Impressions of Roenicke so far (part 1)

[1992casey]

Then by May he realized that he really shouldn't play small ball with the team and that was that.

 

Yeah, like the time he decided that since Brady Clark was leading off, Brady should steal bases. Thankfully, that ended sooner than later.

[brettac1]

I think just the general cluelessness is what was referring to re: Yost.

[KCBrewerfan34]

RR = OUTSTANDING

 

1 blunder was batting Kotsay before Kottaras but for the most part has been really good and most importantly the players like him. Back off of RR. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[logan82]

That is a huge part of the problem. Winning somehow gets equated with a manager managing well. That just isn't the case.

[Oxy]

Barring anything ridiculous (Kotsay regularly playing in CF is as close as it comes, but I don't consider 5 games a year to be regular), I am very comfortable giving RRR credit for winning. As others have stated, the most important part of managing a baseball team is managing the players and their personalities in order to get them to play their best ball, and the best way to measure that is if the ballclub is winning. In game strategy and bullpen management both have smaller roles to play, but there are certain instances when strictly playing the percentages will have a much larger negative effect on the clubhouse than the positive effect it would have on the field.

[adambr2]

Strictly on baseball, game-related decisions, I would honestly say he's one of, if not the worst in baseball.

 

He makes absolutely puzzling lineup decisions. When another team would have DFA'ed the player by now or at least sent him to the minors, he had yet to even remove him from the 5-hole until halfway through the season. He is convinced that players with negative WAR make up a solid bench and give him DH coverage from within. He overworks his worst relievers and underworks his best ones. He argues that a good hitting #8 hitter is too valuable in the #8 hole to move anywhere else. He gives up more outs on the basepaths than almost any team in baseball with his reckless style. He relentlessly gives up outs in front of Braun and Fielder in an effort to move a runner up a base. If a squeeze works once, he continues to use it in every possible situation until it screws him over. He puts on some good, acceptable shifts, then negates them with nonsensial shifts. He took till mid-June to cut ties with by far the worst backup catcher in baseball. He doesn't understand a ROOGY and treats all lefties like they are a LOOGY. He actually dabbled with the idea of Kotsay platooning in the outfield.

 

I don't need to go on, do I? These are all things that our Brewers manager has actually done this year. All right, vent over.

[adambr2]

Barring anything ridiculous (Kotsay regularly playing in CF is as close as it comes, but I don't consider 5 games a year to be regular), I am very comfortable giving RRR credit for winning. As others have stated, the most important part of managing a baseball team is managing the players and their personalities in order to get them to play their best ball, and the best way to measure that is if the ballclub is winning. In game strategy and bullpen management both have smaller roles to play, but there are certain instances when strictly playing the percentages will have a much larger negative effect on the clubhouse than the positive effect it would have on the field.

 

I don't understand this....are we suggesting that Kotsay playing less, McGehee not batting #5 for half the season, and Loe being used in more of a ROOGY role rather than a setup man are going to have a large negative effect on the clubhouse?

 

That's an awfully tough sell for me. I'd be happy to hear of just one legitimate questionable decision that RR made this year that would have had too large of a clubhouse impact to justify making the decision.

[Oxy]

Barring anything ridiculous (Kotsay regularly playing in CF is as close as it comes, but I don't consider 5 games a year to be regular), I am very comfortable giving RRR credit for winning. As others have stated, the most important part of managing a baseball team is managing the players and their personalities in order to get them to play their best ball, and the best way to measure that is if the ballclub is winning. In game strategy and bullpen management both have smaller roles to play, but there are certain instances when strictly playing the percentages will have a much larger negative effect on the clubhouse than the positive effect it would have on the field.

 

I don't understand this....are we suggesting that Kotsay playing less, McGehee not batting #5 for half the season, and Loe being used in more of a ROOGY role rather than a setup man are going to have a large negative effect on the clubhouse?

 

That's an awfully tough sell for me. I'd be happy to hear of just one legitimate questionable decision that RR made this year that would have had too large of a clubhouse impact to justify making the decision.

Yes, actually. Kotsay really hasn't played much since Hart came back. McGehee in the 5 spot vs. the 6 or 7 spot makes pretty much no difference at all, especially considering the alternatives for the 5 spot. Loe may have been overused a couple of times, but not nearly to the extent that one would think by reading BF.net.

 

The biggest things that RR has done strategically to actually alter the outcomes of games positively or negatively have been his defensive shifts and aggressive baserunning. The baserunning perhaps cost them a few runs early, but has been much better of late and the shifts have worked out great. Almost everything else has been more of a roster issue than a management issue.

[logan82]

The biggest things that RR has done strategically to actually alter the outcomes of games positively or negatively have been his defensive shifts and aggressive baserunning. The baserunning perhaps cost them a few runs early, but has been much better of late and the shifts have worked out great. Almost everything else has been more of a roster issue than a management issue.

The small ball has cost us as well. As has putting Kotsay in CF.

 

DPR has some control over the roster as well. Right or wrong he gets to have a lot of input on the bench bats and probably the bullpen.

[Ayt]

FWIW, we are tied for the lead with the Angels for most outs made on the base paths (excluding pickoffs, CS, and force plays).

[brains and braun]

adambr2]Strictly on baseball, game-related decisions, I would honestly say he's one of, if not the worst in baseball.

 

He makes absolutely puzzling lineup decisions. When another team would have DFA'ed the player by now or at least sent him to the minors, he had yet to even remove him from the 5-hole until halfway through the season. He is convinced that players with negative WAR make up a solid bench and give him DH coverage from within. He overworks his worst relievers and underworks his best ones. He argues that a good hitting #8 hitter is too valuable in the #8 hole to move anywhere else. He gives up more outs on the basepaths than almost any team in baseball with his reckless style. He relentlessly gives up outs in front of Braun and Fielder in an effort to move a runner up a base. If a squeeze works once, he continues to use it in every possible situation until it screws him over. He puts on some good, acceptable shifts, then negates them with nonsensial shifts. He took till mid-June to cut ties with by far the worst backup catcher in baseball. He doesn't understand a ROOGY and treats all lefties like they are a LOOGY. He actually dabbled with the idea of Kotsay platooning in the outfield.

 

I don't need to go on, do I? These are all things that our Brewers manager has actually done this year. All right, vent over.

I agree with basically all of this. If RRR were at the helm of a worse Brewers' team, a lot more people would have the pitchforks out by now. Point out one good thing he does for every three dumb things, and I'd be impressed. And you only get to use "the players love him" once.

[The Truth]

I, personally, like Roenicke alot. But I think its been way too small of a sample to really know just how good of a manager he is.

 

I think alot of the complaints about Roenicke in this thread really should be directed at Doug Melvin. Roenicke's hands are tied somewhat by the talent he has to work with:

 

I mean, seriously, Kotsay vs Boggs vs Katin or whoever. Those are not exactly great choices.

 

Betancourt vs Josh Wilson? C'mon now. Nieves as a backup Catcher?

 

I realize that Roenicke had somewhat of a hand in signing off on some of this stuff but this Brewers roster is like swiss cheese in a lot of ways

[The Truth]

Strictly on baseball, game-related decisions, I would honestly say he's one of, if not the worst in baseball.

 

He makes absolutely puzzling lineup decisions. When another team would have DFA'ed the player by now or at least sent him to the minors, he had yet to even remove him from the 5-hole until halfway through the season. He is convinced that players with negative WAR make up a solid bench and give him DH coverage from within. He overworks his worst relievers and underworks his best ones. He argues that a good hitting #8 hitter is too valuable in the #8 hole to move anywhere else. He gives up more outs on the basepaths than almost any team in baseball with his reckless style. He relentlessly gives up outs in front of Braun and Fielder in an effort to move a runner up a base. If a squeeze works once, he continues to use it in every possible situation until it screws him over. He puts on some good, acceptable shifts, then negates them with nonsensial shifts. He took till mid-June to cut ties with by far the worst backup catcher in baseball. He doesn't understand a ROOGY and treats all lefties like they are a LOOGY. He actually dabbled with the idea of Kotsay platooning in the outfield.

 

I don't need to go on, do I? These are all things that our Brewers manager has actually done this year. All right, vent over.

Again, I will say that alot of this is related to the personnel that Melvin has given him....

 

There are quite a few players throughout MLB who have struggled, like Casey, in the 1st half, Uggla chief among them. Casey has put up a .800+ OPS 2 straight years, they are going to give him plenty of time to figure it out. No GM in baseball would DFA him at this point. OK, the 5 hole, who else are you going to put there? Corey Hart is the logical choice against rhp, I see that, but Corey was very inconsistent in parts of this year.

 

The Kotsay thing I don't get. But again, Kotsay is who Melvin gave him. Same with Nieves. Kottaras, we all like him because he can hit, but every other MLB manager likes him too, because they know they can run on him and can count on him X amount of passed balls per game (there's a stat for you!)

 

Lucroy in the 8 hole. If the bottom of Roenicke's order isn't somewhat balanced, we get 2 outs in 4 or 5 pitches with Betancourt & the pitcher. Or vs lhp 3 outs in 6 or 7 pitches with Betancourt, Gomez & the pitcher. (possibly the most brutal 7, 8, 9 in baseball)... the bullpen, other than Axford, is filled with guys who have very questionable talent levels or are way over the hill. I put that on Melvin, not Roenicke. Joe Torre or Casey Stengall couldn't work magic with that bullpen

 

We expect alot because of the talent the Brewers have but they have a ton of holes too.

[Funketown]

Again, I will say that alot of this is related to the personnel that Melvin has given him....

Tonight in the 8th inning Roenicke opted for Loe instead of Braddock to face four lefties in a row. He doesn't have the wrong personnel in the bullpen; both Loe and Braddock are very useful players if they're used properly. He simply doesn't understand what a platoon split is.

[adambr2]

I, personally, like Roenicke alot. But I think its been way too small of a sample to really know just how good of a manager he is.

 

I think alot of the complaints about Roenicke in this thread really should be directed at Doug Melvin. Roenicke's hands are tied somewhat by the talent he has to work with:

 

I mean, seriously, Kotsay vs Boggs vs Katin or whoever. Those are not exactly great choices.

 

Betancourt vs Josh Wilson? C'mon now. Nieves as a backup Catcher?

 

I realize that Roenicke had somewhat of a hand in signing off on some of this stuff but this Brewers roster is like swiss cheese in a lot of ways

We kept Braun/Prince together and added 2 near ace caliber pitchers in the offseason. I don't think Ken Macha would feel very sorry for Roenicke's level of team talent given the pitching staff he had to work with.

 

Betancourt, yeah, that's on Melvin for not doing more to improve it, but that's one position. No team is strong everywhere. Hell, the Yankees have gotten similar shortstop production from Jeter this season. The good teams are able to overcome one position of weakness.

 

On Nieves, pinning the team's difficulties on the level of talent because of the backup catcher is a bit silly, as is feeling sorry for Roenicke that we had him as a backup, since he was the kind of guy Roenicke was pining for all offseason, despite the fact that we already had a decent backup catcher, it was more or less a case of Roenicke getting exactly what he asked for.

 

Kotsay sucks, don't get me wrong, and he's a lousy choice by Melvin. That being said, he's the 5th OF'er. No one has forced Roenicke to send him to the plate 156 times this year.

So though the bench is awful, we aren't flirting with .500 again because we had a bad backup catcher for 2 months and Kotsay was signed.

 

 

 

 

[theavrock]

In todays game alone, he

 

1.batted Yuni B 5th

2. started Kotsay over Gomez

3.removed Marcum when he had 85 pitches and

4. let Loe face 4 lefties in a row. His career line against lefites you ask??? .305/.478/.843

 

This guy doesn't have any clue what he is doing and is completely overmatched.

 

If he didn't have the talent he has we wouldn't be giving him the leash he has. Big changes better be coming. Doug needs to make it fool proof for RRR.

[umphrey]

http://oi53.tinypic.com/143bk0.jpg

[fondybrewfan]

Its not RR's fault that the entire pitching staff has decided to suck for the last 1-2 weeks. It seems that no matter who he puts out there that they find some way to screw it up.

 

I thought that with the pitching staff we assembled that we would be immune to these poor streaks; obviously I was mistaken.

[logan82]

Its not RR's fault that the entire pitching staff has decided to suck for the last 1-2 weeks. It seems that no matter who he puts out there that they find some way to screw it up.

He has almost complete control which relief pitchers pitch. Loe is a ROOGY and should almost never face left handed hitters especially if Braddock is available yet somehow Loe is the 8th inning guy™. That's 100% on DPR.

[markedman5]

He thinks Loe is doing a good job as the 8th inning guy......

 

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/brewers.html

[pebadger]

I saw that and adjusted my monitor because I thought the blue font wasn't working correctly.

[stoutdude04]

Unbelievable. My girlfriend who only catches glimpses of the games told me that the last 3 times shes watched the games the big bald guy has been pitching...and weve lost. I could only chuckle.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I was lukewarm at best on this hiring when it occurred. I started hating it when I saw he managed the bullpen the same way Yost did.

 

And if we tank, and miss the playoffs and Kam Loe has anywhere close to the 12-13 losses he's currently on pace for, and is still pitching in the 8th inning, I'll hope Melvin gets fired too.

 

I'd honestly like to know what this guy told Melvin in the interview to make him think 'this is the guy'.

 

Honestly, if we tank and Roenicke's kept on, I can't renew my 9 game pack. There's only one way to let someone you buy a product know you're not satisified with the product, and that's to stop paying for it.

[joepepsi]

I'd like to know Melvin's criteria for a hiring a manager? As someone else noted on this board, he always seems to be looking for a guy who isn't like the previous guy. His search is reactionary; he doesn't seem to have a clear picture of what he thinks makes a good manager, or what the organizational goals are for a manager.

[JohnBriggs12]

I figured it out. Ron Roenicke is Ned Yost. That should surprise nobody. They were hired by the same guy who obviously used the same criteria for hiring both guys. Both were marginal major league players. Both were understudies to successful managers. Neither has a clue on how to handle a pitching staff, or manage a bench.

 

The Brewers were Yosted in the last two games. Since Roenickeied is a little too wordy, can we just reprise the Yosted term in regards to his twin, Ron Roenicke?