Rick Kranitz: not getting the most out of the pitching staff?

[Warning Track Power]

With all the RR hate on this board, I think its about time to divert some of that towards Rick Kranitz and is inability to get the most out of some of the pitchers on this team. While the Brewers are in first place as I type this, let's not fool ourselves into believeing the pitching on this team has been anywhere close to what some of the statistics say we are. Running down the pitchers on this team with the most appearances, I feel its appropriate to put the pitchers in the following categories:

 

Exceeding expectations: Marcum, Wolf, Axford, Hawkins

Pitching to expectations: Mitre, Estrada

Not pitching to expectations: Greinke, Gallardo, Narveson, Loe, Stetter, Dillard, Braddock

 

I don't feel I am being biased in making my point about the pitching staff. This staff as a whole has massively underperformed in my opinion. Maybe some of Gallardo or Greinke's inconsistencies this season have been masked by Wolf's excellent overall performance to date but that doesn't change the fact that the Brewers pitching as a whole has to be looked at as underachieving. Now whether or not that is the fault of RR and his definition of roles (i.e. Loe in the 8th or Loe against LH) or Kranitz is open to debate. I can blame RR for Loe. However, I feel a good portion of the blame should fall on Kranitz due to 60% of the starters, which has no bearing on RR's decision making, underperforming.

[endaround]

In what universe is Narveson underperforming?

[Warning Track Power]

In what universe is Narveson underperforming?

Well maybe my opinion of Narveson is different than everyone else's but I have always felt that Narveson has always had the potential to be an above average pitcher. To me, his inability to get over that mental hurdle of the big inning this season, while not entirely the fault of Kranitz, can be blamed partly on coaching. Just my opinion.

 

[Oxy]

Yeah, I don't get this at all. The only problem with our pitching staff is a rash of injuries/disorders out of the bullpen and 3 bad outings by Loe. Overall, everything else has been dandy. Inconsistency is actually to be expected from pitchers, so you basically have to look at the overall performance and results, and there is a good discussion about that in the Greinke thread. If Gallardo and Greinke still have these numbers in September then there might be a case to be had for those guys underperforming, but they have each passed the eye test and enough advanced stats say that things will even out for them in the long run that any concern right now is a bit premature.

 

I never really expected Stetter and Dillard to ever pitch for us this year, so anything positive that they would have given us would have been a bonus.

 

The injury list of: Greinke, Hawkins, Saito, Parra, Braddock, and Kintzler is far more to blame than Kranitz.

[Tedaldtada]

I can't say I agree that Greinke is pitching poorly either.

 

I love Kranitz so far. When he goes out for a mound visit, he has a great demeanor. He looks confident and makes it seem as though he knows something we don't, which is good.

 

I used to hate Peterson's mound visits.

[SZBrewerFan]

I have to agree with those that don't agree with this one. So far I think the staff has performed pretty well. Wolf has been great, Gallardo pretty solid save 2 or 3 shaky outings (one against one of the best lineups ever put together), Narvy has been solid and Greinke is fine. The bullpen seems to be rounding into form and I expect better things going forward. Ax has been great save his first few appearances, Loe has had 3 bad appearances but has been pretty solid and Hawkins is looking good. With Saito hopefully back soon I think you will see improvement and hopefully Braddock is able to concur his deamons and get back with the big club.

[Thurston Fluff]

That was Narveson's problem last season as well. The only constant is the pitcher in question.

 

I don't know what you expected out of Dillard. He was pretty much always a fringe major league player at best.

Stetter is hurt so I don't know how that is on the pitching coach. Same goes for Braddock. Unless you count teaching a guy how to sleep as part of the pitching coaches job I don't know how you related Braddock's issues to the pitching coach. Loe hasn't been in the majors long enough to know what should be expected of him to know if he is under or over performing. If we start blaming pitching coaches for every flash in the pan reliever who fails after a year or two Kranitz has a lot of company. Narveson isn't close to under performing IMHO. That leaves us with two guys who haven't been up to snuff so far. YoGa and Greinke. Small samples and random variance are more reasonable explanations than incompetence in coaching with those two. When two out of an entire staff are not up to snuff and more than that are over performing I think it's safe to say the evidence is against some sort of pitching coach incompetence as a whole.

[Warning Track Power]

Ok guys...you are all making me feel better about Kranitz and the pitching staff overall. I guess 3 double digit run games last week plus 2 ugly games against the Rays have narrowed my view. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[joepepsi]

I think Narveson has been good. He's always going to be shaky in the 5th-7th innings. A good manager should be ready for that and yank him before things go terribly wrong. To be fair to RR, his alternatives in the middle innings are pretty terrible. I think the middle relievers on the roster right now are mostly Plan B guys. Nevertheless, the bullpen is the main area he really needs to get better at. That and thinking Kotsay is a better option against RHP than Lucroy.

[CheezWizHed]

Here is more how I see it:

 

Exceeding expectations:

Marcum - has been great out of the gates. Slowed a little lately, but still above what I expected.

Wolf - I generally argued against the "Suppan II" crowd, but he is still better than what I expected this year.

Mitre - My expectations were quite low, so being "solid" exceeds those expectations.

 

 

Pitching to expectations:

Estrada - Has been up and down, but back-end BP/6th starters will do that.

Axford - Maybe slightly above expectations, but I thought he could repeat last year.

Narveson - I expected a 5th starter. Which is about what he has given (maybe a little above that). As others said, about the same as last year.

Gallardo - Started slow, then dominated. Overall, his numbers are about his norms.

 

Not pitching to expectations:

Greinke - Below mainly because of the injury and slow start. Has been coming on strong with some dominating starts. Over the last month, I would put him in the "As Expected" category.

Loe - Below expectations, but mainly due to usage by the coaching staff, IMO. Being used too often and exposed to big lefties (Votto) too much.

Braddock - I don't know where to put him. Pitches well, but unreliable with this sleeping issue and other things.

 

Too soon:

Hawkins - He has pitched very well, but just very limited also...

Dillard - As others said, fringe MLBer, but not enough innings to know anything.

Stetter - been too injured and up and down between MLB and MiLB

[rluzinski]

I think Narveson has been good. He's always going to be shaky in the 5th-7th innings.

As a general rule, starting pitcher's perform worse as the game goes on, so it's no surprise that a #5 pitcher would have below average performance the third time through the order. Managers in general should have quicker hooks with mediocre/average starting pitchers, regardless of their performance in that particular game.

[adambr2]

If our #5 starter is underperforming with his 5-5, 4.42 ERA in 92 innings line, we are in awfully good shape.

[Oxy]

I think Narveson has been good. He's always going to be shaky in the 5th-7th innings.

As a general rule, starting pitcher's perform worse as the game goes on, so it's no surprise that a #5 pitcher would have below average performance the third time through the order. Managers in general should have quicker hooks with mediocre/average starting pitchers, regardless of their performance in that particular game.

This is probably true if the object is to win the current game and the current game only. The way rosters are constructed these days it makes the application of this pretty hard to do though over the long haul. If everybody were healthy this season for the Brewers, they would have a pretty decent roster this season for being more liberal with the pen, with lots of fairly interchangeable arms that have minor league options in order to keep guys fresh.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Guys you're way off on this. Our starters have been really really good. The back end of our rotation should be exceeding everyone's expectations. We're up 3 games and people on the board are blasting RR, WHAT A JOKE!!!