Ideas to afford Prince Fielder

[jeffy]

I think it is likely that finances can afford Prince/Marcum or Greinke/Marcum. I think the real choice will come down to Greinke or Fielder.

 

Greinke supposedly passed up a $100 million extension to come here. Seems like he is far more likely to consider factors other than money. If he'd like to stay, they can offer him an extension before Fielder hits free agency. If he is not interested, they can then offer that money to Fielder as a free agent.

[RockCoCougars]

Prince is the Bret Saberhagen of hitters, so this 'odd-year' explosion was pretty predictable. He's going to cash-in in a very big way, and sadly every HR he hits makes it less likely that he stays in Milwaukee. If the Brewers somehow won the World Series, I could see Attanasio making the 'impulse buy', but that would probably be the only way.

[Tbadder]

Its nice to be creative when it comes to contracts, but if one pays out here...one will not be able to afford there, especially a small market team. I think it's imperative that Fielder walks. That he walks to Chicago is the only thing that makes his leaving galling (I'm really hoping he ends up in Baltimore or Anaheim). I'd use the money to sign pitchers. If Doug hasn't seen what pitching can do for you this year, then there truly is no hope for the dude. If we can find a ss that can pick it, and a first class defensive replacement at 1st base who can hit a little bit over average, we might make up for the tremendous offensive loss Prince's leaving will bring. The Brewers by definition will have to be a team that wins with most of its players in the first 6 years of their careers. That's why the farm system has to be replenished as quickly as possible and must remain the main source of player acquisition if the Brewers are to be successful long term.

[Ennder]

Right now Prince is 13th in WAR for all of MLB, 7th in the NL.

It's not really fair just to look at this season for Prince though, is it? Since 2007, he's 24th in the majors in WAR. Since 2008, he's 28th.

Complete semantics though. If you wanted to be literal RIGHT NOW would mean what they did today and not even what they did this year. If you want to know who the best players are right now you would use more than just this years stats.

[UeckerAddict]

Prince is gone after this year. I believed it two years ago and nothing has changed in my mind. I wish it weren't so, but I don't dare hold on to hope. No point in letting myself get deflated later on. As long as he's not playing in the division next year, I'll be fine.

[monty57]

Please lets NOT make this a thread about whether Prince is worth it or not. Let's just brainstorm ways to make a contract happen (just for discussion's sake).

 

I'll play:

 

-Fielder & Marcum get extensions

-Hart gets traded for a good young SS who can take over for the next six years relatively cheaply.

-Gamel takes over RF

-Greinke gets traded for two young MLB-ready starters. Melvin couldn't get two young arms for Fielder, so I don't know how likely it would be to get them for Greinke, but I'm trying to make this work.

-Some of our young pitchers actually beat the Brewers curse and make it to the major leagues

 

We would have Prince, Weeks, {young SS}, McGehee/Green, Lucroy, Braun, Morgan/Gomez/Schafer, Gamel all signed (or "under control") long-term. That's every position on the field, so we're set there. Our bench should be able to be filled from within the system for the foreseeable future with the likes of Farris, Wilson, Gindl, Katin, Boggs, Kottaras/Maldanado. Likewise, our bullpen (other than Saito and Hawkins) are young, and we should be able to add pieces from the farm in the future.

 

Next season, we would have a rotation of Yo, Marcum, Wolf, and some combination of Narveson, the young pitchers Greinke was traded for, and our current minor leaguers. Wolf leaves after 2012, and his spot is filled from within the system.

 

I haven't figured what the price tags would be, so maybe this isn't feasible. I also don't know the likelihood of getting two young MLB ready pitchers for Greinke, but this is my best shot at making it work.

[rluzinski]

Braun's first deal certainly had a home town discount. I don't think the second one did, though.

It may end up being a slight discount for some of the years if he keeps performing.

Of course, if Braun's production drops off dramatically in 2013, this will deal will look like a huge overpay. You have to judge a deal based on average expected performance over the life of the contract, not what's possible. Obviously, projections are somewhat subjective but we should expect age to start catching up with Braun during his contract.

[jeffy]

If Braun's first deal was a discount it was because he chose to shift the risk to the team. He got a guaranteed large sum of money, if he were injured or not as successful as projected, he still would have all that money for certain. He was restricted in who he could negotiate with at that time, so that may have resulted in a discount as the only way to get certainty was to sign a contract with the Brewers.

 

Fielder chose to take the risk in exchange for a larger payoff, if things went as he hoped...and they seem to be doing just that.

[Oxy]

Considering Braun's contract status right now, is he the most powerful person in the Brewers organization next to Mark Attanasio?

[logan82]

I think a lot of the plans are really short term. Sure winning the World Series will boost attendance and revenues, but not for the 7+ years that Fielder is asking for. Getting rid of current players like Hart and Wolf also is a short term fix.

[paul253]

Prince is gone after this year. I believed it two years ago and nothing

has changed in my mind. I wish it weren't so, but I don't dare hold on

to hope. No point in letting myself get deflated later on. As long as

he's not playing in the division next year, I'll be fine.

 

This is how I feel. After the game last night I came on here with the idea of starting a "Let's keep Fielder" thread but the fact is we just can't do it. We should be happy that we have someone in Gamel who should be able to put up at least reasonable numbers as his replacement. It's just so important that we resign either Marcum or Greinke or both and we can't do that if we are paying Fielder $22 million every year for 6 years. I am actually thinking they should trade Hart too and take that money to resign both Marcum and Greinke. It's also just as important that we start having better drafts to replace the position players and get some pitchers who are actually capable of pitching in MLB. I'm cautiously optimistic with the Brewers first three picks this year but we still need a lot of help offensively down on the farm. I am just praying that we get 2 first round picks for Fielder but I am not even confident in that because the two teams I keep hearing his name associated with are Baltimore and the Cubs. We're going to end up with a second round pick for him, I just know it.

[carniesandrubes]

Prince doesn't want to play here any longer than he has to. He's made that pretty clear by his actions (or lack thereof).

 

Attanasio could easily just pony up the extra $. This team is a sub-.500 team likely without Prince. By losing him, they are going to lose millions in associated revenue (ticket/merch sales, etc...).

 

Attanasio could eat the year-to-year loss because the value of the franchise when he sells should be higher with a better performing team and better financial numbers (attendance, etc...)

 

I really wish they would have tried to get him signed through 2012 so we had 2 years to "go for it" instead of just this year, but that ship has sailed. He's gone after this year now.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Prince doesn't want to play here any longer than he has to. He's made that pretty clear by his actions (or lack thereof).

 

Attanasio could easily just pony up the extra $. This team is a sub-.500 team likely without Prince. By losing him, they are going to lose millions in associated revenue (ticket/merch sales, etc...).

 

Attanasio could eat the year-to-year loss because the value of the franchise when he sells should be higher with a better performing team and better financial numbers (attendance, etc...)

 

I really wish they would have tried to get him signed through 2012 so we had 2 years to "go for it" instead of just this year, but that ship has sailed. He's gone after this year now.

Really disagree that the Brewers will be a sub-.500 team without Prince. As long as they still have good pitching there's no way they won't compete. Gamel is definitely a drop-off offensively at 1B, but it's not to the point that it'll cause them to be under .500. Prince is definitely a big part of the the success of the offense, but everything comes back to the pitching staff, and if the Greinke and Marcum are kept this team can compete for many years to come. It's not all reliant on Fielder. A bit of a dip in production at 1B can be made up for with good pitching, and production from other players. They would likely end up as a sub-.500 team if they decided to keep Fielder over Greinke and Marcum. Pitching is far more important to this team, especially in the near future. We all saw how bad this team was without good pitching. It's far more productive to keep a few key pitchers, than to blow $25 million a year on Fielder. The contract he gets will look especially bad years down the line when he starts to decline. It just isn't feasible for this organization to spend that much money on one player, much less a position player.

[Schlitz001]

The team in 2013 with Fielder under contract will look a lot like the team in 2010, only with less money available for pitching. We won't have Greinke and Marcum anymore because that money will be tied up with Fielder and our other "core" players and as of right now we don't have anyone in the minors that looks to be a #1 or #2 type starter by 2013. The money is much better spent on Greinke and/or Marcum. Fielder is just not a smart sign in my opinion, because of the money, because of his defense, and because of the likelihood that he will regress faster than the average player (see Cecil). Unless he gives Milwaukee a major discount (which Boras won't want), it's just not a smart signing. And getting rid of Corey Hart puts another hole in our offense, even if his current contract is a little bit high. Compare Hart's contract to Werth or Bay and the numbers that they are putting up.

 

Even a World Series win isn't going to buy more than a few years max of a Fielder extension.

[paul253]

I'll tell you what though if Prince leaves and we still don't resign Greinke or Marcum or both, I'm going to be awfully upset.

[TheCrew07]

Teams like Milwaukee really need guys like Fielder to build their reputation and establish their place in baseball history. You become a great franchise by having legendary players and Fielder could be one of them someday.

 

I'm sorry but huh? Isn't the goal here to win championships? I thought you said the playoffs validated Milwaukee and your fandom, wasn't you that made that wonderfully sentimental post in 2008 (I mean that sincerely btw)? Now resigning Braun and Fielder validates Milwaukee? Where does it stop? When Milwaukee has a top 10 payroll and is still the smallest market in the game?

 

There simply isn't money to have everyone signed. If you want to sign Fielder then 2 of Greinke, Marcum, and Hart need to go because they are the most marketable players the Brewers can part with. People also want a SS and a possible upgrade at 3B. Where's all the money going to from? Ticket prices will continue to go up regardless of if they resign Fielder or not, the same idea was brought up for Sabathia and I disagree that "the fans would understand". It's like saying people would accept a 10% tax hike for things to stay the way the way they are. Certainly some people would, but there would be just as many that would object on principle. That $2-3 may not seem like much, but percentage wise it is.

[rluzinski]

Am I the only one who thinks the Brewers will mostly likely not sign Fielder, Greinke OR Marcum?

[PrinceEatMeat]

Am I the only one who thinks the Brewers will mostly likely not sign Fielder, Greinke OR Marcum?

I think we'll at least keep one of Greinke and Marcum.

[Ennder]

Am I the only one who thinks the Brewers will mostly likely not sign Fielder, Greinke OR Marcum?

Probably not, but you are the minority. I really think they will make every effort to sign Greinke or Marcum since the minor league pitching is so far away still.

[Oxy]

Am I the only one who thinks the Brewers will mostly likely not sign Fielder, Greinke OR Marcum?

Wolf, Marcum, and Greinke all have contracts ending after next year. Wolf is old and very average so there is no way we bring him back unless it is for very cheap. I find it hard to believe that Melvin won't make a good run at signing Marcum and/or Greinke, because with the state of the farm as it is we are going to have to sign somebody anyway. Those guys will already be established here, and both seem like guys who are a good fit for the city and ballclub. I won't be shocked if neither of them sign, but I think it's more likely than not.

 

Prince is long gone though. David Ortiz and Jorge Posada are the DH's out East. One of those teams will overpay for an excellent DH. LAA and Baltimore are possibilities as well.

[jeffy]

This team is a sub-.500 team likely without Prince.

 

With Prince they have mostly been a sub .500 team. Overall they are 405-405, exactly .500, for his 5 full seasons.

 

2010 77 85 .475

2009 80 82 .494

2008 90 72 .556

2007 83 79 .512

2006 75 87 .463

 

 

The one year they were significantly above .500 and made the playoffs, they had Ben Sheets and half a season of CC Sabathia. Had Sheets not ended up injured, they likely would have done better in the playoffs.

 

Fielder had a much better year in 2007 and 2009 than he did in 2008, yet 2008 was the best year the team has had with Fielder on the roster. The 2008 version of Fielder is a lot easier to replace than the 2008 version of Sheets and Sabathia.

[monty57]

With Prince they have mostly been a sub .500 team. Overall they are 405-405, exactly .500, for his 5 full seasons.

 

2010 77 85 .475

2009 80 82 .494

2008 90 72 .556

2007 83 79 .512

2006 75 87 .463

 

Not to get off topic, but it's kind of sad that the "glory days" we dreamed of when we had Prince, JJ, Rickie, etc in the minors and were suffering through 100+ loss seasons has netted us a .500 record and one playoff appearance.

[jeffy]

Actually that is on-topic, imo, shows the problem with building a one dimensional team, which is what may be if signing Prince meant a rotation of Yo followed by something like 2 mediocre and 2 bad starters.

[xisxisxis]

Not to get off topic, but it's kind of sad that the "glory days" we

dreamed of when we had Prince, JJ, Rickie, etc in the minors and were

suffering through 100+ loss seasons has netted us a .500 record and one

playoff appearance.

 

And where does that responsibility lie?

 

 

Am I the only one who thinks the Brewers will mostly likely not sign Fielder, Greinke OR Marcum?

 

Won't be able to sign or won't try to sign? If they all decide to test Free Agency then yes the Brewers will most likely not sign any of them because the Brewers can't outbid a majority of teams. I believe that Mark Attanoseio will definitely want to retain at least one to keep the sheep walking through the turnstiles and paying big money for a team just good enough to look like a contender. At some point spending money to make money will override strict budget limitations.

[AJAY]

When I started this thread, I was hoping to hear people's creative ideas for how we could sign Prince Fielder (as opposed to arguing about whether he is worth the money or not). Not surprisingly, this discussion has gone in many directions.

 

So I really want to hear your ideas . . . .

 

Suppose the Brewers management hired you as a consultant and told you that they wanted to make signing Prince Fielder a priority and that your only job was to find a way to make it happen. What would you suggest?

 

Let's see what people come up with.