Impressions of Roenicke so far (part 1)

[adambr2]

So let's hear some perfectly honest assessments of the performance of our new manager through his first 51 games.

 

I'll start -- I'm not a fan. My first impression is that, like it seems to be a trend in this organization, he seems to overvalue the presence of veteran players. Kotsay is on pace for about 300 AB's, which is severe overkill to me, even with the injuries so far to Hart and Morgan. Nieves has managed to escape through the two months of the season unscatched as Lucroys backup despite having absolutely no offensive value and little defensive value.

 

His aggressive philosophy sounds great to the casual fan on paper, but in practice has resulted in a number of costly baserunning mistakes and excessive outs on the basepaths.

 

I wouldn't rate his bullpen use so far as all that horrible, but he, like many other managers before him, seems to be stuck in the mindset of having a "7th inning guy" and an "8th inning guy" without consideration to the situation. He has utilized extremely small sample sizes not only for bullpen matchups, but even to simply set lineups. On the subject of lineups, he insisted on forcing Gomez to be our #2 hitter, seemingly also stuck in another mindset that at the top of the lineup, fast = good, despite Gomez having major deficiencies that go against everything a #2 hitter should be, particularly OBP. He seemed particularly stubborn to abandon Gomez in the #2 hole, even after being deservedly roasted for continuing to do it.

 

I'm not going to comment either way on his extreme use of shifts because frankly, I'm not certain what the ballpark is for runs saved vs. extra runs allowed with the use of the shifts.

 

I won't leave him with nothing positive. I think that his team seems to respect him as a clubhouse figure and plays hard for him, and that counts for something. But as far as everyday managerial decisions; to me, he seems like a nice, underqualified guy trying to feel his way through the season. That would be find if we were in a rebuilding mode, but in a year that we intend to compete, it's a little bit concerning to me.

[TooLiveBrew]

Strengths: Players seem to like him, defensive shifting

Weaknesses: Roster construction, lineup construction, in-game pitching management, in-game offensive management

 

I didn't think I'd like him, given his initial comments when hired. I didn't think he'd be this bad, though.

[adambr2]

I thought I'd like him more than I have, I figured he'd be a pretty respectable baseball mind coming from a Mike Scioscia school.

 

But to me he just seems lost. Telling us that Lucroy can't be moved up because he's too valuable in the #8 hole -- I just feel like the guy doesn't have a clue and what he does know about baseball is leftover knowledge from the 90's.

 

At this point I definitely think Macha was a smarter baseball guy, but his personality just didn't fit in well with the players.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

I'm definitely in sell mode right now

[Ennder]

He certainly has his flaws, but for a first year manager I can look past them for now. I like the aggression on the bases as a philosophy but some of our players certainly haven't learned the right time to do it yet. I like him more than Macha or Yost to this point that really isn't high praise in any way as they are two really terrible managers.

[PKBadger]

After tonight's episode, I would like to strap Roenicke to a chair, "Clockwork Orange"-style, and force him to watch the eighth inning of the 2003 ALCS Game 7 on repeat.

[jerichoholicninja]

I haven't watch enough games this year to have an opinion of how he manages a game but based on the lineups he's put out he's your typical stuck in tradition manager. If he has been pulling for Kotsay and Nieves to still having a roster spot he might be the worst Brewers manager in my lifetime.

[Flood Pants]

I'd like to see the front office give him a shorter leash. I think Melvin is pretty hands-off when it comes to managing. But Melvin is a smart baseball mind and understands stats, at least to an extent. With improvements to his lineup construction and in-game strategy, RR could be very good. I'd like to see the organization give him the guidance he needs.

[GAME05]

without Hart and Greinke to start the year, maybe the Brewers have won a few games more than they otherwise would have under a different manager, and that's what counts the most.

 

playing Koskie so much is really the only negative thing i have against him. generally i like the job he's been doing.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I like the positive attitude he has installed in the clubhouse. The players and coaches all seem to like him. He seems like a genuinely nice guy. He did have pretty easy comps with Grandpa Macha.

 

I can't get my arms around his managerial style...I guess it's work in progress. He sticks to many of the old baseball ways of doing things that I despise...bunting in the first inning, having a set 8th inning guy instead of maximizing the leverage situation to bring in a reliever and the love for gritty veterans who are way past their expiration date (see Kotsay, Mark). Same old garbage there...although even Macha figured out not to bunt early. The lineup card is getting close to optimal lately save a mindboggling Kotsay start here and there...haven't liked it early, but it's getting there. He has been short a few tools with injuries and a horrendous bench, but he hasn't completely optimized it yet.

 

He's also trying some new things...the shifts and being aggressive on the basepaths. The shifts appear to the naked eye to be working more than not, but I'd love to see some statistical evidence to back it up. The aggressiveness I like overall, but it's tended to be a little sloppy. Make the fielders make a play...I like that, but don't get carried away. Last night we ran ourselves out of a couple situations that didn't make sense. We've had way too many baserunning errors and guys getting picked off as well.

 

I'll give him a C- at this point, but I see him working towards a B-/C+ over time.

[Schlitz001]

playing Koskie so much is really the only negative thing i have against him. generally i like the job he's been doing.

I think you mean Kotsay http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

I like having a player friendly manager over a guy like Macha. There are only 2 things that really get to me about how RR has managed so far this season. 1) Playing our terrible backups (see Kotsay) when we have very capable and proven starting position players. 2) Overaggressive baserunning. RR goes for the extra base too much and it's hurt him on several occasions.

[Invader3K]

I think so far the positives he brings outweigh the negatives. Every manager is going to have those quirks we can nitpick as fans.

[KCBrewerfan34]

A better topic would be is RR an upgrade over Macha, Sveum and Yost. Since we're in this and I haven't seen any major blunders I absolutely am in the RR camp. Typical Brewerfan over analysis and nitpicking though from fans. Maybe you guys want Macha back and a buried team by the end of May http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

GO BREW

[Invader3K]

I would take Roenicke over any of those guys, certainly.

[Raw Biz]

I agree with everything Adam and TLB said. The players seem to like him which I think is very important. But he's still in that "old baseball" mindset. That's why I would've liked to have seen a younger manager come in. I was hoping for Joey Cora and I actually would've liked to see how Sveum would've done. I don't think the few weeks he got in 08 were enough to judge.

The things I really can't stand about Roenicke are his love for veterans and bullpen management. I don't think it's nitpicking to say that giving Kotsay a projected 300 AB will be a problem. Obviously injuries were part of the reason he played so much so he may not hit that mark. But I still think he played too much even with the injuries. Also, there is no reason to have Nieves. Last night would have been a good time to pinch hit with Rivera, where a home run could've tied the game. I also don't think the bullpen mismanagement (Green, over-use of Loe, not knowing when to pull a starter) is nitpicking either.

[1992casey]

He sticks to many of the old baseball ways of doing things that I

despise...bunting in the first inning, having a set 8th inning guy

instead of maximizing the leverage situation to bring in a reliever and

the love for gritty veterans who are way past their expiration date (see

Kotsay, Mark).

 

A set 8th inning guy is relatively new. It's an area where I think baseball strategy has changed for the worse (like the one-inning "closer"). However, when something is done by every manager in baseball, I can't fault one manager for being part of the crowd. The best you can hope for is that he flexes a bit.

 

My main complaint about RRR is that he doesn't seem to grasp the value of offense and defense. However, as noted above, more recent linuep cards seem to be more reasonable. Recent comments about Hart concern me, though.

 

Except for Loe, he's been cognizant of pitch counts and innings pitched. Given his lineups, if he weren't paying attention to pitch counts, we'd have another Dusty Baker on our hands.

 

I'd single him out about reliance on small samples, but that appears to affect most managers. Yost and Macha certainly had issues in that area.

[KCBrewerfan34]

I don't buy this Kotsay assessment. The only reason why that guy was playing is because of injuries, if Morgan and Hart can stay healthy Kotsay's number of AB's will go way down.

 

Keep in mind guys Melvin has a say so on personnel as well. When we have a all-star caliber catcher does the backup matter that much where were bagging on the manager. LuCroy should make the all-star game in my book, he plays in day games after night games, Nieves role is TINY http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[adambr2]

A better topic would be is RR an upgrade over Macha, Sveum and Yost. Since we're in this and I haven't seen any major blunders I absolutely am in the RR camp. Typical Brewerfan over analysis and nitpicking though from fans. Maybe you guys want Macha back and a buried team by the end of May http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

GO BREW

Macha had Jeff Suppan as his opening day starter in 2009. I imagine if he had a top 3 in his rotation of Zach Greinke, Shaun Marcum, and Yovani Gallardo to work with, he could have scraped together a 27-24 record at this point in the season too.

 

[adambr2]

I don't buy this Kotsay assessment. The only reason why that guy was playing is because of injuries, if Morgan and Hart can stay healthy Kotsay's number of AB's will go way down.

 

Keep in mind guys Melvin has a say so on personnel as well. When we have a all-star caliber catcher does the backup matter that much where were bagging on the manager. LuCroy should make the all-star game in my book, he plays in day games after night games, Nieves role is TINY http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

He's starting for our MLB team today, which in and of itself is a larger role than I think he ought to have.

 

 

[Oldcity]

Of all the managers they've had under Melvin, I'd take Macha with this pitching staff. The players didn't like him... Fine. That's not a good thing, but it's better to at least be competent during a game. The Kotsay thing is freakin' mind-boggling, as is his use of Loe, bunting, windmill approach in sending runners, hitting Gomez second for so long, playing Kotsay in center, and hardly using Counsell at all when his shortstop is horrendous.

[PrinceEatMeat]

After seeing today's lineup, I have to wonder if Roenicke was dropped on his head as a baby or something.

[logan82]

My main complaint about RRR is that he doesn't seem to grasp the value of offense and defense. However, as noted above, more recent linuep cards seem to be more reasonable.

 

I beg to differ. Kotsay in CF for 4 games in one week makes no sense.

 

Today's lineup, Morgan against a lefty instead of Hart, Lucroy out, and Gomez #2. Inconceivable. DPR strikes again.

[1992casey]

DPR? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[logan82]

DPR? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

Dread Pirate Roenicke. I find myself saying inconceivable a lot.

[1992casey]

By the way, you made your point about the recent lineup cards. The "reasonable" lineups seem to be purely accidental. I'll revise my statement so it says simply, "My main complaint about RRR is that he doesn't seem to grasp the value of offense and defense."