdly small sample size" and then Weeks hits a rocket home run and there is one comment, it gets fairly annoying.

Same things happen with people complaining about RR. It's a game thread in the heat of the moment. Why are you surprised?

[Baldkin]

Their home wOBA is the best in the league, road wOBA is the 2nd worst in the league. That is just astounding.

 

Also, I won't deny that Greinke has been bad, but, if you want to use WPA (win probability added), collectively, his 62 innings have been worth about as little as the 3 that Daniel Ray Herrera gave us. That's amazing to me.

[ramssuperbowl99]

No you just ignore those comments because they are so ridiculous and these are emotional people who post these things constantly. Just laugh and move on.

I try to. But when there are like a page and a half of "OMG Greinke sucks because I use antiquated numbers in absurdly small sample size" and then Weeks hits a rocket home run and there is one comment, it gets fairly annoying.

So here is a simple question that can be answered with a simple yes or no should you so choose.

 

Have you been happy with his performance thus far?

 

Look I've read Baseball Between the Numbers and subscribe to the value of sabermetrics, but I am having a hard time believing this is the pitcher you thought we were getting.

His performance or the results?

I have never seen a pitcher with such a high percentage of mistakes get hit hardly, I have never seen a pitcher who has hits string together on him, and I have never seen a guy who has his mistakes hit with RISP like Greinke.

People are so quick to point out that Greinke makes a bad pitch that gets hit, but forget that every mistake in baseball isn't hammered. Most mistake pitches are missed.

If you told me he would be striking out more than a batter per inning and keeping the walk rate down, I'd tell you I'm happy. I just don't look at ERA over half a season. It's basically meaningless in terms of future performance. If you are mad about how he's done so far, I'd tell you that it doesn't really matter because he's gotten great run support.

 

[ramssuperbowl99]

No you just ignore those comments because they are so ridiculous and these are emotional people who post these things constantly. Just laugh and move on.

I try to. But when there are like a page and a half of "OMG Greinke sucks because I use antiquated numbers in absurdly small sample size" and then Weeks hits a rocket home run and there is one comment, it gets fairly annoying.

Same things happen with people complaining about RR. It's a game thread in the heat of the moment. Why are you surprised?

RR's decisions actually don't make sense though. Statistically, they just don't make any sense at all. See - this inning.