JJ Hardy

[jjfanec]

Yea but Betancourt is a type B? How? McGehee and Betancourt are right next to each other on the list.

 

Casey McGehee Milwaukee B 68.3673469387755 3B

 

Yuniesky Betancourt Milwaukee B 60.248447204969 SS

Betancourt has a team option next year right? So if the team declines that option we get no compensation is that correct? Getting a sandwich pick for Bentacourt would be stealing

[endaround]

Offering Betancourt arby would be insane.

[jjfanec]

Offering Betancourt arby would be insane.

Oh I know. I wonder if he will even be on a major league roster next year.

[adambr2]

We would have to offer Betancourt arbitration (which would be insane of us), and Betancourt would have to decline (equally insane of him), in order to get a pick.

 

Hopefully a top 15 team signs Prince so we get a 1st rounder for him, and we will also get a sandwich pick. If we're really lucky, we could get a sandwich pick for Loe.

[endaround]

Loe is 2 years away from free agency.

[pretendastronaut]

An extension maybe coming this week;

 

With the Orioles and his agent engaging in semi-regular conversations about a potential contract extension, shortstop J.J. Hardy is hopeful that an agreement can be reached during the All-Star break.

 

“I hope it gets done during the break,” said Hardy, who is a free agent after the season. “I don’t know if it will. Right now, the ball is kind of in their court. That’s where it’s at.”

 

Source

[danzig6767]

An extension maybe coming this week;

 

With the Orioles and his agent engaging in semi-regular conversations about a potential contract extension, shortstop J.J. Hardy is hopeful that an agreement can be reached during the All-Star break.

 

“I hope it gets done during the break,” said Hardy, who is a free agent after the season. “I don’t know if it will. Right now, the ball is kind of in their court. That’s where it’s at.”

 

Source

If Baltimore does give Hardy an extension, i'll be very curious to see the size and length of the contract. Off the top of my head, i can't really even guess at numbers which i'd be confident were close to what he ends up getting.

[endaround]

The weird thing about that is that one of the Orioles top prospects in a SS. Now Machado's only 19 but he handled low A. And so while he likely won't be ready in 2012 many think he'll be ready sometime in 2013 or the beginning of 2014 and they gave him a huge bonus to sign.

[Warning Track Power]

I'd guess somewhere around 3 years/$24MM.

 

Pricey, but probably what it will take given that the Orioles most likely won't contend during that time period. If I were JJ, I would go to free agency because lots of teams need a SS like him.

[Warning Track Power]

Thinking about JJ...

An Orioles extension really makes zero sense to me unless it is being done to raise his value even more before being dealt. I know this sounds a little backwards for the O's and especially JJ to do this but put yourself in the O's shoes. Wouldn't a re-signed JJ be worth more on the market than a FA-to-be JJ? Wouldn't we offer less than what we would if he was signed for the next 2 years after this? As for JJ, wouldn't he want to be signed long term and have a limited no trade clause to sort of determine and dictate where he could end up?

I'm really beginning to think the JJ-O's "extension" talk is real posturing (hoping) before he is going to be dealt.

[TheCrew07]

I'm not sure I understand why the O's are years away from contending? It makes alot of sense for them to lock up Hardy as their young pitching should only get better with age. Unless of course people think that Matusz is really an 8+ ERA pitcher?

 

The O's shouldn't take any propsect package worse than what the compensation would be for losing Hardy in free agency.

[endaround]

The Orioles are a terrible team in the most brutal division of all of sports. They aren't going anywhere soon.

[TheCrew07]

The Orioles are a terrible team in the most brutal division of all of sports. They aren't going anywhere soon.

Thanks for that insightful and informative post.

 

 

[Warning Track Power]

I'm not sure I understand why the O's are years away from contending? It makes alot of sense for them to lock up Hardy as their young pitching should only get better with age. Unless of course people think that Matusz is really an 8+ ERA pitcher?

 

The O's shouldn't take any propsect package worse than what the compensation would be for losing Hardy in free agency.

I was high on the O's...and then the season began. I legitimately believed they may be able to sneak their way into a 85ish win season with comeback years from Lee, Guerrero and yes, Hardy. Having seen them play 90ish games now, I think it is safe to say they are a few years of seasoning for their SP away from contending. Lee and Guerrero will need to be replaced. Wieters, Markakis and Adam Jones are a nice core. JJ would fit in that core, but I don't think their SP will be truly able to compete until 2013 or 2014 or the very end of a likely JJ extension when his value will undoubtedly be much lower.

 

They have multiple prospects at SS, which makes re-signing JJ a meh move to me. It is a more status quo move and status quo isn't good enough to beat the Yankees or Red Sox. JJ is a tradeable commodity and I would look to deal him for multiple MLB ready position players to be ready to compete in 2013 or 2014 when their SP is starting to become really good.

[ninja33]

Wieters, Markakis, Jones, and Hardy make a solid core, to go along with a young pitching staff. Reynolds is having a good year. The Orioles are always trying to spend money, what's to stop them from trying to sign a guy like Prince to really turn that lineup into something special? I don't think it's a terrible idea for them to extend Hardy. And they can probably get it done at a fair price because I'm sure JJ would like some stability for the first time in a few seasons.

[HiAndTight]

The Orioles are a terrible team in the most brutal division of all of sports. They aren't going anywhere soon.

The Tampa Bay DEVIL Rays are a terrible team in the most brutal division in all of sports. They aren't going anywhere soon.

 

 

 

 

Oops...

[HiAndTight]

The weird thing about that is that one of the Orioles top prospects in a SS. Now Machado's only 19 but he handled low A. And so while he likely won't be ready in 2012 many think he'll be ready sometime in 2013 or the beginning of 2014 and they gave him a huge bonus to sign.

Not weird at all. They sign a very good shortstop to play right now while their 19 year old develops, thereby eliminating any need to rush the kid up.

 

And it's not exactly difficult to trade talented shortstops if and when the time comes.

[HiAndTight]

I'm not sure I understand why the O's are years away from contending? It makes alot of sense for them to lock up Hardy as their young pitching should only get better with age. Unless of course people think that Matusz is really an 8+ ERA pitcher?

 

The O's shouldn't take any propsect package worse than what the compensation would be for losing Hardy in free agency.

I made a lengthy post saying the same thing.

 

It's incredibly easy to envision the O's turning it around quickly. They have 5 talented pitchers between the ages of 23 and 25.

 

They have a couple guys who are incredibly talented, like potentially the best or top 2-3 in baseball.

Weiters is 25 years old and was described as a switch hitting Joe Mauer with 40 HR potential. He's already an elite defender and an all star.

Adam Jones is also 25 with a incredible amount of upside still.

Markakis is a career .300 hitter and just coming into his prime at 27 years old.

Reynolds has an .840 OPS and 20 HR's this year.

Obviously Hardy is a very good SS.

 

Britton, Arrieta, Tillman and Matusz are four middle to front of the rotation type pitchers who, again, range from 23-25 years old.

 

 

They've got a lot of money, and they've been one of the teams rumored to go after Prince. They sign Prince, Weiters and Jones take the next step and they could have a potentially dominating lineup. And they've certainly got the young talent.

[Raw Biz]

I'm not sure I understand why the O's are years away from contending? It makes alot of sense for them to lock up Hardy as their young pitching should only get better with age. Unless of course people think that Matusz is really an 8+ ERA pitcher?

 

The O's shouldn't take any propsect package worse than what the compensation would be for losing Hardy in free agency.

I made a lengthy post saying the same thing.

 

It's incredibly easy to envision the O's turning it around quickly. They have 5 talented pitchers between the ages of 23 and 25.

 

They have a couple guys who are incredibly talented, like potentially the best or top 2-3 in baseball.

Weiters is 25 years old and was described as a switch hitting Joe Mauer with 40 HR potential. He's already an elite defender and an all star.

Adam Jones is also 25 with a incredible amount of upside still.

Markakis is a career .300 hitter and just coming into his prime at 27 years old.

Reynolds has an .840 OPS and 20 HR's this year.

Obviously Hardy is a very good SS.

 

Britton, Arrieta, Tillman and Matusz are four middle to front of the rotation type pitchers who, again, range from 23-25 years old.

 

 

They've got a lot of money, and they've been one of the teams rumored to go after Prince. They sign Prince, Weiters and Jones take the next step and they could have a potentially dominating lineup. And they've certainly got the young talent.

With the AL East, it's not about simply being talented. It's about being more talented than the Yankees and Red Sox both. Obviously they have talent on the team but I still think it would be dumb to lock up Hardy to an extension (assuming he wants like 7-8 mil/yr), since I believe they have like 3 SS in their top 10 prospects.

[HiAndTight]

With the AL East, it's not about simply being talented. It's about

being more talented than the Yankees and Red Sox both. Obviously they

have talent on the team but I still think it would be dumb to lock up

Hardy to an extension (assuming he wants like 7-8 mil/yr), since I

believe they have like 3 SS in their top 10 prospects.

 

Yes, obviously they have to be better than the Yankees or Red Sox. The Yankees however are not this unbeatable entity. Again, I point to the Rays.

 

They also are likely going to have to deal with re-signing CC this off-season, Jeter, Posada and Arod are declining and they don't have great pitching.

 

 

I still don't see why it's dumb. They have very young SS's who are still a ways away, we're sitting here talking about how difficult it is to find a talented young Shortstop, and how hard it'd be to trade for Hardy. So if he actually signs for 7-8 million a year(I think it'll be more) then he should be easy to move. You get good production and then you trade him when your younger guys are ready. Are they suppose to just go with terrible, cheap players until the next wave is ready?

[Raw Biz]

With the AL East, it's not about simply being talented. It's about

being more talented than the Yankees and Red Sox both. Obviously they

have talent on the team but I still think it would be dumb to lock up

Hardy to an extension (assuming he wants like 7-8 mil/yr), since I

believe they have like 3 SS in their top 10 prospects.

 

Yes, obviously they have to be better than the Yankees or Red Sox. The Yankees however are not this unbeatable entity. Again, I point to the Rays.

 

They also are likely going to have to deal with re-signing CC this off-season, Jeter, Posada and Arod are declining and they don't have great pitching.

 

 

I still don't see why it's dumb. They have very young SS's who are still a ways away, we're sitting here talking about how difficult it is to find a talented young Shortstop, and how hard it'd be to trade for Hardy. So if he actually signs for 7-8 million a year(I think it'll be more) then he should be easy to move. You get good production and then you trade him when your younger guys are ready. Are they suppose to just go with terrible, cheap players until the next wave is ready?

I think it's dumb because I don't think he's worth the money it will cost to resign him (7-8 being on the cheaper end). Would I like to have him now? Well yeah because he's better than Yuni. But would I like to sign him to an extension for what he would want? No.

I also don't see Hardy as being the missing piece to put them over the top. Sure they could sign Prince next year but they'd still have an aging, declining Guerrero (not sure what his contract is like), strikeout/mendoza line king Reynolds, as well as various other pieces that IMO, are overrated (or in some cases, just haven't played up to their potential). Adam Jones is a stud and Markakis has had a couple good early years but has struggled this year. Wieters is still young but is struggling to put up a .700 OPS in his 3rd year. Brian Roberts is aging and declining (and is owed a lot) and Luke Scott hasn't done much either. They have some good young pitchers but I just don't think they will be good enough to compete with the Yankees/Red Sox. The Yankees have older players sure but they basically have an endless payroll so they can just go out and keep buying more stud free agents (unless something drastic changes in the bargaining agreement). The Red Sox have a pretty solid offensive core and some stud pitchers too.

I like a lot of the guys on the Orioles and I never said they weren't talented. Hell, they might all have career years next year. But I still don't think they would win the division/wild card. I also think they differ from the Rays because the Rays had great defense and great pitching. But who knows, maybe they could shorten their name to the O's and they'd win the division.

 

[yoshii8]

I wonder what it would take to get both Hardy and Reynolds from the O's, if there even available. I would think it would take at least 3 of our better prospects to get it done. We could use Reynolds next year to replace some of the power we might be losing w/ Prince. It would dramatically improve our offense. Although defensively Reynolds is having a terrible season, he was pretty good last season.

[Warning Track Power]

Interesting...I emailed Haudricourt about JJ coming back to Milwaukee and he said he didn't see it happening. When I followed up with a question about the reason and if any lingering bad blood between JJ and Melvin would be the issue preventing this, he answered the main reason he didn't see it was because of what the O's want in return. While this doesn't rule out bad blood between the two, I think that provides some insight that most of us don't have about the situation. Sounds like Melvin will at least entertain the idea of a JJ return, which is a start.

[Warning Track Power]

Today in the Baltimore Sun Blog...5th comment down in the article:

 

Jeff,

Two questions. Sunday it was reported that the Orioles and JJ Hardy hoped to make progress on a new contract during the All Star break. Are there any new developments to report? I think the Orioles need to keep him!

What is your opinion on the odds McPhail will be in his current position with the Orioles in 2012? Can the team do better or do all good baseball men stay away from the Orioles because of their ownership?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...............................................................................................

Jeff Z's reply: I checked into the Hardy deal yesterday and was told that there was nothing new to report. As for MacPhail, it's my gut feeling that he won't be back in his current capacity next season. There are only so many GM jobs available so I'm sure there would be plenty of interest in the position. Obviously, John Hart is the name you hear most, and he has a very good relationship with Showalter.

[reillymcshane]

I think the O's will try hard to resign Hardy to a 3-year deal - he provides a solid presence on a young team who have some solid young pitchers, plus some hitters that (probably) will improve (Jones, Weiters, Markakis). Losing Hardy would only cripple an already bad offense. But they have lots of questions, even with Hardy. I think they will attack that by going after Prince big-time this off season. They don't have a 1st baseman, and down the road, they could move Prince to DH if they want. The O's have shown a willingness to make a big play - like they did with Teixeira a couple of years ago.

 

Resigning JJ gives them a solid shortstop - and a good friend of Prince. I'm not saying they'll resign JJ just to try and make things more attractive to Prince, but it doesn't hurt.

 

Prince would freaking rake at Camden Yards. Assuming he got pitched to. Having Prince in the lineup would really help the O's hitters.