Casey McGehee's struggles: how much leash does he get?

[Tbadder]

Okay, so you guys are going to ignore my repeated "play him then" comment and the Hurricane Hazel reference. I just don't like him, probably because he's hitting AAA better than AA (I always consider AA the better measuring tool) and I have no faith in players who have had the injuries he's had, especially the wrist. I'm wary of players who don't have a complete season at a level unless they're overpowering the league like Nick Ramirez, and I hardly think Taylor is overpowering AAA. I really don't care if they bring him up--at least it will be interesting. And you can insert the "I hope I'm wrong" comment here as well. I just don't think he'll be any better offensively than Casey. Admittedly, a brick on three wheels will be better defensively than Casey.

[kramnoj]

yeah; but betancourt hasn't broken 90 since 2007 and sat in the 60's for two seasons before hitting 88 last year.

 

He was only in the 60's once, in 2009.

[greeg35]

Let's not exaggerated about Almonte.

I wasn't exagerrating, I just said it was too long. One day of Almonte was too long.

He was only in the 60's once, in 2009.

Sorry, read 1 year as two on baseball reference.

[dlk9s]

He moves like he's in his 60's.

[JohnBriggs12]

Betancourt and Kotsay are right at 75 on that scale. Over the last month, both are well trending upward.

 

 

yeah; but betancourt hasn't broken 90 since 2007 and sat in the 60's for two seasons before hitting 88 last year. Point is, he stinks, has stunk, and will stink barring extreme luck or miracle and we keep on going back to that well. Luckily he makes up for it with his glove. People have been saying McGehee is more comfortable for over a month but it hasn't helped him in the results department; he'd probably be even more comfortable on the bench. Almonte and Nieves aren't here anymore; but they were Melvin/Roenicke's choice for too long.

Overall, choosing to give 400 more PA's to terrible hitters than your nearest competitor in a year you are "going for it" is inexcusable. ESPECIALLY when there is are two feasible replacements for McGehee raking in the minors.

The White Sox motto this year was "all in". They 3 guys in their lineup with OPS+ of 61 or less, Dunn (61), Rios (51), and Morel (52), and a total 1,128 AB's taken by guys who are not just 75 and under, but 72 and under. Yet they are still just 4.5 games back. It's not like they don't have options in the minors either.with Viciedo and Milledge.

[Ayt]

Is your point that because the White Sox have made idiotic decisions it is alright that the Brewers have?

[Funketown]

The major difference between the Sox and the Brewers is that most of the White Sox's bad PA's have gone to Dunn and Rios, two guys who no one would have predicted to perform as poorly as they have. While McGehee was obviously expected to perform far better than he has, it was completely predictable that Yuni, Kotsay, Counsell, and Nieves would perform poorly at the plate. Counsell is the only one of those I excuse the front office for simply because they could not have foreseen his huge production drop and he is a versatile defender.

[HiAndTight]

There's no way Doug is going to make a move now because of the two mini-streaks they're on. But that's neither here nor there. I just don't think there's anything significantly better to be had. Green only looks like a slight upgrade defensively and I'd bet dollars to donuts he hits even worse. And with the total crap available at ss other than Ramirez and Reyes, neither who are going anywhere, we'll just have to live with Yuni.

I think that's absolutely ridiculous and a bit insulting to Melvin.

 

He's reportedly going after Jamey Carroll very hard right now, so that would seem to directly contradict your post. Bottom line, I don't think Melvin is fooled by a short stretch. I know a lot of people on here believe they're more intelligent with regard to building a team than Doug Melvin, though I would contend that those people seldom grasp many of the difficulties in making the moves they often advocate, but Melvin's a pretty sound baseball guy. He may make some moves we quibble with and don't like, but that line pretty much says you believe him to be kinda an idiot in not so many words.

 

 

I also can't understand what would make you believe that Taylor Green would put up an inferior linel to Casey McGehee. When has he ever been in the .586 OPS range at any level? He's currently putting up a .940+ OPS in AAA.

 

I also don't understand what there is to suggest he'd only be a slight upgrade defensively. McGehee is just awful while Green's at worst average to above average.

[HiAndTight]

Endaround: I agree with 1 and 3. But even manure has a price and other teams who need a shortstop have more players to trade than Dougie. Why would I want anything the Brewers had to offer? Okay give me Peralta or Gamel and another player and I'll give you Barmes. Green gonna hit? I don't think so. He's not a power hitter; he's had half a season a AAA. And his progress through the minors was anything but smooth. I think it'll take Green a least half a season not to be embarrassed by major league pitchers, but by then nothing will have changed. If you want to call him up do so. And I agree he could even go all Hurricane Hazel on the National League, but I doubt it. By all means call him up; just don't expect anything.

Where in the world does THIS come from?

 

The Brewers are lacking in elite upper level prospects. We're also not talking about trading for elite big leaguers that would require such prospects. We're talking about trading C level prospects for guys who have limited value to their own big league teams. I don't think anyone who knows anything about the trade value of any of these players would even hint that we're talking about a Peralta, Gamel or another equally valuable minor leaguer in return for a couple months of a Clint Barmes type player. The Brewer are actually positioned extremely well to trade for these types of prospects as we have an abundance of C type prospects. Again, we're obviously lacking in the elite, blue chip prospects, but we're not talking about trading for Ubalado Jimenez, James Shields type big leaguer.

 

So when talking about Rafael Furcal, Jamey Carroll or Clint Barmes, throw out the Mesoraco, Alanso, Teheran types as they're totally irrelevant to these discussions.

 

 

I'm also curious what your point is in referencing the .150 batting average? Are you suggesting that because Gamel, in an absurdly small sample size, hit for a poor average that-that fact in any manner has any relation to Taylor Green?

[The Truth]

If this interview doesn't make you question Doug Melvin I don't know what might. (Confidence in Kotsay. Hoping to get Casey going. Sees Green & Gamel as nothing more than September callups. Not sure if Carroll or Barmes would be an upgrade) Wow

 

http://www.jsonline.com/s...s/brewers/126151758.html

 

Hopefully thats all just media speak as he tries to make deals. We'll know alot more about Melvin circa 2011 on August 1st

[FVBrewerFan]

I think part of it is just GM speak. Part of it is true (tough trade market for SS, 3B, LH bullpen arm.) But I fear the talk about Green/Gamel being nothing more than September call-ups isn't just GM speak. Actions speak louder than words, and as of tonight Casey is still the starting 3B.

 

Beyond everything else we've already discussed, I think they're taking a big risk by standing by McGehee until September. For all those that fear Green can't handle the adjustment to MLB, and the pressure of the pennant race, then wouldn't both os those issues e magnified in Spetember, as opposed to bringing him up NOW? That would give him an extra month to adjust.

 

It's not impossible for McGehee to turn it around, but it could go in the opposite direction. If he has a bad home stand he'll hear the boos. That's piling on an already bruised confidence, and he could really spial down. Now you throw Green in there in September with no MLB experience in the middle of a pennant race? RR doesn't have clean hands in this either. My guess is he's lobbying hard for McGehee, not to mention Counsell, Kotsay, Yuni, etc. Again, just guessing, but I think if RR told DM they've tried everything with McGehee and it's time to send him down, Melvin would respect his wishes.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

Yeah, i hope Melvin is putting up a smoke screen. If we stand pat this year, I want Melvin gone. We can't "go for it" and keep 2 of the worst players in MLB, maybe in brewers history in every day starting roles. Yuni + Casey is the worst SS-3B combo in baseball and it isn't close. There is a difference between not throwing your guys under the bus and realizing that your players (Yuni and Casey) are just awful

[adambr2]

I think it has to be GM speak. I hope.

 

If he doesn't think that there are many upgrades available to two infielders that are both worse than your average AAA replacement player, then I'm not sure that Melvin has a full grasp on just how bad Betancourt and McGehee are.

[geddymd73]

I'm pretty sure Melvin has Yuni's stats right in front of him

April: .273/.309/.375/.684

May: .178/.200/.289/.489

June: .284/.281/.409/.690

July: .299/.324/.448/.772

He'll probably conclude, outside of May, Yuni has been better than his career stats.

[Invader3K]

I'm not asking him to necessarily upgrade both 3B and SS, as I know that is probably tough. Just give me an upgrade at one or the other.

[gregmag]

I'm pretty sure Melvin has Yuni's stats right in front of him

April: .273/.309/.375/.684

May: .178/.200/.289/.489

June: .284/.281/.409/.690

July: .299/.324/.448/.772

He'll probably conclude, outside of May, Yuni has been better than his career stats.

This argument lacks force for three reasons: (1) May counts, and Yuni's May was beyond horrific. (2) Being better than Yuni's career stats is not remotely the same thing as being adequate, and Yuni's April and June numbers are quite bad -- especially June, when you remember that OPS underemphasizes the relative importance of OBP. (3) Yuni's defense is bad enough that he needs to hit not just passably but really, really well to help the team.

 

He has had a very solid July at the plate, and that played a meaningful role in the recent nondisastrous road trip. I'm glad for that, and I give Yuni credit for not folding and for picking up his game. But the weight of the evidence still says this is a seriously bad player. A team in a pennant race with competent management replaces him ASAP.

 

[adambr2]

Noticed something shocking on Fangraphs relative to McGehee today. http://www.fangraphs.com/...layerid=6086&position=3B

 

Scroll to the bottom, for his defense he is listed currently as 1.8 runs above average, by far his best defensive season as a Brewer?

 

Does Fangraphs know something we don't, or have they been watching a completely different Casey McGehee than the one I've seen this season?

[Funketown]

adambr2 wrote:

Does Fangraphs know something we don't, or have they been watching a completely different Casey McGehee than the one I've seen this season?

I noticed that his UZR totals were pretty good this season as well. My understanding is that there's a decent amount of subjectivity in UZR so data from <1 season can often have some general goofiness going on. DRS has him at -5. I'm sure someone like rluzinski can explain this better than I can though. UZR does has him at about -10 for the past three seasons though.

 

Edit: Ambiguous wording.

[The Truth]

I don't think Casey has been as brutal in the field as many here make him out to be. His hitting has been unbelievably bad and he has the speed of a backup catcher on the basepaths, but his fielding is probably only "average to below-average"

[HiAndTight]

I don't think Casey has been as brutal in the field as many here make him out to be. His hitting has been unbelievably bad and he has the speed of a backup catcher on the basepaths, but his fielding is probably only "average to below-average"

I couldn't disagree more. His defense is just awful. The guy lacks any range. I think that Weeks at short would be fairly comparable.

[Ayt]

Casey's range extends about as far as his reach if he were to fall over.

[thebruce44]

I noticed McGehees UZR a while back. The sad thing is that as bad as his War has been, it's being "proped up" by a small sample of defense.

[dlk9s]

I feel like (and this is just from observation) Casey's hands are decent and his arm is good and usually fairly accurate, but anything positive on those fronts is negated, and then some, by his statue-like range.

[TheCrew]

Another fine example of why UZR and advanced defensive metrics should be taken with a grain of salt. There is no way he is the 8th best defensive 3b in the league with the 6th best range - which is where he currently ranks according to the advanced metrics. He'd be lucky to be out of the bottom 3 in either area.

[MadisonBrewerBlue]

i live one day at a time. casey had a two run triple in the first that didnt hurt the team