Bring up Taylor Green?

[HiAndTight]

Why not just bring Green up and send Wilson down? Counsel can focus strictly on shortstop because Green can play third base and second base.

Because Josh Wilson hits HR's in the 12th innings of games....

[Funketown]

Wilson is slugging .785 after over one third of the season has been played. I think we found our replacement for Fielder.

 

I still think Greene needs a bit more time in AAA; I just don't want to see the Brewers rush this guy. So long as McGehee can come close to his Zips projections, he won't hurt this team too badly...at least offensively.

[Ennder]

This is what McGehee is like when he is cold, he had spells like this each of his seasons. At some point he'll most likely get hot and it will even out. This is baseball, not sure why this discussion has to come up every single time a player struggles. Moving him down in the lineup is fine of course but bringing up a marginal at best prospect to replace him is just jumping the gun.

[rluzinski]

This is what McGehee is like when he is cold, he had spells like this each of his seasons. At some point he'll most likely get hot and it will even out. This is baseball, not sure why this discussion has to come up every single time a player struggles. Moving him down in the lineup is fine of course but bringing up a marginal at best prospect to replace him is just jumping the gun.

I agree that we shouldn't be benching the guy for a marginal prospect but I disagree with your "he'll most likely get hot" comment (gambler's fallacy?) He has a ZiPS rest of season projection of .264/.318/.413. Factor in his below average defense and his looks decidedly below average. Of course, he's getting paid peanuts so that's not the end of the world but 3B is certainly not a strength for the Brewers.

[Thurston Fluff]

Why does zips count more than two years worth of actual production? I ask merely for information.

[endaround]

ZiPS uses those 2 years of actual production.

 

Keep in mind McGehee only has 1324 PAs in MLB so its not like this year (235) is a small percentage of his career.

And if we keep "giving him a day off" this really should happen since Counsell has neither the bat nor does any longer have the arm to really play 3B.

[FVBrewerFan]

Problem is, it's longer than a "rough stretch." It's over 1/3 of the season, and he's getting worse as the season goes along. On top of that, he is playing arguably his worst defense as a Brewer. That's the problem. If he's not hitting, he's not helping in other aspects of the game. In fact he's hurting you in those other areas. Defense and speed on the bases to be exact.

 

So I'm not saying (nor do I think anyone else is) that we should "give up" on him. But the day off here and there hasn't helped. Even if you don't bring Green up, maybe Casey could use a few days off, then 2-3 weeks in Nashville to build up his confidence. Counsell and Wilson could play 3B during that time, doesn't have to be Green. GW HR aside, Wilson has looked preety good at the plate in limited opportunities, played the field well too.

 

There's a very real possibility McGehee won't break out of this funk, at least not this year. Hardy's last year in Milwaukee is a good example, there are many others. He had shown a history of power, and a respectable OBP. But we all know that he somehow lost it all in one season. We need to stop acting as if we know the outcome based on his past history in the minors, or his last two years, etc. These are all INDICATORS, but none of that takes into account what's going on between his ears right now. Maybe he comes around, maybe not. In the meantime, RR needs to try something else. Maybe it's as simple as moving him down to 7th in the lineup. I would take a bigger swing at it, and go the route I suggested above.

[Tedaldtada]

That ZIPS projection is an above average MLB third baseman batting line. Especially this year.

[logan82]

Look at Braun's May and June of 2010. Players have bad stretches. Nothing any player has done this year should have much impact on your opinion of them going forward.

 

Nothing McGehee has done this year has changed my opinion of him. I wasn't a big fan before the season started. Look up the "Left Handed sticks" thread. I don't think he is as bad as he has performed this year either. I don't think bringing up Green to platoon with McGehee would be a bad idea. I don't think McGehee is good enough not to be in a platoon though.

[homer]

That ZIPS projection is an above average MLB third baseman batting line. Especially this year.

If McGehee hits his ZIPS projection he'd be more than adequate. Third base is REALLY weak across baseball this year. Only three regulars have an OPS north of .800 and none above .900.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/st...n/3b/sort/OPS/order/true

[Thurston Fluff]

ZiPS uses those 2 years of actual production.

 

And mashes it all together to it to come up with something that inaccurately projected what his production would be in the past. I get that it is trying to project him going forward which is an inexact science. I even understand it very well could be a two year anomaly. I just don't get why you want him replaced for two bad months with someone who looks to be about the same type of player at this point. Let it play out. The team is doing well at this point so no radical changes need to be made. Especially with someone with limited AAA and zero major league experience.

[RobDeer 45]

Ya, way too early to move him off third. Like I said, if it continues and the defense is getting hurt as well, then we can look at other options. Right now I do think more days off to get him right is the way to go. He's not hurting us right now, but he sure could give us a boost if he can get hot.

[igor67]

Too early to give up on Casey, on the flipside it's also too early to think Green is ready. You have to give Green a chance to be adjusted to at AAA, and Casey out to return to at least adequate.

 

Next year is entirely different story however. Casey bloomed late with old players skills and bad defense. as a nugget he is hugely valuable, but he is definitely a guy you don't want to extend, and if Green looks OK with the bat they out to flip Casey in the offseason, bank the real money saved the player they get back in trade, and the big defense upgrade, and accept that the offense might be somewhat less, but could easily be comparable going forward.

[rluzinski]

Why does zips count more than two years worth of actual production? I ask merely for information.

I don't know what ZiPS does exactly but most projection systems use 3-5 years of production, weighting the most recent production more. For example, if I recall correctly, Marcel uses 3 years and uses 5-3-2 weights. Not exactly sure how these rest-of-season projections weight 2011 production when it comes to partial seasons. As end said though, his 235 PA this year makes up a significant part of his MLB career and he's been REALLY bad so far.

[Ennder]

I agree that we shouldn't be benching the guy for a marginal prospect but I disagree with your "he'll most likely get hot" comment (gambler's fallacy?)

 

I think you are reading things into my post that aren't there. I'm not saying because he has been cold he must get hot, I'm saying that at some point over the next 3+ months most likely he'll get hot and people will stop obsessing over his stats so much. Before the season started I would have probably guessed he had 2-3 cold months, 2-3 hot months and 2-3 mediocre months with no real way to know which of each he'd end up with. Him starting the year with a couple cold months isn't really a good reason to change your opinion of him and he almost certainly will get hot at some point.

 

From a scouting standpoint he was absolutely fine in April, he was hitting the ball with authority but was the guy who always seemed to hit right at someone. In May he has been pretty terrible. It just isn't the kind of sample that you worry about imo and it is the same exact thread that we see every single time a Brewer has a bad couple months.

[Oxy]

As end said though, his 235 PA this year makes up a significant part of his MLB career and he's been REALLY bad so far.

He's been REALLY bad if this were 2001. In 2011, I'd say he's merely been below average. As others have said, when combined with his already poor defense and lack of speed he turns into a bad player overall.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

Now 65 ABs for Casey without an extra base hit. Three more errors (or awful plays) yesterday. McGehee really needs a few days to focus and chill

[Ennder]

To give an example. Carl Crawford had a .520 OPS through 44 games. Since then he has a 1.153 OPS in the past 12 games not including his absolutely huge day today. Baseball is so darn streaky that you just can't obsess over 1/3 of a season much less 4 or 5 bad weeks. Pujols is another example, everyone was whining about how he was having a horrible year and he has a good 5 day stretch and suddenly he is right on pace for his normal year. Baseball is way too streaky to be crying about what a player does in a month.

 

It wouldn't be a complete shock if McGehee just stunk all year, I'm not saying he is above question or anything. It also wouldn't surprise me if 7 days from now he was on pace for his career numbers, all it takes is one one hot week to offset 2 months of struggling. Baseball is the last game you want to obsess about a few bad months.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

Pujols is batting 50 points below his career average, his OBP is 70 points below his career average, and slugging is 140 points below his career average. He is no where near back to a normal pace. He's hit a few home runs during his "hot streak", but that doesn't make up for his poor start.

 

Casey's problem is that he bringing nothing to this team right now:

 

1) his bat stinks

2) his defense stinks

3) his base running stinks

 

I have no problem saying that is is unquestionably the worst hitter in our lineup right now. If we are serious about contending, we need better production from 3B. His errors/poor defense have nearly cost us multiple games in the past week. And that is coming on top of ZERO production on offense

[Paulus88]

I have no problem saying that is is unquestionably the worst hitter in our lineup right now.

Really, Betancourt's .260/.335/.595 is unquestionably better than .297/.346/.642

[FVBrewerFan]

I have no problem saying that is is unquestionably the worst hitter in our lineup right now.

Really, Betancourt's .260/.335/.595 is unquestionably better than .297/.346/.642

 

At least Betancourt is showing signs of being a little more productive. A game winning double the other day, slowly raising his OBP the past couple weeks, etc. Meanwhile, McGehee has started slow and had steadily gone downhill from there.

 

Look, we all know a player can't be defined by two months. I don't think anyone is saying that. Nobody is suggesting you DFA him and move on. The question IMHO is how long do you sit him, and would it make sense to send him down to Nashville for "x" number of games. Then, whenever he DOES return to the lineep, what spot do you put him at. This isn't (or shouldn't be) a debate over whether we like/ don't like him, or if he is horrible/ just having a couple bad months. None of that really answers the question of how to handle him RIGHT NOW.

[gregmag]

This seems like the right time to start this discussion, but not to finish it.

 

I've been a McGehee skeptic from the beginning. He absolutely deserves credit for what he has managed to do, but even at his best he hasn't been a world-beater, and his record screams "likely decline." I think giving him more time to right the ship makes sense, because he has a moderate record of success and because nobody else in the system looks like a better bet right now.

 

Green is coming on. He's looking like the guy he was before the injury, which is a pretty useful player. I agree with the folks who have said he would benefit from some more ABs at AAA. He's going to come down from his hot streak, and I'd rather see him work through that at Nashville than here.

 

If nothing has changed by the all-star break -- if McGehee hasn't improved on either side of the ball and if Green is still playing well -- then I think a platoon starts to make a lot of sense. This is going to be a tough pennant race, and we'll need to press every advantage we have.

[Funketown]

At least Betancourt is showing signs of being a little more productive. A game winning double the other day, slowly raising his OBP the past couple weeks, etc. Meanwhile, McGehee has started slow and had steadily gone downhill from there.

What signs is he showing? Even if his OBP is rising, it's still only .260. There's no way you can slice it to say Betancourt should be more productive than McGehee going forward; McGehee has struggled, but Betancourt has been abominably bad at the plate.

[monty57]

We kind of have a logjam of "meh" players on the left side of the field, but there are several reasons I could see Green being called up:

 

-When Wheeler's back (? anyone know when), we will have two decent prospects (at least for our system) at 3B in Nashville, without a real SS prospect. It could be that we will send Wilson down to play SS everyday as AAA insurance, and bring Green up as the backup MLB 3B, letting Wheeler play 3B everyday in AAA, with Counsell as the backup MLB SS/2B.

 

-If Counsell continues to stink (currently at .197 avg / .303 OBP / .212 SLG / .515 OPS), he could be let go, and this is possibly the reason Wilson was signed. The fact that Counsell's a folk hero and is guaranteed money makes me think he'll be here all season, but really, a .212 SLG?? I would have to think Green could outperform what Counsell's done this season, and if Wilson is the backup SS, we could use an upgrade for backup 3B.

 

-As has already been outlined several times here, McGehee's underperformance (currently .238 avg / .297 OBP / .346 SLG / .643 OPS) could lead to Green being brought up to give Casey some time off. I doubt Casey goes to AAA, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

 

I certainly don't know what the best remedy is for McGehee, and I hope he is able to turn things around. That said, whatever the situation with McGehee, I would certainly prefer having Green on the MLB roster over one of Wilson or Counsell.

[topper09er]

I have no problem saying that is is unquestionably the worst hitter in our lineup right now.

McGehee last 28 days: 95 PA .216/.253/.307 5/13 BB/SO 2 HR

Yuniesky last 28 days: 80 PA .237/.263/.355 3/9 BB/SO 2 HR

 

I think it is pretty fair to say right now McGehee is the worst hitter in the lineup. He certainly should not be hitting #5. However, it appears other teams are oblivious to this and continue to pitch to Fielder unless there is a runner of 2nd with first open. If I were the Marlins I would IBB Fielder in any situation with 2 outs, except for bases loaded.