I can't get over how awful our bench is

[RockCoCougars]

I'm kind of indifferent to the whole Nieves/Kottaras thing. Obviously no one hitting .146 in June deserves a roster spot, but (outside of Estrada) Kottaras was the worst defensive catcher that I can remember in a Brewers uniform. What if Lucroy went down in the playoffs with Kottaras as the backup? Teams would run wild on him. In 2001, I never thought that I'd be pining for Henry Blanco in a Brewer uniform, but in hindsight, what a perfect off season acquisition he would have been- for roughly half a million more than Nieves.

[TooLiveBrew]

What if Lucroy went down in the playoffs with Kottaras as the backup? Teams would run wild on him.

 

What if Lucroy went down with Nieves as the backup? That would be 3 to 4 automatic offensive outs per game.

[RockCoCougars]

What if Lucroy went down in the playoffs with Kottaras as the backup? Teams would run wild on him.

 

What if Lucroy went down with Nieves as the backup? That would be 3 to 4 automatic offensive outs per game.

True. Which begs the question. For fun, let's say the Brewers make the World Series. If Gallardo, Greinke or Narveson were to start a road game, could they let the pitcher hit and DH for Nieves? I'm thinking no, but it would be funny (albeit humiliating for Wil).

[adambr2]

Kottaras isn't very good for his career in throwing out baserunners, about 17%. Still, he started this year 2 for 7, and one thing they mentioned was about how he had worked hard in the offseason to improve that. Wil Nieves is 24% for his careeer in throwing out baserunners. I don't see the difference right now being anything significant at all, and I don't think we'd be in trouble with Kottaras as our starter if Lucroy went down as much as we'd be in trouble overall if Lucroy went down and we were stuck with Nieves as our starter.

[monty57]

Everyone's calling for Kottaras... why not Rivera? He plays good defense and is decent offensively for a catcher. Plus, he has the "veteran presence" Roenicke wants.

 

I think Kottaras should stay in AAA to work on his defense. If he can improve there, he will certainly be a good backup. Nieves should just be cut as there's no reason for him to be on a MLB roster and he's too old to improve.

[JoeHova]

I don't understand why managers and GMs will sometimes allow a middling pitcher to dictate the use of one of the team's roster spots. Tony Gwynn's friendship with Prince and Rickie wasn't enough to keep him on the team but for some reason Randy Wolf has the ability to decide who should be on the team? Annoying. Can't wait until Wolf is gone.

[endaround]

I don't understand why managers and GMs will sometimes allow a middling pitcher to dictate the use of one of the team's roster spots. Tony Gwynn's friendship with Prince and Rickie wasn't enough to keep him on the team but for some reason Randy Wolf has the ability to decide who should be on the team? Annoying. Can't wait until Wolf is gone.

They stood up to Wolf and sent his friend Kottaras down and kept Nieves. That'll show those prima donnas!

[1992casey]

could they let the pitcher hit and DH for Nieves?

 

In Major and Minor League Baseball, a DH may only be designated to hit for the pitcher.

[adambr2]

Okay, this is a big if, but to me the Nieves bad/Wolf good scenario is way more important than the Kottaras good/Wolf bad scenario.

P.S. Nice breakdown ReverendBrewmeister.

 

That's actually a logical reason for Nieves to be here, but there's no way I'm going to buy it. I don't believe for a second that Kottaras and Wolf lack some sort of game chemistry (Kottaras was Wolf's primary catcher during his great 2nd half run last year), any more than I believe that a 33 year journeyman backup is some sort of gamecalling guru that instantly improves the performance of any pitcher who pitches to him.

[Invader3K]

Kottaras is just killing the ball in AAA. I know that doesn't necessarily translate to big leauge success, but I don't know how Doug Melvin isn't doing something to boost our bottom of the order production. When you have Nieves in the order, you have about four automatic outs at the bottom of the order.

[adambr2]

The other thing that Kottaras gives us is that late inning power bat which is completely absent from the bench right now.

[thebruce44]

The other thing that Kottaras gives us is that late inning power bat which is completely absent from the bench right now.

Won't RR not PH the second catcher in case the starter gets hurt?

[Oxy]

The other thing that Kottaras gives us is that late inning power bat which is completely absent from the bench right now.

Won't RR not PH the second catcher in case the starter gets hurt?

He's done it multiple times this year already.

[Funketown]

Just for fun, I typed Wil Nieves' career major league batting line into an MLE calculator to predict his AAA equivalent. Here's what popped out: .251/.310/.338/.648. His PCL Equivalent for this year is .172/.237/.223/.460! His A-ball equivalent is .212/.298/.277/.575.

 

I also typed in Kottaras' AAA batting line and got his MLE. Here's what popped out: .303/.369/.516/.885.

 

Of course these models ought to be taken with a grain of salt, but they're still a pretty fun toy to play around with.

 

Does anybody know if Kottaras has any experience in the outfield, at 3B, or 1B? At his Zips projection (.230/.320/.380/.700) he would be a solid last guy off the bench utility type guy. Probably clutching at straws here of course.

[joepepsi]

Nieves and Counsell/Wilson are really the problems.

 

Nieves is a terrible defensive catcher. I've seen nothing to show otherwise. So it would be much better to have Kottaras or Rivera in that role.

 

Counsell and Wilson are redundant. Counsell is terrible on offense this year and can't play everyday, but he is a beloved member of the community, so he will never be released. However, that is probably what should be done. The fact they picked up Wilson at all is indicative of the sentiment that Counsell is not an option for anything more than a random start. He's wasting a roster spot as Player Emeritus.

 

When Morgan was injured and Kotsay playing (nearly) everyday it was infuriating. Boggs should have been in Kotsay's role at that time. Now that Morgan is back, and Kotsay basically in the role he was acquired for, it probably makes more sense for Boggs to be in AAA.

 

I think Gomez is a plus bench player, just not a good everyday player.

[Hate those Rodents]

I don't see Wilson as a problem at this point. He's been more of a solution than a problem TO THIS POINT. In a month, I may change my tune. But for now, he is working.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Having Nieves, Counsell, and Wilson on the roster basically equates to playing with 23 guys - Nieves is pretty much a batting tee since he gives you absolutely nothing offensively, and Counsell/Wilson are burning two roster spots for one role.

 

The bench would look SO much better if Kottaras replaced Nieves and one of Counsell/Wilson was replaced by Green or Gamel...heck, when Saito comes back just go with another bullpen arm.

[jmeks23]

I disagree. Wilson and Counsell may not have great bats but they make it up for it in other ways. Counsell is versatile and is a wily old veteran. May not seem like much, but remember that AB in STL a month ago? That's the kind of toughness he brings. Plus, he gets the occasional hit and works the count a lot, which I like off the bench. Wilson has looked good offensively, and also plays pretty well at SS which is sorely needed considering Yuni. Kotsay kind of stinks, but he is what he is. Nieves probably should be replaced, but the only reason Roenicke PH's his C (Lucroy) is because Nieves is playing. If Kottaras was on the bench, unless it's the 9th I doubt he's used. Gomez sucks but I'll take that speed and defensive prowess off the bench any day. I disagree that Gamel or Green make this team better on the bench as they aren't really that versatile. Starting or platooning is a different story.

[logan82]

Remember that one time that one guy did something good. Yeah we should keep him.

[cwolf2012]

"Does anybody know if Kottaras has any experience in the outfield, at 3B, or 1B? "

 

I wish this were possible, but it's not. He could play 1B, but anything more than that is a recipe for disaster.

[thebruce44]

The other thing that Kottaras gives us is that late inning power bat which is completely absent from the bench right now.

Won't RR not PH the second catcher in case the starter gets hurt?

He's done it multiple times this year already.

Thanks. I was thinking he only did it when we had the 3 catchers on the roster.

[Funketown]

Remember that one time that one guy did something good. Yeah we should keep him.

Unfortunately this logic cannot be applied to keeping Nieves.

[logan82]

Remember that one time that one guy did something good. Yeah we should keep him.

Unfortunately this logic cannot be applied to keeping Nieves.

That logic seems to be applied to keeping Counsell, Wilson and Kotsay by management and some posters.

[MNBrew]

Katin would also be an answer to #5 above, but Melvin doesn't seem to know he exists.

Katin's .239 BA, .314 OBP, and 41 K's in 109 AB's probably are doing plenty to help Melvin pass him over. 11 HRs and 25 RBIs at this point will only get him so far when his bat's so full of holes.

[MNBrew]

"Just was curious . . . our bench of Rob Picciolo, Ned Yost, Ed Romero, Roy Howell, Marshall Edwards, Bob Skube, Mark Brouhard, and Don Money in '82 wasn't all that impressive either."

 

Take it back..... Brouhard was clutch. Howell and Money were both brutal though in a DH platoon (which the team was forced to go with due to another year of false Larry Hisle comeback hopes). I mentioned on another post how Josh Wilson is Picciolo to Counsell's Romero.

I'm no Josh Wilson apologist, but a comparison to Picciolo in '82 seems quite a swipe. Picciolo was like Enrique Cruz the 2nd half of his year in MIL or the 3rd quarterback who practically never suits up: the Brewers got Picciolo from Oakland in mid-May. From then 'til the end of the season, he played in 22 games and got 21 ABs with 7 hits & 1 RBI. Wilson is 5-18 so far (.278) but has 2 HRs & 3 RBIs. . . . Total production is similar, but it's taken Wilson a couple weeks to do this so far compared to 4.5 months for Picciolo, the most invisible & anonymous member of the '82 Brewers.