mlb discussing reallignment (2 15 team leagues)

[RyDogg66]

I already solved the reallignment mess a while back. Here is a link to the thread:

 

http://brewersfandemonium...should-probably-consider

 

Yeah, it's drastic, but it would be completely awesome and makes tons of sense.

[Tbadder]

I've always been for contraction. Simply eliminate the smallest market teams and let capitalism work its magic. Escalating salaries won't matter because top to bottom payrolls should be much closer percentage-wise. I'd have 24 teams with two divisions of six teams. I'd take the top three teams in each division and go back to a 154 game schedule.

[GAME05]

ugh. i'm so much against adding playoff teams that once they do, i won't really care much what they do with the divisions after that. and adding more DHs makes it all the worse.

 

i really like the divisions as they are, and i even like the Wild Card (ironic considering my hatred of adding playoff teams). maybe the Brewers have an extra team to compete against, but more opponents in such an unbalanced sport just means more games against marginal opponents.

 

if anything, contract and let one of the NL Central teams go to the AL.

 

granted, i'm already bitter and think that any move Selig would make to "better" baseball beyond fixing the money problem has more to do with getting fans to ignore the money problem.

[Team Canada]

No way should they add new teams. There are some cities that don't adequately support the teams they have. It's too bad they didn't contract a couple teams when they tried. More teams...less chances for a title. It's going to be hard enough for a small market team to win it as it is.

The problem is, as posted earlier, that the best choices for 2 more teams are New York, and New York. They could totally support more teams.

[owbc]

Any amount of teams where Yuniesky Betancourt can be a starting shortstop is too many for me. But with all MLB teams averaging over 16,000 fans/game, there are too many fans that will get upset if contraction were to take place. All 30 markets have shown the ability to support their team at one time or another. Montreal was in the 9,000 fans/game range when they were moved with no television deal at all. Even Tampa Bay and Oakland have a long way to fall to reach that level.

 

Expansion would never be approved by the owners. The markets making money do not want to subsidize more small market teams. The small market teams do not want more teams to compete with. The teams in proximity to the new teams do not want competition in their market.

 

The new Wildcard idea is likely to be approved. It will be a one-game playoff. Good for the fans and TV ratings, but the Brewers will inevitably find themselves in one of those games in the next 10 years. Envision the 2011 Brewers falling one game short of the division title and then putting Randy Wolf or Chris Narveson on the mound with the 162-game season on the line against the Braves, who are well-rested because the Phillies ran away with the division.

 

Finally, I think Houston will not want to go to the AL. Yeah, the AL West is weak right now, but the frequent flights out west would not be fun for the players or the fans. A quick glance at the message board opinion in Houston suggests the fans are very opposed--with their disapproval of the DH being the #1 reason. Baseball tends to move slowly and the realignment will wait until the next CBA.

[PKBadger]

Finally, I think Houston will not want to go to the AL. Yeah, the AL West is weak right now, but the frequent flights out west would not be fun for the players or the fans. A quick glance at the message board opinion in Houston suggests the fans are very opposed--with their disapproval of the DH being the #1 reason. Baseball tends to move slowly and the realignment will wait until the next CBA.

I think an ideal scenario would be to move Colorado to the AL West, and Houston to the NL West. Travel wouldn't be too bad for the Astros, since Phoenix and LA/San Diego are all in the southern half of the United States....the only long trip would be San Francisco.

[joepepsi]

I was thinking about this, and came up with an idea for scheduling it.

 

Play a 3 game set against everyone in interleague play. So 3x15= 45 interleague games.

Play 3 games home and away against the other divisions. 6x10= 60 non-divisional games

Play 14 games total against the divisional opponents. 14x4= 56 divisional games.

 

Comes out to 161 games. Losing one game isn't a huge loss for the owners, and would make the schedule more equitable, especially with interleague play.

 

Like I said, just a thought.

 

I really like this idea (a variation of it has been posted here before). I'm a big fan of playing every team in the other league at least once, simply because I think it enhances the marketability of the sport.

I had the same idea about a year ago, only playing divisional opponents 15 times. But 14 keeps the regular season about the same length. That's better, especially if you are adding a level of playoffs.

[trwi7]

Travel wouldn't be too bad for the Astros, since Phoenix and LA/San Diego are all in the southern half of the United States....the only long trip would be San Francisco.

They're still going through two time zones to get there.

[NeedMoreFans]

Finally, I think Houston will not want to go to the AL. Yeah, the AL

West is weak right now, but the frequent flights out west would not be

fun for the players or the fans.

The Rangers have to do this right now, so precedence is already there.

[Invader3K]

They need to do something. It's beyond stupid that they've had one six team division and one four team division for this long. Contraction and expansion are not happening, so going to two 15 team leagues seems the most sensible option. I personally enjoy interleague play and want to see the playoffs expanded, so I'm in favor of this.

[PKBadger]

Finally, I think Houston will not want to go to the AL. Yeah, the AL

West is weak right now, but the frequent flights out west would not be

fun for the players or the fans.

The Rangers have to do this right now, so precedence is already there.

Also, from 1969-1992 the NL West consisted of:

 

Atlanta (!)

Cincinnati

Houston

Los Angeles

San Diego

San Francisco

 

So there is already precedence for the Astros.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I'll bet those west coast games were fun for Atlanta tv and radio fans with their 10:00 pm start time.

 

I'm not opposed to year long interleague....if truth be told, I could do away with interleague altogether, but that would cause one team in each league to be 'off' at all times. That might not actually be a bad thing, but you'd have to shorten the schedule somewhat.

[Schlitz001]

I've always liked the idea of putting teams that are geographically close together in the same division. Jim Bowden does just this in his article on espn.com. I don't like his playoff system or schedule shifting, but I do like the idea of teams in the same city playing each other more often. I think you could take this model and increase the playoffs to 3 division winners and then 2 wild cards.

[jeffy]

Those divisions seem fine and I definitely like his idea of dropping the DH.

 

I don't understand his playoff scheme, he says:

 

Baseball’s present proposal is to increase the playoff teams from eight to 10, by adding a second wild-card team. The problem with that concept is that the division winners would have to sit and wait for the wild-card series to end. That might work in basketball and hockey, but not in baseball. In baseball, timing is important, and sitting and waiting is a detriment for both hitters and pitchers.

 

But then he has 12 teams and after his first round you would have 6, but then what?

 

I think 5 with the wildcards having a quick 3 game series is the best way to expand playoffs, if they must be expanded.

[paul253]

But then he has 12 teams and after his first round you would have 6, but then what?

 

I assume the top two teams in each league would have a bye.

 

If I were a baseball team I'd love to have three days off before a playoff series. That way you are basically assured that your ace is going to pitch game one. That's huge. I don't think sitting for three days after playing 162 games in like 180 days is going to hurt anyone's timing.

[Funketown]

So long as one of the divisions is Milwaukee, Houston, Pittsburgh, Washington, and Baltimore I'll be happy.

[jeffy]

I assume the top two teams in each league would have a bye.

 

Nope, he says: The division winner with the conference's best record, the No. 1 seed, would play the No. 6 seed

 

Plus he gives the opinion that a bye in baseball would would hurt the team that gets it. This is his reason for having 12 playoff teams, instead of 10.

 

Baseball’s present proposal is to increase the playoff teams from eight to 10, by adding a second wild-card team. The problem with that concept is that the division winners would have to sit and wait for the wild-card series to end. That might work in basketball and hockey, but not in baseball. In baseball, timing is important, and sitting and waiting is a detriment for both hitters and pitchers.

[Team Canada]

I was coming here to post about Bowden's article too. I like the divisions, but the playoff expansion is dumb. Baseball should remain distinct from the other leagues where every team that's not terrible gets in. That's why you play 162 games.

[MessiahRp]

I actually really liked Bowden's divisional realignment. As a Boston fan who recognizes that it is unfair that all the money tends to be divided out amongst the northeastern teams, making the Yankees, Mets, Sox and Phillies have to compete to basically eliminate each other every year sort of makes it more fair for everyone else. Also I may be in the minority but I love the idea of the Brewers back in the AL and the two Chicago teams and Cards being in that same division with them. Seems like an incredibly intense division and quite a lot of fun games to watch there.

 

His playoff and schedule ideas weren't that great though. I could live with expansion to 6 teams each but imagine if the two teams with the top records in a league were the division winner and the wild card... so the Wild Card with a great record plays in the first round when potentially an 85-90 win team gets the second bye? Yikes. I'm cool with two byes if they go to best record, not best record IF you won the division.

[davego]

If there would be expansion, I'd say it would need to be in the NY/NJ area. A third team there would spread that market out a bit, "let capitalism work its magic" was stated earlier in the thread.

 

I'm Ok with 2 more playoff teams as it gives more playoff opportunity, and that is good for the smaller market teams.

 

The idea floated out there of each team getting a 3-game bye is an interesting thought.

 

Not sure what their position would be now, but I read something years ago that the player's union would support the drop of the DH if roster sizes went up by one and there was some sort of assurance on salaries.

[Invader3K]

I think it's much more likely that the NL will adopt the DH than to drop it. Such a move will be driven by the high investments teams make in starting pitchers these days.

[berniebrewer4life]

I think it's much more likely that the NL will adopt the DH than to drop it. Such a move will be driven by the high investments teams make in starting pitchers these days.

Not to mention it would be almost impossible to get the Players Assoc. to agree to remove a starting position(thus lowering the pay of 14 players dramatically).

[jeffy]

Also I may be in the minority but I love the idea of the Brewers back in the AL...

 

No he does away with the leagues, it would be a conference...see how different that is Conference, not league.

 

 

 

I"d guess that players who sit on the bench in the AL would like to do away with the DH, so that they'd get playing time. I've hoped the players might go for no DH in exchange for roster expansion to 27. This seems like a reasonable expansion to me, because long ago teams typically carried 10 pitchers, now they have 12, so adding 2 to the bench would allow it to be restored it to the 7 that used to be common.

[Warning Track Power]

I think the solution is simple if we can get past traditionalists who don't want to mix the leagues. I used to be one of them. However, if the DH and interleague play aren't going anywhere, the realities dictate that it doesn't matter if the leagues are mixed. Geographic realignment by far makes the most sense. To me it betters the game significantly by highlighting intracity rivalries like NYY-NYM, and enchances regional rivalries like Milwaukee-Minnesota, Cleveland-Cincinnati, Houston-Texas. Looking at it when you break it out into four divisions geographically, the logistics become so glaringly obvious its mindblowing how much better the league would be. For example, look how a geographic realignment would look:

 

AL WEST	AL NORTH	NL SOUTH	NL EAST
Seattle Mariners	Milwaukee Brewers	TB Rays	New York Yankees
San Francisco Giants	Chicago Cubs	Atlanta Braves	New York Mets
Oakland Athletics	Chicago White Sox	Miami Marlins	Philadelphia Phillies
Los Angeles Dodgers	Minnesota Twins	Texas Rangers	Boston Red Sox
Los Angeles Angels	Pittsburgh Pirates	Houston Astros	Toronto Blue Jays
San Diego Padres	Cleveland Indians	St. Louis Cardinals	Baltimore Orioles
Arizona Diamondbacks	Cincinnati Reds	Kansas City Royals	Washington Nationals
Colorado Rockies			Detroit Tigers

 

Call the Divisions whatever you want to call them North, South, East...AL, NL. Doesn't matter. The only team that sort of bites the bullet are the Tigers being with the East when they are further west than Clevland and Pittsburgh. However, market size would dicatate they be in the East and it isn't too much of a stretch to put them in that division. The west is perfect with only Colorado being outside the Pacific time zone. Travel times and expenses would be reduced significantly for all teams being closer to home. Assuming the added playoff, the two division winners and the next best 3 records make the playoffs for the AL and NL. This alignment works far better than the current proposal with Houston switching to the AL and two 15 team divisions. I hope MLB would look into radical realignment rather than the proposed simple realignment that doesn't really solve the problem.

[ganz79]

This is too radical and would never happen but it could work...

 

No AL and NL, instead 3 divisions of 10 teams

 

West- Sea, Oak, SF, LAD, LAA, SD, Ariz, Col, Tex, Hou

Central - StL, KC, Min, Mil, Cubs, WSox, Det, Cle, Cin, Pit

East - Tor, NYY, NYM, Phi, Bos, Bal, Wsh, TB, Fla, Atl

 

Season would be 162 games,

72 divisional games (8 games vs 9 other teams)

90 non divisional games (6 games vs 10 teams, 3 games vs other 10 teams, there would be seasonal rotation as to which teams you'd play 6 vs which you'd play 3. i.e. Brewers would play Yankees 6 times and Boston 3 times in one year, 3 vs Yanks and 6 vs Boston the next year)

 

Postseason would have 13 playoff teams which helps small market teams (3 div. winners, and 10 wild cards)

Knockout Round

Round of 8

Round of 4

World Series

 

3 division winners would get bye to Round of 8

 

Knockout round would be one games series all on same day (maybe the Tuesday after the season ends) #1 Wild Card vs #10 Wild Card, #2 vs #9, etc. Start with an east coast game at noon ET, and start the next game every 2 hours or so, and finish with a west coast game at around 8 ET.

 

5 Knockout Round winners join 3 divsion winners in Round of 8.

 

Round of 8 would be best of 5 series with all games in higher seeds ballpark (no travel, no days off). The divison winners would be the top 3 seeds, similar to NHL and NBA first rounds . Winners advance to Round of 4 where they are reseeded and have tradtional 7 games series. The team with the better record will have home field advantage in Round of 4 and World Series, which should end in October rather than November.

 

The only things this does is makes the All Star Game difficult. Heck, get rid of it, or make it some radical pick 'em exhibition game.

 

This gets more teams in the postseason, helping smaller market teams, makes winning the division important and makes your record imporant to host games in the first two rounds. Also keeps all rivalries intact

 

...but will never happen http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/frown.gif