Impressions of Roenicke so far (part 1)

[danzig6767]

What was it, 6 AB? Let's not get crazy.

With 2 HR in those 6 AB. He used the pen last night like it was a playoff game with a 5 run lead. Even with that small sample, why not show that same urgency in a 1 run game tonight?

I'd blame Melvin more for not having a lefty that Roenicke could have put in after Loe hit Phillips. For all the talk of how well Votto has hit lefties this year over 47 at bats, none of his homers have come vs a lefty.

 

I have a hard time believing that Dillard serves a better role in the pen than a lefty would.

[treego]

Ron Roenicke, to me, is a Ned Yost when it comes to game-management ... just plain dumb all too often. I think Macha was very dry and perhaps not very motivational/inspiring with the players but at least made sound decisions when it came to game decisions, generally, compared to both Yost and Roenicke. Roenicke even sounds like Yost with his references to "Wolfie," "Braunie," "Yunie," "Gomie?," etc. For the 6/1/11 8th and 9th inning game management by Roenicke, I offer the following:

Loe cannot pitch to Votto! Good gravy!

Betancourt needs a pinch-hitter! McGehee has power and is a better
hitter by far.

Counsell needs a pinch-hitter (absolutely no power) --- where's Kotsay
with 2 outs in the 9th?

Why do I feel like Ned Yost is managing this team again? Ugghhh!

Play the percentages like Dusty Baker did tonight! Phooey on player's
feelings or egos! Play the best guy for the situation at hand!

You need lefties with some semblance of power against Cordero, especially
with 2 outs and nobody on in a 1-run game. Did the manager not know
that Votto annihilates Loe? I told my sons that this non-move by Roenicke
was "stupid" right away when the stats flashed on the screen. Listen, Loe
is a low-ball pitcher. Votto is a great hitter to begin with who happens to
be left-handed (lefties are notorious for being low-ball hitters, to boot) and
who has awesome stats against Loe. Good grief! How can Roenicke and
the coaching staff look themselves in the mirror when this is outrageously
foolish coaching?

Doug Melvin? No lefty in the bullpen? Come on, guys! Gotta' get smarter.

[PrinceEatMeat]

My responses to all of those things:

 

We had no lefty to pitch to Votto, and even if we did Votto kills lefties anyway.

 

McGehee doesn't have much more power than Betancourt, and has been just as bad as him lately. Betancourt actually had a 2 hit game going.

 

Kotsay has no power either, so pinch-hitting him for Counsell wouldn't matter. Pinch-hitting McGehee for him would've made more sense.

 

I do agree that Ron is feeling like Ned at times.

 

Baker is clearly a superior manager, but Ron is in his first year give him time.

 

We definitely need a power-hitting lefty on the bench, but that's on Doug. Not really another option besides Loe there. He has been great lately, but he hung a sinker. It happens.

 

Again, lefty in the pen wouldn't matter there. Votto hits lefties better than he hits righties. Plus, all our lefties are hurt. Braddock will be back.

[Marc Newfield of Dreams]

PrinceEatMeat wrote:

We definitely need a power-hitting lefty on the bench, but that's on Doug. Not really another option besides Loe there. He has been great lately, but he hung a sinker. It happens.

Hawkins?

[logan82]

Loe is terrible against lefties to the tune of something like .200 points of OPS worse than against righties. Votto doesn't kill lefties. He hits them well but not as well as he hits RHP. The main thing a LHP does is severely limits his power. Votto is still a very good hitter against LHP but nowhere near as good as against RHP. A LHP would have greatly decreased the chances of the only possible outcome that we couldn't have happen, a HR. We don't have a LOOGY. That's on Melvin. Of course given his post game comments he may have still stuck with Loe even if we had a LOOGY.

[danzig6767]

Again, lefty in the pen wouldn't matter there. Votto hits lefties better than he hits righties. Plus, all our lefties are hurt. Braddock will be back.

No he doesn't, even if you consider 47 at bats this year to be more important than what Votto has done over a much larger sample. A full season last year and career splits.

 

2010-- vs

 

RH-- .347/.442/.673/1.115 OPS

LH-- .283/.393/.470/.863 OPS

 

Career

 

RH-- .998 OPS

LH-- .888 OPS

 

Plus, for as great as he's hit this year vs lefties in those 47 at bats, only six hits were extra bases hits and none of them home runs. All 7 of his home runs this season have been off a righthander.

[bullox]

Either way, Votto is an MVP caliber player. No matter what you do, he can get a hit. A non-move might make more sense than trying to go with a loogy all things considered.

[Invader3K]

Either way, Votto is an MVP caliber player. No matter what you do, he can get a hit. A non-move might make more sense than trying to go with a loogy all things considered.

That's kind of how I feel.

I think it's a bit silly to nit pick the manager after every loss (even if it's a tough one like last night).

 

[Flood Pants]

Either way, Votto is an MVP caliber player. No matter what you do, he can get a hit. A non-move might make more sense than trying to go with a loogy all things considered.

My concern with the situation had nothing to do with righty/lefty match ups. RR continually counts on Loe to be his lights-out guy in the bullpen, and he's just not that kind guy. He's solid, but why not go to Hawkins, who really has been lights out, in that situation?

[davemakovec]

RRR probably could have relied on his own damn eyes and the fact that he saw Votto hit a Loe pitch about six miles on opening day should have clued him in that this was a bad idea.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I realize 7 AB's is the absolute epitome of 'small samples', but Votto now has an OPS over 2.000 against Loe.

 

I guess I just want to echo other's sentiments that running Loe out every night in the 8th inning just doesn't make sense. You were facing the best hitters in the Reds lineup (Phillips, Votto, Bruce), why would you NOT want your best reliever out there in that situation?

 

People complained about Macha's lack of personality and yadda yadda yadda. I remember more than a handful of occasions last year when he brought Axford in the 8th inning when the situation warranted it. I think (and I could be wrong here, this is by recollection) Axford had something like 7 saves where he recorded 4 or more outs.

 

I never wanted Macha fired, and I'm already wishing we had him back.

 

EDIT: I went and looked at the game logs. Axford had 9 saves in which he pitched more than 1 inning, and a handful of other appearances in which he did multi-inning work as well.

[endaround]

My responses to all of those things:

 

We had no lefty to pitch to Votto, and even if we did Votto kills lefties anyway.

 

McGehee doesn't have much more power than Betancourt, and has been just as bad as him lately. Betancourt actually had a 2 hit game going.

 

Kotsay has no power either, so pinch-hitting him for Counsell wouldn't matter. Pinch-hitting McGehee for him would've made more sense.

 

I do agree that Ron is feeling like Ned at times.

 

Baker is clearly a superior manager, but Ron is in his first year give him time.

 

We definitely need a power-hitting lefty on the bench, but that's on Doug. Not really another option besides Loe there. He has been great lately, but he hung a sinker. It happens.

 

Again, lefty in the pen wouldn't matter there. Votto hits lefties better than he hits righties. Plus, all our lefties are hurt. Braddock will be back.

Yes all three left handed relievers are currently injured. However Loe is terrible against left handers and Axford can go more than 1 inning.

McGehee has tons more power than Betancourt, McGehee's career ISO is 170. Betancourt is 120. If you think this season is really important, Betancourt is one of the worst hitters in the league so far. Both Betancourt and Counsell are bad hitters, neither McGehee or Kotsay are world beaters but they are better hitters. Heck Carlos Gomez is a better hitter.

Roenicke is the one who got the bench he wanted.

 

[theavrock]

Loe never should have faced Votto. No one other than Ax should have faced him. That is the perfect situation where you use your shut down reliever.

 

RRR like a lot of managers gets into the mindset of having certain guys pitch certain innings which doesn't make any sense. You need to use your best relievers in the most critical situations. The game hinged on that moment and he should have brought in Ax.

 

Ax should have been up in the pen from pitch 1 of the 8th inning. You know that the heart of the order and Votto are coming up. Votto has destroyed Loe (in a very small sample). Ax would very likely have pitched the 9th anyways so its not like you're getting him up when he isn't needed.

[joepepsi]

I think it's clear the bullpen is not where it needs to be for a playoff caliber team. Have they held a one run lead all year?

 

Axford has only 5 game finishing appearances that were 3 up, 3 down, out of 20 overall. He and Loe are both fine pitchers, but neither are really strong in their "roles". Bolstering the bullpen may be more important than replacing Betancourt.

[rluzinski]

RR being asked last night about whether not having a lefty in the pen has hurt the Brewers:

 

"It hasn't hurt us in any other games. But again, when you're facing Votto, it better be a left you really like... I think his average is better against lefties that righties."

 

First, batting average is a terrible way to measure the performance expectation of a batter in general. When you consider the specific situation (2 out, runner on first, up by 1), batting average becomes SO not the point. You care about projected power. In his career, Votto's SLG is 110 points lower against lefties than righties. Second, he's referring to Votto's batting average against lefties over a two month period. 53 plate appearances. Sheesh.

[Ennder]

Either way, Votto is an MVP caliber player. No matter what you do, he can get a hit. A non-move might make more sense than trying to go with a loogy all things considered.

My concern with the situation had nothing to do with righty/lefty match ups. RR continually counts on Loe to be his lights-out guy in the bullpen, and he's just not that kind guy. He's solid, but why not go to Hawkins, who really has been lights out, in that situation?

We don't have a lights out option in the bullpen though. Hawkins is nowhere near a lights out bullpen option and the only reason his ERA isn't 4+ so far on the year is a lucky strand rate, he isn't fooling anyone out there with his 4 K per 9 IP. Axford might be our only above average bullpen arm to be honest. Saito's injury has really hurt as has the fact we lost all of our lefties. If we are in the hunt near the trade deadline I have to imagine we look for bullpen help.

[fondybrewfan]

How soon people forget how truly awful Yost & Macha were.

 

RR has some learning to do; but he has a long ways to go before he reaches Yost/Macha territory.

 

At this point I would say my biggest complaint is that he is a little to stubborn/hesitant to change. He likely believes that the best way for players to succeed is to have a very distinct role (Examples include Axford only in the 9th, Loe only in the 8th, not wanting to move Lucroy from the 8 spot because he was hitting well there). I think he has a little bit of the Yost Loyalty Complex in him as well. By all accounts the players love him and he does have the team playing well right now.

 

He has been hamstrung by an awful bench with no power at all and inconsistencies at the back end of the bullpen. No one in the bullpen has just flat out dominated the whole year, no one in the bullpen is really dominant against left handed hitters, and when he has had to choose from Almonte, Boggs, Kotsay, Counsell, Nieves, and Rivera for late inning pinch hits he is screwed no matter what he does.

[DHonks]

fondy, I still contend Yost was far better than most here give him credit for. I think that tactically, the ones that have been awful have been Macha and Lopes. Yost was adequate tactically, but he seemed to be a great leader. Garner was a lot like Yost, only a bit less fiery with the media and perhaps a bit more sound in his game decisions. At this point, I have not found any serious flaws the RR. I don't like his overuse of Loe. I don't like that he seems to limit relievers to 1 inning (Yost was the only recent one we had that really let guys go more than an inning). RR is starting to pinch hit and double-switch more. I think the biggest gripes people have of RR so far are that he continues to play Betancourt and Gomez, yet those are not his fault. Until getting Morgan back, we have had no options. As for Shortstop, I'd like to see Counsell start 1-2 times per week for his OBP ability, but the difference is marginal in terms of overall performance. People also complain that Gomez hits second...unfortunately, if you put Gomez, Betancourt, and the pitcher together, you've just given the other team some easy innings.

[joepepsi]

He has been hamstrung by an awful bench with no power at all and inconsistencies at the back end of the bullpen. No one in the bullpen has just flat out dominated the whole year, no one in the bullpen is really dominant against left handed hitters, and when he has had to choose from Almonte, Boggs, Kotsay, Counsell, Nieves, and Rivera for late inning pinch hits he is screwed no matter what he does.

But isn't he at least partly, if not completely responsible, for the make up of this awful bench? Certainly he had a lot of say as to who came north for Opening Day.

 

Also, isn't bullpen management the main aspect of the game that managers control. Admittedly you can't make silk out of a sow's ear, but there is talent in this bullpen; it's up to the manager to figure out it's best utilization.

 

RRR may be a better manager than Yost and Macha. I'm reserving judgement for now. One thing for sure, he's starting the season with much better starting pitching than his predecessors ever had. A good rotation has a way of making a manager look smart; even though that aspect of the team has almost nothing to do with him.

[rluzinski]

"How soon people forget how truly awful Yost & Macha were."

I didn't think Macha was that bad compared to the average manager. I think the average manager is pretty poor, though.

[Tbadder]

If Ron learned his lesson last night I'm okay (don't let Loe pitch to Votto). If he didn't, which I'm assuming he didn't, I think we'll see the same thing, and that will be frustrating. Its not losing the game that hurts, but being out coached by Dusty Baker that's the real insult.

[adambr2]

With as much as he trusts Kotsay, it feels like Roenicke is stuck in 2003.

 

Honestly, between his use of the bullpen and complete lack of attention to the situation, continuing to bat Gomez 2nd after repeated failures, his overly aggressive style costing numerous outs on the basepaths, and ridiculous amount of trust in aging veterans (which I think has probably contributed a great deal to the terrible bench we have right now), I'm not sure he has a clue how to run a baseball team.

[fondybrewfan]

I don't think the aggressive baserunning has really hurt the Brewers all that much. I like that they have taken extra bases more often. I don't think you can fault RR for several of his players being morons on the bases. RR teaches taking an extra base if you can; not running with your eyes closed. Without knowing the exact percentage I have to believe we have a pretty low Caught Stealing rate.

 

RR is definitely past the point of Gomez batting 2nd (maybe on rare occasions when neither Hart or Morgan is playing he still might hit 2nd) When he was batting Gomez 2nd Morgan was hurt and Hart was still coming back. Now that both are healthy and producing Gomez has batted later in the order. I am not sure what the complaint there is anymore.

 

You have a point on the aging veterans thing; but its not like he has much of a choice. Yeah I am sure he has input about who broke camp and what the roster moves should be; buts its not like AAA is stocked with young talent that would thrive in a reserve role anyways. Sure you could bring up Gamel or Katin but what would be the point of bringing them up to rot on the bench and maybe get 5 AB's a week? It should be up to Melving to make a trade to get someone competent on the bench.

[tstads20]

I really haven't had much of a problem with Roenicke so far. Uses Loe a little more than I'd like, but beyond that, seems to be a good mind on the game.

 

Can't help but feel like he's still getting the hang of everything though, not that I or anyone else here is smarter than him when it comes to decision making, but there are some things that he does which makes me think he doesn't totally know his team yet.

 

Seems to have gotten better as the year has gone on though, think he needs till August or September before we can make any real assessment of him.

[adambr2]

Fondy, to be honest, I would indeed bring Gamel up, even if it means very limited AB's, just to have his bat on the bench.

 

Yeah, it sucks that he'd be spending most of his time on the bench rather than playing, but it's not like Gamel is really a blue chip prospect anymore that needs AAA development. He's almost 26 and has had 3 years in AAA. I don't think there's much left for him to do there. If this were a rebuilding year or we were not in contention, by all means keep him down. But with this being a "go for it" year, considering the state of our reserves, I'd like to see his bat on the bench right now.