Collisions at the plate

[Hammer]

Where do you all fall in on the topic of protecting catchers at the plate? Do you favor the QB treatment like in football? Tony Alphabet (LaRussa) thinks that they should start wearing skirts...

 

My take - it would ruin the integrity of the game if there are any more changes to this sweet sport...

[Raw Biz]

Just read this article about it.

I don't see any way to change it. It's part of the game. If the catcher doesn't want to risk injury, then don't block the plate.

[Nottso]

Just read this article about it.

I don't see any way to change it. It's part of the game. If the catcher doesn't want to risk injury, then don't block the plate.

^ What he said.

[bucksbeat]

It's unfortunate when these injuries happen but it is part of the game. There's nothing that can be done without, as hammer said, ruining the integrity of the game. Make all runners cross home plate on a slide? All runners automatically called out if the catcher has the ball in hand at the plate?

 

Personally I see no elevated injury occurrences at the plate than I do at second base on hard slides.

[dlk9s]

I'm not saying by any means that collisions should be done away with, but I really have never understood why it's ok to destroy the catcher but not players covering other bases. Because he has a chest protector? It's not like his gear is very strong or offers much coverage. He's not protected like a football player.

 

Collisions are something I've always accepted and, frankly, are pretty exciting, but every so often I've wondered why they are allowed.

[Ennder]

If they enforced the out of the baseline rule at home plate so players couldn't go around the tag so easily then catchers could probably sit in front of the plate instead of on it and avoid most of these hits.

 

I'm certainly not for keeping it the way it is because "that is how the game is supposed to be played", that is just a way of saying you have no argument for your opinion.

[pretendastronaut]

I'm not saying by any means that collisions should be done away with, but I really have never understood why it's ok to destroy the catcher but not players covering other bases. Because he has a chest protector? It's not like his gear is very strong or offers much coverage. He's not protected like a football player.

 

 

 

Collisions are something I've always accepted and, frankly, are pretty exciting, but every so often I've wondered why they are allowed.

 

I think the difference is catchers are allowed to block the plate, and infielders aren't allowed to block the bag.

[CheezWizHed]

As being a former high school catcher, I think the same rule should be applied as for HS catchers. If they guy is intentionally attempting to take out the catcher and not sliding or avoiding, he should be out. Indirect contact is ok, but the dropping the shoulder to go through the catcher isn't, IMO. Doesn't have to be kids gloves, but its not football either.

[Ennder]

If they guy is intentionally attempting to take out the catcher and not sliding or avoiding, he should be out. Indirect contact is ok, but the dropping the shoulder to go through the catcher isn't, IMO. Doesn't have to be kids gloves, but its not football either.

 

The fault is almost universally in where the catchers sit and not what the baserunner does.

[Baldkin]

Yep. You don't want to get run over, don't block the plate. The catcher could easily stand... not in the baseline and try to swipe tag a runner as he goes by.

 

If I were the Brewers, I'd be telling Lucroy never to block the plate again.

[danzig6767]

As being a former high school catcher, I think the same rule should be applied as for HS catchers. If they guy is intentionally attempting to take out the catcher and not sliding or avoiding, he should be out. Indirect contact is ok, but the dropping the shoulder to go through the catcher isn't, IMO. Doesn't have to be kids gloves, but its not football either.

As others have said, if a catcher is sitting there completely blocking the plate, a baserunner has really no other option to try and score except to go through the catcher and hope the ball is dropped.

 

So if they want to make a rule that catchers can't be run over, then another rule should be that catchers can't block the plate. I was a catcher also for a number of years and the reason catchers are willing to stick their whole leg in front of the plate to block a slide in a way that other infielders won't do the same thing to block a base is obvious, the catcher has on gear that protects them from getting spiked in most cases. It's a big advantage for the catcher. The runner can even beat the throw sometimes, but still ends up being out because his sliding foot never gets to the plate as the catchers leg and hard plastic leg guard block access to the plate.

 

So if the throw beats the runner to the plate and he can see the catcher is down or getting down in position with his leg/leg guard likely in position block any sliding foot from being able to get at the plate, you're pretty much preventing that runner from having any chance to score if the option is also removed to at least try and dislodge the ball.

[Nottso]

I really don't get the whole "slide around the catcher (or parts thereof)" proposed by Morosi and others. It's far too ambiguous.

a) How far should a runner have to go to avoid a collision?

b) What happens when the "how far" varies greatly between umpires, or even between plays with a single umpire?

The easy answer to those questions would be that "umpire variance is all part of the game," which would pretty much lead myself and others right back to "collisions at the plate are all part of the game."

[Invader3K]

I don't see how they can change it. Posey's injury is rather flukey, and this sort of thing just happens sometimes. Just like sometimes a second baseman gets hurt by a sliding runner, or a center fielder gets hurt crashing into a wall, or a pitcher injures something throwing a fastball. Injuries are a part of sports, unfortunately.

[endaround]

But they shouldn't be and are technically against the rules. Its illegal to block any base and its illegal to interfere with someone trying to apply a tag in a violent manner. There is no reason for it to be part of the game.

[Nottso]

But they shouldn't be and are technically against the rules. Its illegal to block any base and its illegal to interfere with someone trying to apply a tag in a violent manner. There is no reason for it to be part of the game.

In my mind, that still puts it on the catcher. If the catcher didn't commit his illegal act, there would be no reason for the runner to commit his illegal act. This would also mean most base runners trying to break up a DP by going hard into second base should be out. Plenty of times the 2b is behind the bag, but the runner still comes in hard.

Where does it end?

[Ennder]

I said it early but I can't stress it enough, the first step is to limit how far out of the baseline the runner can slide. Right now if the catcher gives the runner the plate the runner can slide so far out of the baseline that the C really struggles to be able to apply a tag, if they limit where the runner can slide it makes it so the catcher doesn't have to block the plate.

[CheezWizHed]

I'll admit to not having any good method (other than a subjective Ump call) to separate a take-out-the-catcher from a sliding-take-out. I just don't like seeing someone coming in, dropping the shoulder, blasting through the catcher, then having to come back 5 steps to actually touch home plate.

 

I don't like it when I see Prince do it (or Nyger) to someone and I don't like it when I see someone doing it to our catcher.

 

I'll add to what I said above that the subjective call should only happen on the blatant take-outs, not just any collision. I actually enjoyed catching and some of the collisions I absorbed (and handed out). And with concussions being on the forefront of people's concerns, it wouldn't surprise me to see some ruling on this.

 

As for blocking the plate, I thought it was legal as long as the catcher had the ball (or at least a close play). Obviously, if the ball is going to be late, the catcher can't block (or fake) and allow the runner to score unmolested. That was how I was always taught the game, anyway.

 

edit - I'll add that I haven't seen the Posey collision and my opinion is not based on that.

[jerichoholicninja]

Just saw the Posey play. That was one of the weakest collisions I've ever seen. The reason he got hurt was because he was on his knees instead of on his feet. If he's on his feet he just gets knocked onto his back but instead his knees get bent underneath him. I don't think I've ever seen a catcher block the plate that way and this is probably why. All blame goes on Posey for this.

[logan82]

Posey wasn't blocking the plate at all. The plate is completely open the whole time. It looked more like he was going for a sweep tag. I am sure Cousins didn't know it at the time but Posey never had control of the ball.

[MJLiverock]

I don't see the need to change rules everytime a fluke injury occurs just because it happened to a star player. It's a shame for Posey and the Giants but injuries happen. It isn't like catchers are having season ending injuries due to collisions on a frequent basis. If baseball want to reiterate to players not to shoulder into the catcher who is standing in front of the plate that seems fair, you'd think a slide there would be better anyway.

[JohnBriggs12]

You don't see 2nd basemen blocking the base. There's really no need to allow a catcher to impede a runner. With all the emphasis on the long term dangers of concussions, this is one aspect of baseball that should be changed. Just because it's always been that way doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed in light of all the research on head injuries.

 

I never liked the idea of blocking a plate. Blocking is a football act, not a baseball one. Make the catcher have to catch and put a tag on like an infielder does rather than parking himself in the baseline waiting for a throw and inviting a collision.

[endaround]

I don't see the need to change rules everytime a fluke injury occurs just because it happened to a star player. It's a shame for Posey and the Giants but injuries happen. It isn't like catchers are having season ending injuries due to collisions on a frequent basis. If baseball want to reiterate to players not to shoulder into the catcher who is standing in front of the plate that seems fair, you'd think a slide there would be better anyway.

Actually you see it all the time, either the catcher getting hurt or the runner getting hurt. You would think Brewer fans would have long enough memories to remember Hardy's ankle or you know Morgan.

[MJLiverock]

All the time? How many season ending injuries have catchers suffered in the past 20 years do to collisions? Not very many. Guys may get banged up now and then and miss a game but that also happens all over the bases with awkward slides, collisions at 2nd base. Someone even ran into Prince at 1st base this year and had to leave the game.

 

Hardy wasn't a catcher and he got hurt sliding not shouldering into a catcher.

 

Jason Kendall stepped awkwardly on first base breaking his ankle pretty bad and ending his season, should first base have been lowered to be flat with the ground?

[endaround]

The catcher was blocking the plate on Hardy. There is at least one season ending injury a year plus countless more weeks lost, for what exactly?

[strawbossisevil]

I'll just add that I'm fine with the rules the way they are. It is a sport, and injuries happen in sports. If a catcher wants to avoid a collision he has the ability to do just that, however if he positions himself in the baseline, he knows what is coming.

 

The play is not all that frequent. It isn't like in football where players were being brutalized on a game by game basis with repeated shots with a helmet to the head. If the collisions at home involved a player slamming his helmet into the head of the catcher week after week, I could see taking measures because hits like that are dangerous and potentially deadly, but not so much with a body to body blow.