National League MVP 2011: Braun = MVP! (reply #318)

[sdcheezhd]

Braun is NL player of the month and Kemp had a very good September. I think that's a pretty good indication of how it will go.

[jmeks23]

I don't think you really have to be on a playoff team to win it, but Kemp's club was like 2 games over .500. Basically 10+ games out of first place the entire year. That will influence voters. Have to agree that the award is the most VALUABLE player, not the BEST player. Otherwise Braun or Fielder would have probably won it in years past with how good they've been.

[dlk9s]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Most "Valuable" Player is just a fancy way of saying "Best Player." It just looks good on a trophy. To not give it to a guy because he played on a mediocre or crap team doesn't make any sense.

 

Besides, even if you think you interpret "Valuable" literally, I don't get why people put in the context of a player's specific team. ANY team that loses its best player is going to do worse, regardless of their record. The Brewers would've won fewer games without Braun, the Dodgers would've won fewer without Kemp. Taking teams out of the picture and just lining up all the players in the league, who would have the most value, based on this one season? Whose statistical season (throw in intangibles if you wish) was the most valuable, simply from an overall baseball perspective?

 

I mean, what if a guy hit .400 and had a 40/40 season, but the pitchers on his team were of the Suppan/Looper/September Red Sox variety and his team went 75-87? Is that guy not the most "valuable" player in the league because nobody else on his team could do anything? By the "must be on a winning/playoff team" logic, he's not.

 

In the case of Braun/Kemp, it's so close that I'm ok with using the playoff team thing as a tiebreaker, but I just hate the notion that a guy can't win MVP if he's not on a playoff team.

[Bombers]

I just read on jsonline that the award is being announced on November 22nd. I have no idea, why they wait so long.

[RightFieldCoder]

They release one award a day. That way the winners have time to soak in their victory.

 

11/14 - ROY, both leagues

11/15 - Cy Young, AL

11/16 - Managers of the Year, both leagues

11/17 - Cy Young, NL

11/21 - AL MVP

11/22 - NL MVP

[stoutdude04]

In the case of Braun/Kemp, it's so close that I'm ok with using the playoff team thing as a tiebreaker, but I just hate the notion that a guy can't win MVP if he's not on a playoff team.

I understand exaactly what you are saying in general and I do tend to agree. However, without Braun the Brewers possibly don't win the division/or even make the playoffs. That to me shows just how valuable he is. I think they are quite close.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

Matt Kemp putting up the numbers he did playing in the NL West isn't getting the respect it should, imo. I love Braun, & will be ecstatic if he wins the MVP, but Kemp's season was incredible.

 

Here are the 2011 park factors for NL West parks; % of his PAs parenthetically --

 

ARZ: 1.146 (5.8%)

COL: 1.347 (5.7%)

LAD: .936 (49.2%)

SDP: .819 (5.7%)

SFG: .737 (5.4%)

 

That's 60% of his plate appearances in three of the most pitching-friendly parks in all of baseball.

[GB12]

They release one award a day. That way the winners have time to soak in their victory.

 

11/14 - ROY, both leagues

11/15 - Cy Young, AL

11/16 - Managers of the Year, both leagues

11/17 - Cy Young, NL

11/21 - AL MVP

11/22 - NL MVP

But why do they need to wait so long after the World Series to start releasing them? They were voted on before the post season started, so what's the hold up?

[RightFieldCoder]

So the champs can celebrate, and a lot of moves that were decided (options, etc) during October are going to be released.

[dlk9s]

In the case of Braun/Kemp, it's so close that I'm ok with using the playoff team thing as a tiebreaker, but I just hate the notion that a guy can't win MVP if he's not on a playoff team.

I understand exaactly what you are saying in general and I do tend to agree. However, without Braun the Brewers possibly don't win the division/or even make the playoffs. That to me shows just how valuable he is. I think they are quite close.

And if Braun and Kemp switched places, the Brewers would likely have won the division and the Dodgers would likely have been around a .500 team. Obviously the Brewers would have been worse, and probably a lot worse, without Braun. Likewise, the Dodgers would have been worse, and probably a lot worse, without Kemp.

 

If one wants to take the "Valuable" word literally, it should be used on an absolute scale, not on a relative scale, as each team is different. Ryan Braun has more relative "value" to the Brewers than he would for the Yankees (for simplicity's sake, ignore the fact that the Yankees are in the AL), but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be MVP if he was on the richest team in baseball just because they are stacked with or without him.

[reillymcshane]

Braun will win. I read various articles from guys who have a vote who all acknowledge that Kemp was great, but so was Braun, and Braunie did it for a playoff team. And Braun did great when it counted in September - and not just with the bat. He had that highlight real catch and throw for a double play. Voters see that stuff. It's all going to come down to the fact Braun played for a winning team.

[Oldcity]

Switch their roles, and the Brewers would still win the division, and the Dodgers would still be right around .500. Kemp was the best player. The rest of the team shouldn't decided who wins it.

[RockCoCougars]

Kemp had a monster year, no doubt, but he didn't really outdo Braun that much in the counting numbers, even though Braun missed some time. History has shown that the guy playing for the winner will take such a vote every time. I understand this train of thought, because without Braun the Brewers probably miss the playoffs, without Kemp the Dodgers are still mediocre.

 

If you are playing for an also-ran, you have to be heads and shoulders in front of the pack, I don't think that Kemp was.

[Ennder]

I have no issue at all with picking the player who went to the playoffs when you are in a coin flip situation and that is what this really is.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The difference is to me is not that one guy made the playoffs and one guy did not. It's the number high-pressure, tense at bats Braun had to face, and on how many of those he delivered. Kemp never had to do that, granted he didn't have the opportunity, but his numbers aren't better enough than Braun's for me to discount Braun's clutch factor. To me, that's the separating factor. If it were a wider gap, I would give it to Kemp, but it's just not that wide.

[Kelbysdaddy]

you shouldnt have to be on a playoff team to win, but i have a problem with the cy young winner AND the mvp being on a team that doesnt make the playoffs

[1992casey]

The rest of the team shouldn't decided who wins it.

 

I heard an argument a couple of years ago that suggested that the rest of the team most certainly should be a factor, but not in terms of the way the team finished in the standings. Rather, this person felt that the team's ability to replace the "valuable" player should be considered.

 

Look at the 1978 Milwaukee Brewers. In the outfield, the team had Hisle, Thomas, Lezcano, and Oglivie. In the infield, they had Cooper, Molitor, Yount, Bando, and Money. Both the infield and outfield had a starting-caliber player available as a replacement. That's a lot different than replacing a starter with a Mark Kotsay.

 

You could argue that losing a starter could adversely affect the DH position, but with the 1978 team, you'd really have to lose two players to see a significant negative effect at that spot.

[CheezWizHed]

That is why one big star on a crappy team makes him more "valuable" to that team. I'd prefer if they just came out and said it was for the best player regardless of team.

 

But if any particular bias or stat favors getting the Brewers another MVP, I'm all for that. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Menotti80]

Yay Braun!

[topper09er]

Braun won!!

 

Yes, Hank Aaron only won 1 MVP. This will look good for HOF voting years down the road.

[patrickgpe]

is it official? its not on mlb.com yet as of 1:03

[DocBrewPack]

Braun won. Official.

[RockCoCougars]

cbssports.com has it.

[adamb100]

Congrats Braun!!! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[DocBrewPack]

Vote 20 - 10 Braun!!! (1st place votes)