National League MVP 2011: Braun = MVP! (reply #318)

[jjfanec]

I saw a thread discussing this in the trade forum of all places but I thought it would be interesting to bring to the major league forum. When looking at the NL MVP race one would think Fielder is the favorite right now. Overall stats and team's success seem to be the big factors. Tom Verducci did a mid-season awards list and had Fielder number 1 and Braun number 2 in the NL MVP race.

[JohnBriggs12]

A lot of talk on ESPN yesterday of Matt Kemp being the leader despite his team being under .500. It's hard to argue his numbers so you have to point to team success, but Braun and Fielder will split some of that too.

[pingman]

I nominate Brian McCann....

 

He's carrying a playoff team on his back....take his bat out of the lineup & you're looking at the worst offense in the NL

 

He's clutch.....looking at the key splits:

 

"late/close": 317/440/585

runners in scoring position: 344/481/541

2-outs: 346/443/538

 

....and he's one of the very best defensive catchers despite his throwing stats (ATL pitchers have never held runners) ......he's managing a staff with the 2nd best ERA in the NL that features three young starters (25, 24, and 24), a 23 year old closer, and the two setup men are both only 26

[joepepsi]

So what you're saying is, in clutch situations McCann hits like Ryan Braun does in every situation.

[pingman]

and without a threat like Prince protecting him in the batting order

[owbc]

I think the MVP should go to the offensive player with the best raw numbers. By my criteria, Kemp deserves it. Fielder should be #2. Kemp's OPS is essentially the same as Prince, but Kemp gets the nod for stealing 22 bases in 25 attempts, compared to Prince's 0 for 0. Prince also contributes nothing on defense.

 

If you disqualify Kemp because the Dodgers stink, then it should go to Prince.

 

McCann is the best catcher but I put him in the 5-6 range behind Braun, Votto, and maybe Berkman.

[TooLiveBrew]

and without a threat like Prince protecting him in the batting order

Seriously? There are so many better arguments than this. Protection has been proven to be -- at worst -- almost exactly a myth.

[RightFieldCoder]

obsessedwithbrewcrew wrote:

---

I think the MVP should go to the offensive player with the best raw numbers.

That's funny. I suppose you think the Gold Glove should go to the best defensive player, too.

and without a threat like Prince protecting him in the batting order

It's a good thing Prince has that protection behind him.

[pingman]

and that's one of the reasons why I would make Prince the favorite....nothing against Braun but I'd go with Prince.......just saying McCann deserves to be in the mix

[monty57]

So what you're saying is, in clutch situations McCann hits like Ryan Braun does in every situation.

 

If a catcher hits like a stud LF or 1B, than he certainly should be in contention for MVP.

[M Skjellyfetti]

If a catcher hits like a stud LF or 1B, than he certainly should be in contention for MVP.

 

Sure, but McCann is only hitting like Braun in some cherrypicked situations. In all situations, he's quite a bit behind Braun in the batting department. Also, FWIW, fangraphs has McCann's defensive value listed as negative. I believe they've had some trouble quantifying catcher defense in the past, so take that for what it's worth.

[1992casey]

I've added this topic to the Designated Threads List.

[ninja33]

I think the MVP should go to the offensive player with the best raw numbers. By my criteria, Kemp deserves it. Fielder should be #2. Kemp's OPS is essentially the same as Prince, but Kemp gets the nod for stealing 22 bases in 25 attempts, compared to Prince's 0 for 0. Prince also contributes nothing on defense.

For what it's worth, Matt Kemp doesn't contribute much on defense either. Even after pointing that out though, Kemp would still get my vote. He's been the best player in the NL, and by being the best player he has contributed the most "value" to his team. I don't care if they aren't having a good season. 2 and 3 would be Prince and Reyes (depending on how much weight is given to defense).

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

First half MVP...I'd put 5 in the mix, all have been mentioned. My rank:

 

Kemp

Prince

McCann

Braun

Reyes

 

You could even put Rickie & some of the stud starters in the next tier.

[DuWayne Steurer]

109 games in, and realistically, who's an MVP candidate besides Braun and Fielder?

 

I will say that there might be more deserving guys out there at years end (Kemp, Reyes), but we all very well know that the writers, by and large, usually only vote for guys on teams that contend up until the end.

 

The possibility obviously exists that a guy like Pujols or Votto gets white hot, carries his team to the playoffs, and takes the award, but at this point, as things stand, is there anyone that would get more votes than Braun and/or Fielder? I don't think so.

[GAME05]

surprised not to read McCutchen's name yet.

 

Fielder stands out to me among the Brewers great players, but not head-and-shoulders above Weeks and Braun the way I think an MVP should stand out to his team. I'd think of Reyes, but I'm one of those who believes an MVP should come from a contending team (or at least above .500). McCann and McCutchen are the two players who stand out strongest to me.

[Invader3K]

McCann is hurt right now and it's uncertain when he'll be back right now. Too bad, as he was having a great season.

 

While McCutchen is having a very nice season, he doesn't really stand ahead in any of the major counting categories that the writers tend to like.

 

Reyes probably deserves to win it right now, but I think it will end up going to Braun, assuming the Brewers win the division.

[jjfanec]

Fielder stands out to me among the Brewers great players, but not head-and-shoulders above Weeks and Braun the way I think an MVP should stand out to his team.

I am just wondering why you think Fielder stands out more than Braun. Braun has a higher OPS, gets stolen bases and even though he is not a great fielder is still better than Fielder. Braun has missed some time with injury so Fielder has the edge on him there. Both are great choices I was just wondering your reasoning for Fielder standing out more

[RightFieldCoder]

Fielder has more moonshots, is the emotional leader of the team, and he performed well at the ASG. Those all influence the writers.

 

I think it will come down to who ends the season hotter and who comes up with the big RBI's. On the Brewer's website, it highlights the Fielder winner from yesterday. Fielder hit the game winning single, but Braun set it up with the leadoff double. RBI's will equal votes.

[RockCoCougars]

Right now, I say that Prince is still in the lead, but Braun has been closing the gap. I'd put Reyes, Kemp and Fat Albert next in that order.

[Tbadder]

If it ended now I think Prince would deserve it. But they'd still give it to Kemp, not based on production (he's a legit choice) but based on Market.

[cwolf2012]

"Fat Albert next in that order

 

Pujols isn't even the 2nd most valuable player on his team so far by my understanding of your evaluation of players (I know you don't trust WAR or UZR). Holliday and Berkman have been better.

[pitchleague]

surprised not to read McCutchen's name yet.

 

Fielder stands out to me among the Brewers great players, but not head-and-shoulders above Weeks and Braun the way I think an MVP should stand out to his team. I'd think of Reyes, but I'm one of those who believes an MVP should come from a contending team (or at least above .500). McCann and McCutchen are the two players who stand out strongest to me.

I may be wrong about this, but I would think that in years in which the MVP winner comes from a non-contender it is because the contending teams either didn't have any truly dominating players--just a bunch of players that had above average seasons and the pitching is the real reason they are contenders (see SF Giants last year as an example) OR a player on a non-contender was just so much better than everybody else, even though the rest of his team was pretty bad.

 

Examples of each of those might be when Yount won his 2nd MVP in '89 and Andre Dawson in '87.

 

When Yount won, most baseball people thought that, yeah, he had a very good season. But there were a bunch of guys that only had "very good seasons" and, thus, split up the vote and, alas, Yount surprised everyone (including this precocious teenager that couldn't believe he was the winner). When Dawson won, he was just so dominating for the Cubs that it was almost unfair.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

If it ended now I think Prince would deserve it. But they'd still give it to Kemp, not based on production (he's a legit choice) but based on Market.

 

Maybe one of the McCourt lawyers gets an American Bar Association award, but not Kemp. No one even cares about the Dodgers in LA, why would the national writers?

[RockCoCougars]

"Fat Albert next in that order

 

Pujols isn't even the 2nd most valuable player on his team so far by my understanding of your evaluation of players (I know you don't trust WAR or UZR). Holliday and Berkman have been better.

The dropoff after the Top 4 is pretty severe. I'd be inclined to put McCann in there, but I think the injury will hamper his counting stats. I hate Pujols, but he is near the top of the league in HR, runs and RBI despite the injury and the cold spell at the beginning. No doubt in my mind that his fanboys will get him a top 5 finish again. The only real edge that Holliday and Berkman have on him is OBP. I'll be pretty surprised if he doesn't bypass Berkman in HR and RBI soon.