Impressions of Roenicke so far (part 1)

[Funketown]

I still don't understand how or why people think this. Roenicke said in the spring he wanted a defensive catcher on the team to back up Lucroy and the next day, we had Nieves. Melvin has had both Kottaras and Rivera on the team in the past so why wouldn't he bring them up again? Maybe it's Melvin's issue in that he's letting Roenicke dictate who should be on the team but Nieves is definitely on the team because Roenicke wants him to be.

At this point, I think that's a pretty fair criticism of Melvin. As GM, he needs to call the shots and tell Roenicke that some of these things are absolutely not acceptable. I do think we'll see some changes soon.

[fondybrewfan]

If I am remembering correctly; RR has pinch hit for Nieves as soon as Wolf is out (Or will be out) in each of his last 3 appearances. Obviously RR has no confidence in his offensive abilities at all yet still feels he is worth a roster spot.

 

If Fielder & Braun weren't so hot leading to a whole bunch of wins Melvin/RR would be feeling a lot more pressure to change the bench. Unfortunately I think the only way the bench is altered is if we go on a losing streak again.

[bobskube]

IMO, I think Nieves days are really numbered. I wouldn't be surprised to see a roster move very shortly. You cannot justify a guy with 50 ABs with zero RBI with OBP below .200. Even his couple of hits were just grounders through the hole and were not hit hard at all.

[logan82]

If we were looking to quantify games that RRR has lost, you might be able to pin this one on him.

4 hits off of Ryan Dempster. Yes the squeeze was a dumb decision, still not going to win many games if your offense gives you 4 hits.

This is exactly the type of game you want a good manager for. Your team is going to have days like this once in a while. A good manager would have given us a better chance to win. DPR on the other hand did almost everything he could to kill our chances to win.

[trwi7]

Its not like Lucroy has been lighting the world on fire either; he has been struggling big time.

It also doesn't help that Lucroy can never get a full day off because the backup catcher is so bad he gets taken out when Wolf leaves the game. Lucroy could benefit from a couple days off in a row but that means playing Nieves two games in a row.

[ELCABALLO45]

I think Roenicke has done a good job in making players happy for the most part. Macha's tough as nails attitude didn't work at all. He has also mixed the lineup well at times. As for the squeeze, I do not think it was a bad call. It just turned out bad because Wolf didn't get job done.

Now today's lineup was awful. Why is Kotsay in? Good question. McGehee 5th? Better question. Nieves in the majors is Melvin's issue. He must have something on Doug or something.

However, you still have to scratch out a run or two against these bums. That is what is unacceptable.

I still don't understand how or why people think this. Roenicke said in the spring he wanted a defensive catcher on the team to back up Lucroy and the next day, we had Nieves. Melvin has had both Kottaras and Rivera on the team in the past so why wouldn't he bring them up again? Maybe it's Melvin's issue in that he's letting Roenicke dictate who should be on the team but Nieves is definitely on the team because Roenicke wants him to be.

Doug Melvin is the GM not RR.

 

If for some reason in a drunken rage RR said "I want Suppan on this roster, and he will start for us Doug. I really like his leadership". And Doug Melvin goes out and signs him, whos fault is it for Suppan being on the roster?

[homer]

Loe is fine in the 8th, the problem lies in that he is just not good if he pitches more than 2 days in a row.

 

They also had Braddock and Hawkins very available. Blows my mind.

He's fine in the 8th but he doesn't have to pitch every 8th inning. Nor does he have to only pitch in the 8th inning. He can pitch in the 7th and someone else can pitch the 8th.

[rluzinski]

I agree that ultimately, who's on the roster is Melvin's responsibly.

[danzig6767]

Loe is fine in the 8th, the problem lies in that he is just not good if he pitches more than 2 days in a row.

 

They also had Braddock and Hawkins very available. Blows my mind.

He's fine in the 8th but he doesn't have to pitch every 8th inning. Nor does he have to only pitch in the 8th inning. He can pitch in the 7th and someone else can pitch the 8th.

I also don't understand why Braddock wasn't warming up in case Pena came up in the situation that he did?

 

Not only is Loe worse vs lefty hitters, Pena is batting a whopping .063 vs lefthanders this year and hit .179 vs lefthanders last year. Situations like that are why we have a lefthander in the pen.

 

Yea, Braun mangled that fly ball, but it was another non-sinking sinker by Loe and that ball only stayed in the yard because the win was blowing in.

[Raw Biz]

I think Roenicke has done a good job in making players happy for the most part. Macha's tough as nails attitude didn't work at all. He has also mixed the lineup well at times. As for the squeeze, I do not think it was a bad call. It just turned out bad because Wolf didn't get job done.

Now today's lineup was awful. Why is Kotsay in? Good question. McGehee 5th? Better question. Nieves in the majors is Melvin's issue. He must have something on Doug or something.

However, you still have to scratch out a run or two against these bums. That is what is unacceptable.

I still don't understand how or why people think this. Roenicke said in the spring he wanted a defensive catcher on the team to back up Lucroy and the next day, we had Nieves. Melvin has had both Kottaras and Rivera on the team in the past so why wouldn't he bring them up again? Maybe it's Melvin's issue in that he's letting Roenicke dictate who should be on the team but Nieves is definitely on the team because Roenicke wants him to be.

Doug Melvin is the GM not RR.

 

If for some reason in a drunken rage RR said "I want Suppan on this roster, and he will start for us Doug. I really like his leadership". And Doug Melvin goes out and signs him, whos fault is it for Suppan being on the roster?

Let's be realistic here, that example was just dumb. Nobody wants Suppan on their roster. Roenicke said he wanted a defensive catcher and Melvin got what he thought was one. It's not all on Roenicke and it's not all on Melvin. I'm sure other GMs take input from their coaches too. Yes, ultimately it is on Melvin to make a move and I bet (or hope) he will soon. But Roenicke was the one who wanted a guy like Nieves in the first place. Melvin probably hasn't bothered to remove him because the team has been winning and Wolf has been pitching well with him, two things I think Nieves hasn't really had an effect on. There is no doubt in my mind that Nieves would never have been signed had it not been suggested by Roenicke. We can debate whether Melvin SHOULD have signed him but I don't think it's a coincidence that he was signed shortly after Roenicke made his comments about a defensive catcher.

[Raw Biz]

Roenicke's post-game comments just further cement his idiocy in my mind:

On the blown suicide squeeze in the fifth:

Yeah, and it's a count where I know he's going to try to throw a strike because he doesn't want to face Rickie (Weeks) and then (Mark) Kotsay with a runner on third, so figured that 3-0 he threw one right down the middle, we figured 3-1 he'd throw another one there.

What if Dempster was trying to throw one down the middle but his command was a little off? Then you get a pitch high and outside and can't get the bunt down and you run into an out. Also, I'm pretty sure Dempster wouldn't have minded facing Kotsay (despite his .300 average against him coming into the game).

On using Kameron Loe over other options in the eighth:

No, it's not a tough call. Not if he can go it's not a tough call. He's our eighth inning guy. In tie ball games he throws the eighth inning and Ax will follow with it. I have other options, with Estrada, with Hawk, probably with Dillard now, but we felt good with Kameron there. We're always trying to look at what they're going to do, and if we bring in somebody what are they going to do on the bench. And if we bring in Hawk (LaTroy Hawkins), when they can get to it they're going to put in a lefty. So it's matching up our righthanders against their lefties and Pena, you just have to be careful with. I know his average might not look so good but he's always dangerous.

Again with the stupid defined 8th inning stuff. Does Roenicke really think Loe is going to tell him he can't go? Major League players are competitive and want to play. We've seen guys try to play through injuries/fatigue and this wouldn't be the first time. Roenicke has to know that Loe has blown up pitching 3 days in a row already. It's a long season. I know if Braun made that play there wouldn't have been a run scored but Pena still crushed that ball and it probably would've been a HR without the wind blowing in.

When asked if Zach Braddock was considered:

Yeah, but then if you bring in Braddock he has to go through right-handers also. If there were a couple of left-handers in a row, then I'd feel better about bringing him in.

So what if Braddock has to face righties? Braddock is not a LOOGY. Roenicke has had him face righties already this year so why would this game be any different?

I honestly don't understand Roenicke's thinking. I know managers rarely second-guess themselves (or at least say so in the media) but it would be refreshing to hear him talk about how his strategy failed and how he may do things differently next time. I'm also surprised nobody mentioned (that I saw) an IBB to set up a double play after Pena's at-bat.

 

 

(edit by 1992casey)

Offset quotes / Source: Cubs 1, Brewers 0: Ron Roenicke's Postgame Comments

[trwi7]

Chicago - Manager Ron Roenicke's bullpen decision -- and non-decision -- in the eighth inning of the Brewers' 1-0 loss Monday night to the Cubs left him open to second-guessing, which he admitted afterward.

With the score 0-0, Roenicke summoned setup man Kameron Loe to pitch the eighth inning for the third consecutive day though there were other options in Marco Estrada, Tim Dillard and LaTroy Hawkins.

“It’s not a tough call,” said Roenicke. “Not if (Loe) can go, it’s not a tough call. He’s our eighth inning guy and in tie ball games he goes the eighth and ‘Ax’ (John Axford) will follow him.”

Roenicke knew Cubs manager Mike Quade had left-handed-hitting Carlos Pena on the bench if the right situation arose, and it did after Darwin Barney singled with one out. Pena batted for Jeff Baker and smacked an opposite-field double off the wall in left, just beyond the reach of Ryan Braun.

That blow set the stage for Barney to beat Rickie Weeks’ throw home on Aramis Ramirez’s grounder up the middle for the only run despite the infield playing in.

Pena is batting .063 (3 for 48) against left-handed pitchers yet Roenicke saw no reason to summon Zach Braddock, who was quickly trying to get ready. Afterward, Roenicke admitted that Pena presented a tough match-up for Loe, a sinkerball pitcher.

Pena is a good low-ball hitter,” said Roenicke. “That plays into the way ‘Kam’ throws. The match-up isn’t ideal but I like the way ‘Kam’ is throwing the ball.”

Roenicke said if he would have summoned Braddock, he would have had to face the right-handed hitters who followed, Aramis Ramirez and Geovany Soto. But there's an easy way around that. You let Braddock face Pena, then you bring in one of the aforementioned right-handers to take over from there. No big deal.

I think the real problem was that Braddock wasn't ready to face Pena. As usual when he summons Loe to pitch the eighth, Roenicke diidn't have another reliever up in the pen. Braddock got up after the inning started but I don't think he was ready when Pena entered the game, yet the Brewers had not know Pena might be used there.

It's all more than a bit puzzling. Roenicke admits Pena poses a match-up problem for Loe. He knows Pena is 3 for 48 against lefties, yet he lets Loe face him in a 0-0 game in the eighth inning.

You can't help but second-guess it.

Link

[PrinceEatMeat]

I'm really sick of listening to Roenicke's excuses for over-using Loe, and leaving him in to pitch to guys he shouldn't pitch to. There's no reason to not use Braddock there, especially when Loe is pitching his 3rd day in a row. It's pure stupidity. I'm so sick of these defined roles he has for guys.

[Ayt]

His decision making in that instance -- and in many other similar late inning situations this year -- is indefensible.

[Marc Newfield of Dreams]

I'm also surprised nobody mentioned (that I saw) an IBB to set up a double play after Pena's at-bat.

The squeeze bugged me. Not using Braddock vs. Pena made me mad. This damn near put me through the roof. Egregiously bad managing. That Cubs lineup doesn't have a ton of threats in it, and he let Ramirez beat them. Especially with a big GIDP candidate in Soto on deck. Unreal.

[homer]

It's fairly obvious that RR went to the Ned Yost School of Bullpen Mis-Management.

 

"Gee it's the 8th inning, it's a close game, I better use my 8th inning guy regardless of the match-ups."

 

Could be my biggest managerial pet peeve.

[southpaw121505]

He can only use Braddock there if there is a cluster of lefties?? %#%? My head just exploded.

[adambr2]

Another strike to me against RR is that he does not seem to ever have the ability to admit he was wrong. I cannot stand it when managers do not hold themselves accountable. A manager who never thinks he was wrong is not learning from his mistakes.

[TooLiveBrew]

I think it's just a reality of a GM's job that he has to build a roster strong enough to overcome the manager's inevitable deficiencies. Too bad with RRR there just are so, so many.

[adambr2]

Braddock can only face a cluster of lefties, Loe can only pitch the 8th, Axford only the 9th, and everyone else is just there to fill in the blanks. Way to limit your pen as much as you possibly can, Ronny.

[dlk9s]

I don't mind having "set" roles for relievers, but there needs to be some room for adjustment, hence my use of quotes. It is much easier for relievers to prepare themselves mentally when they know the general situations in which they'll enter the game. The setup guy knows he's pitching the 8th with a small lead or maybe in a tie game. The closer knows he's got the 9th, etc. It's not easy to get geared up on a moment's notice without any idea at all if it might be your turn.

 

That said, a manager shouldn't always stick to the script. If a different, fully capable pitcher possibly has a much better matchup brewing, get him tentatively ready. Just let him get casually loose and if the situation draws nearer, have him pick up the pace so he can be all set to go.

 

I also still don't get why they didn't IBB Ramirez to load the bases with one out. Now you set up the force at home and a possible DP with Soto at the plate.

[TooLiveBrew]

"Your role is to warmup when I tell you and come in the game and pitch when I tell you." -- Earl Weaver

 

That's about as defined as I want bullpen roles to be. Want to have an idea of when to be ready? Be ready at all times. It's really not that hard; relievers pitched successfully for many many years with that notion of "role".

[danzig6767]

"Your role is to warmup when I tell you and come in the game and pitch when I tell you." -- Earl Weaver

 

That's about as defined as I want bullpen roles to be. Want to have an idea of when to be ready? Be ready at all times. It's really not that hard; relievers pitched successfully for many many years with that notion of "role".

No kidding

 

It's been amazing over the last decade or so as the vast majority of manager have followed a sheep like mentality in how they use their bullpens. A few teams went to this pretty rigid defined roles for their pen and for awhile now, nearly every manager now does the exact same thing.

 

LaRussa can certainly be a douchebag and it can drag games on as he continually changes pitchers later in games bases on matchups, but it would be extremely likely that in that situation, he'd have had Braddock already warmed up and ready to go once Pena was announced, and then he'd have put in Braddock. Unless his pen was on fumes, i can't imagine that he'd have let Pena face Loe given how Loe struggles more vs lefties and Pena struggles so badly vs lefties. Then Dillard could have been brought in to face Ramirez if Braddock vs him wasn't deemed a good matchup. It's not like the pen has been overused of late, everyone in that pen besides Loe/Axford was plenty rested.

 

If that situation doesn't call for using Braddock, why even bother having a lefty in the pen.

[Ayt]

I know it was mentioned, but not intentionally walking Ramirez to load the bases in the 8th was also a dumb move.

 

Has RR had a half inning with more of his incompetence on display than that one?

[DuWayne Steurer]

It's always interesting to me what non-baseball thinking people will say about the decisions that hardcore old school guys like Roenicke make.

 

My wife: "Why is Kotsay playing tonight instead of Morgan again?"

 

Me : Kotsay is 3 for 10 lifetime against Dumpster, and he had a homerun against him, a few years ago I think"

 

Wife: "That's just stupid. Just because he did something good 3 years ago doesn't mean he will now. He's old and he sucks".

 

Me: ......................