Impressions of Roenicke so far (part 1)

[YoungGeezy]

I love RR so far, he has the team excited and having fun and they are much more fun to watch. Sure I get mad a lot because of the bad base running but at least we are aggressive, stealing, playing small ball, moving guys over and etc. something we have not been able to see for awhile because Macha hated aggressive baseball, stealing, moving guys over, and small ball.

[NievesNoNO]

I'll give him a B-. Honestly, I don't think his lineup and bullpen management is much different than most in the league. That said, I don't like his man love for Kotsay or Gomez in the two hole. I'm probably higher on his bullpen management than most and actually believe some small ball is a good thing. I do think he has the players borderline reckless on the base paths, however he's consistently reckless so oddly enough that makes me okay with it.

 

To me in game strategy is secondary to how hard the players will play for you. As long as you have the players in your corner and playing hard then I think you have 3/4 of the job covered. We'll see how the season plays out.

[Thurston Fluff]

There's no sample size with managers.

 

So according to you it's possible to tell if a manager is good or bad based on one game?

 

Decisions are very clear cut and purely mental. He has made bad decisions.

 

In the vacuum of one baseball game yes. Over the coarse of a season I am not as willing to judge. Based on how one feels about the toll of playing daily effects a player's ability to play at a high level later, or other such nuances, maybe not so clear cut.

When and how much someone plays now is often based on how much the manager plans on using them later. It is common to use bench players often early. It keeps the regulars fresh for the long haul and bench players sharp. It is also reasonable to expect managers to use players they don't know well in ways that allow them to get to know their real capabilities vs what they heard or read in reports or stat books. Once they see what said players can do they adjust accordingly. Those are all things that take time. Some things we can start to get a glimpse of. Like for instance moving Gomez down in the batting order or pinch hitting for Nieves late in games. Other things take more time. Like playing kotsay less and Hart more or how the Gomez, Morgan thing plays out.

 

To me in game strategy is secondary to how hard the players will play

for you. As long as you have the players in your corner and playing

hard then I think you have 3/4 of the job covered. We'll see how the

season plays out.

 

 

That would be another thing I didn't mention that takes time to see. I couldn't agree more about how hard players play for you being primary over in game stuff.

[TheCrew07]

As I said in the game thread today, I really want to like RR.

 

He does things that are puzzling with the line-up, like Gomez in the 2 hole, Kotsay in CF, Lucroy batting 8th, but other than that he does everything wrong that every manager does wrong... defined bullpen roles and all that pitching garbage. I'm not sure it's fair to blame stupid base running on RR, Gomez and Braun have been making outs on the bases for their entire careers. Hart used to be a pretty heads up baseball player so I'm not sure what to make his gaffes out there, maybe he's lost a step and doesn't realize it.

 

As all managers are pretty much the same, I prefer the Brewers have someone who relates well to young players and works hard to teach them the game and improve their skills. Young players need room to fail and then grow, it's unreasonable to expect consistent production out of them. Our life line as an organization is going to have to be to draft and develop players, so we need management in place that will nourish that talent as it arrives.

 

Macha turned failure into a punishment, failure should be about learning to adapt and overcome, not about looking over your shoulder to be replaced from the game. If Escobar went 0-10 he was sat on the bench, now instead of thinking about how to beat the pitcher, he's pressing to get a hit so he can keep playing... it's an entirely different mindset. Once a player adopts that attitude, it's extremely difficult to overcome it, regardless of age or level. I believe the mind is absolutely key to success in sports, more so than physical skill. I often wonder what would have happened to Hardy who seemed a tad fragile mentally if Yost had treated him like Mach treated Escobar... Attitude is everything... through personal experience, reading, and listening to numerous presentations i believe it to be true. That is why the NFL has invested so much money trying to develop tests that will help bear out the guys who will keep working vs the players that will take the money and run.

 

With that theory in mind, I want someone as a manager who works well with young talent, will learn from his mistakes, and adapt over time. I'm not sure I can make any definitive statements about him today, but he appears to handle the players well which is a plus. Once Lucroy moves up to the 6 hole so our best hitters are getting the most opportunities in the game, and if Kotsay never sees CF again then I'll be pretty pleased. I loved the squeeze call tonight, it was very creative, I would have never thought Lucroy would bunt, much less execute a near perfect bunt, and I've followed him religiously since he was drafted.

 

I'm much more concerned with the GM than I am the manager, I think in MLB the managers have minimal impact compared to the other team sports. In baseball their job is more about managing personalities than it is about managing the pace, flow, and style of the game. The pitchers dictate all of that themselves, the rest is pretty easy to understand... if the ball comes your way you catch it and throw it to the appropriate base. At the plate... see ball hit ball.

[dadofandrew]

I'm sorry, I don't do impressions.

 

Thanks, I'll be here all week, and don't forget to tip your wait staff.

[TooLiveBrew]

Hah. I just came to this thread to post that the title has me hoping for some YouTube video submissions by BF.netters.

 

Oof.

[rluzinski]

I love RR so far, he has the team excited and having fun and they are much more fun to watch. Sure I get mad a lot because of the bad base running but at least we are aggressive, stealing, playing small ball, moving guys over and etc. something we have not been able to see for awhile because Macha hated aggressive baseball, stealing, moving guys over, and small ball.

I agree that they have been more exciting. Unfortunately, I don't think more exciting equals more wins. RR takes much more risk than the possible reward justifies, IMO.

If I have to adjust the curve to make the current average MLB manager be a C, RR is a D. I think the the average MLB manager kinda sucks though, so there you have it!

 

[gregmag]

I'm about as optimistic about RR as I could reasonably expect to be. I largely agree with TheCrew07, in that I suspect a manager is most important in how he handles and relates to players -- unless he's making obvious bonehead moves like killing his pitchers or sac bunting early in the game, which I don't see RR doing. RR seems to relate well to his players, especially the young guys. Of course, that stuff is impossible to measure and difficult to assess, which is why judging managers is so difficult.

 

RR is a rookie manager who's getting to know his players, and he acts like it. If he's still batting Gomez second in two months I'll be mystified, but in fairness, Hart was hurt for a while, Morgan was hurt, and it isn't like the roster is crawling with high OBP guys. RR has given Gomez a more-than-fair shot, and Gomez has presumably played himself into a platoon. I would have been less merciful if I had a fantasy team, but I can't really fault RR for handling flesh-and-blood players that way. Besides, everybody seems to need to see Gomez stink live before they'll believe he's that bad. RR also seems to be running primarily with players who actually can run (Gomez, Braun, Weeks), which I'm glad to see given his rep as a speed-at-all-costs guy.

 

For whatever it may be worth, I also like how he seems to have his own mind. I'm thinking of how he said last week that he'd rather have a good righty than a mediocre lefty in the pen and that he doesn't really put much stock in "how we have to do over the next [x] games." He seems . . . not stupid, for sure, and not excessively steeped in managerial cliches.

[TooLiveBrew]

I suspect a manager is most important in how he handles and relates to players -- unless he's making obvious bonehead moves like killing his pitchers or sac bunting early in the game, which I don't see RR doing.

 

He's had guys sac bunting pretty often in the early innings. Nyjer Morgan was asked to sac bunt in the first inning just today. He is what he is, a classic small-ball manager.

[logan82]

unless he's making obvious bonehead moves like killing his pitchers or sac bunting early in the game, which I don't see RR doing.

 

He is having or at the very least letting players sac bunt early in games. Often the second hitter in the game. Kotsay in CF is a pretty obvious bonehead move in my opinion.

[danzig6767]

I suspect a manager is most important in how he handles and relates to players -- unless he's making obvious bonehead moves like killing his pitchers or sac bunting early in the game, which I don't see RR doing.

 

He's had guys sac bunting pretty often in the early innings. Nyjer Morgan was asked to sac bunt in the first inning just today. He is what he is, a classic small-ball manager.

In defense of Roeincke there, guys like Morgan and Gomez have a decent chance at any time to turn a sac bunt into a hit given their speed, especially Morgan since he seems to be a pretty skilled bunter.

 

When pretty much anyone else in the lineup puts a bunt down, it's only to advance the runner a base. If Morgan gets a quality bunt down there, he can not only move Weeks to second, he can end up with a hit.

 

I don't really ever watch American League games, so i was expecting mass amounts of bunting from the way some of you guys here talk about the Angels. So far this year though, i haven't seen any excessive amounts of bunting and i don't count Morgan/Gomez the same as other players because of their fabulous speed. Strikes me as a very reasonable decision and with Gomez having such terrible on base skills, a bunt by him at least advances the runner and as i said before, if he gets the bunt in a good spot, it's gravy with a hit.

[logan82]

I suspect a manager is most important in how he handles and relates to players -- unless he's making obvious bonehead moves like killing his pitchers or sac bunting early in the game, which I don't see RR doing.

 

He's had guys sac bunting pretty often in the early innings. Nyjer Morgan was asked to sac bunt in the first inning just today. He is what he is, a classic small-ball manager.

In defense of Roeincke there, guys like Morgan and Gomez have a decent chance at any time to turn a sac bunt into a hit given their speed, especially Morgan since he seems to be a pretty skilled bunter.

 

When pretty much anyone else in the lineup puts a bunt down, it's only to advance the runner a base. If Morgan gets a quality bunt down there, he can not only move Weeks to second, he can end up with a hit.

 

I don't really ever watch American League games, so i was expecting mass amounts of bunting from the way some of you guys here talk about the Angels. So far this year though, i haven't seen any excessive amounts of bunting and i don't count Morgan/Gomez the same as other players because of their fabulous speed. Strikes me as a very reasonable decision and with Gomez having such terrible on base skills, a bunt by him at least advances the runner and as i said before, if he gets the bunt in a good spot, it's gravy with a hit.

Hart was sac bunting in the first inning in one of his first games back.

[Vgmastr]

I suspect a manager is most important in how he handles and relates to players -- unless he's making obvious bonehead moves like killing his pitchers or sac bunting early in the game, which I don't see RR doing.

 

He's had guys sac bunting pretty often in the early innings. Nyjer Morgan was asked to sac bunt in the first inning just today. He is what he is, a classic small-ball manager.

In defense of Roeincke there, guys like Morgan and Gomez have a decent chance at any time to turn a sac bunt into a hit given their speed, especially Morgan since he seems to be a pretty skilled bunter.

 

When pretty much anyone else in the lineup puts a bunt down, it's only to advance the runner a base. If Morgan gets a quality bunt down there, he can not only move Weeks to second, he can end up with a hit.

 

I don't really ever watch American League games, so i was expecting mass amounts of bunting from the way some of you guys here talk about the Angels. So far this year though, i haven't seen any excessive amounts of bunting and i don't count Morgan/Gomez the same as other players because of their fabulous speed. Strikes me as a very reasonable decision and with Gomez having such terrible on base skills, a bunt by him at least advances the runner and as i said before, if he gets the bunt in a good spot, it's gravy with a hit.

Hart was sac bunting in the first inning in one of his first games back.

To be fair, that was the game after the 1-0 loss at San Diego where the offense looked pathetic. Weeks led off with a double, and the Hart sac bunt was a "let's finally get a run, the lead, and some momentum." Would I have done the same thing? No, but with the offense looking as lifeless as it was at the time, I can see some justification behind it.

[logan82]

Vgmastr wrote:

To be fair, that was the game after the 1-0 loss at San Diego where the offense looked pathetic. Weeks led off with a double, and the Hart sac bunt was a "let's finally get a run, the lead, and some momentum." Would I have done the same thing? No, but with the offense looking as lifeless as it was at the time, I can see some justification behind it.

I don't. Offenses go into slumps. Players will eventually pull out of them. No reason to take the bat out of the hands of a good hitter. Hopefully at some point DPR will figure things out and the string of excuses will stop.

[Blancofan1]

"Hopefully at some point DPR will figure things out and the string of excuses will stop."

If only we could go on a tear, like winning 8 of 9 home games or 13 of 15 games overall--then maybe we could give Roenicke some credit. Oh wait, it's all his fault when we lose, but if we win it's because our players overcome all of the poor decision making and managing.

Hopefully at some point we, as a fanbase, will figure out that every manager will make decisions that fans don't agree with. Then again he is the manager of an MLB team and we aren't so maybe there is something that he knows that we don't.

Questioning moves and decisions is one thing, but the overall DPR thing is taking things way off the deep end. The team is 5 games over .500 and it's Memorial Day. We haven't been eliminated from the Playoffs, none of the players seem to have quit on Roenicke and we are finishing off a strong three weeks of games. The sky isn't falling and Roenicke is trying to pull it down on our heads.

[RockCoCougars]

If these guys win tonight, they are on a 90 win pace despite the start to the season and the seven game losing streak (not to mention the loss of Greinke and Hart for significant stretches). What I don't understand is that a lot of people down on Roenecke were the same ones who were projecting the team from 81-86 wins or saying they are not 'as good' as the fans think. What gives? I have no doubt that under Macha, that clubhouse would have imploded during the losing streak, if not during the four game streak to start the season.

[derflotr]

He's basically operated completely as advertised. He's dealt with constant roster turnover and instability and the team is doing a lot of winning. I'm not complaining.

[Menace II Sobriety]

Just wanted to point out that one of the most hated position players on this team would be a type A free agent at this moment http://www.mlbtraderumors...nkings-update.html Actually all 4 outfielders are type A, for people to be this negative about a guy that is a type A is surprising. I realize Gomez is in the last spot but even a type B in years past people would be ecstatic.

 

Many people on here call RR a small ball manager while also stating that he is too aggressive on the base paths. That is an oxymoron you cannot have it both ways. He is not a station to station manager therefore it is not small ball. During parts of this season RR was basically polishing a turd w/ all of the injuries, Gomez shouldn't be batting second so they use the skills that he has to advance the runners and help the team. If you have a hitter out of place due to injuries at least make the most out of it. We don't even know if the bunts were called or the players took it upon themselves. On top of that we don't know if the signals were bunt for a hit or sac bunt.

 

Again all 4 outfielders are currently type A's, so some of this bickering is a little over exaggerated.

[adambr2]

You'll have to edit that link to exclude the final period for it to work.

 

How does it go straight from Type A comp to no comp on the outfielders? Something about that doesn't seem right. Where's the type B NL outfielders?

[Menace II Sobriety]

I don't know how it works but this guy has been pretty reliable for a few years now. My guess is that free agents are based on a certain percentage of players that will be free agents each year and they maxed out on type A's. Maybe this is something that people could look into further. Even if he was a type B people would still be happy getting anything for Gomez.

[logan82]

Just wanted to point out that one of the most hated position players on this team would be a type A free agent at this moment

 

Kotsay or Betancourt are type A's? Those really are the only to players I see much dislike for. Even the dislike for Kotsay has more to do with the manager's usage of him. I don't think anybody really dislikes Gomez. They just dislike him batting #2. The complaints about Gomez pretty much disappear when he hits in the lower part of the order.

[TheCrew07]

There has to be a mistake, there's no way that many players are Type A, and there is no way Gomez is a type A based on his defensive value alone.

 

edit. What do FA rankings have to do with RR anyway?

[adambr2]

Yeah, something is wrong with that, I think. Bill Hall is a Type A? Henry Blanco is a Type A?

 

Every single one of our regular starters, including McGehee and Betancourt, are listed as Type A's. Gotta be a mistake.

[logan82]

I think it takes 2 years into account so McGehee may not be a big stretch. 2B, 3B and SS all get lumped together. Kind of gives 3B a big boost if they are halfway decent on offense.

[NievesNoNO]

Blancofan1[/b]]"Hopefully at some point DPR will figure things out and the string of excuses will stop."

If only we could go on a tear, like winning 8 of 9 home games or 13 of 15 games overall--then maybe we could give Roenicke some credit. Oh wait, it's all his fault when we lose, but if we win it's because our players overcome all of the poor decision making and managing.

Hopefully at some point we, as a fanbase, will figure out that every manager will make decisions that fans don't agree with. Then again he is the manager of an MLB team and we aren't so maybe there is something that he knows that we don't.

Questioning moves and decisions is one thing, but the overall DPR thing is taking things way off the deep end. The team is 5 games over .500 and it's Memorial Day. We haven't been eliminated from the Playoffs, none of the players seem to have quit on Roenicke and we are finishing off a strong three weeks of games. The sky isn't falling and Roenicke is trying to pull it down on our heads.

Couldn't' have said it better myself. You will always have some that believe the game is played in a vacuum and feel small ball strategies can't work because some stat doesn't justify it. Of course, if somebody has a conflicting opinion on something it must be fact. I can't say that I always agree with RR decisions and I do believe the team is overly aggressive on the bases at times, but to his credit he hasn't backed off his philosophy. Honestly though, probably 99% of hard core fans dislike the manager of their team at some point. It kind of comes with the territory I guess. You're hired to fired as they say.