3 catchers....why?

[adambr2]

I get that we want to improve our bench, but there has to be a better way to do it. First of all, Lucroy is a serviceable defensive player -- in other words, we don't need a defensive replacement for him, and he's an everyday option. So on the once a week or so occasion when Lucroy needs a rest, filling his spot with a complete offensive hack to save a little on D, is a curious decision at best.

 

Which brings me to Wil Nieves. His ability to stick around on the 25 man roster for 2 months, relatively unnoticed, amazes me. He is OPS'ing .409 and is a below replacement value player overall for his career. There is no way I can believe that Nieves is a better 2nd catcher option than Kottaras. He's far younger, swings a much better bat, and would actually be a pinch-hitting option if necessary. Yes, you lose a bit defensively, but at least having him in the lineup is bearable, and you've got another lefty in the lineup when he does.

 

Rivera is here I imagine solely for his bat, but if we really were looking for an extra bench bat, Branyan would have been better. You've still got Gomez (when Morgan returns) and Boggs as right-handed bench options. Now that beings said, I'd still prefer Rivera to Nieves as our second catcher, so if that's his role here, I'm fine with him on the roster, but Nieves still being on it is baffling to me.

[joepepsi]

Jerry Narron said on the radio pregame the other day Rivera was only here for his bat. Which is a pretty stupid reason. If that's all they need, why not bring up Brendan Katin who really has nothing left to prove in AAA?

 

The bench decisions have been bizarre this year, to say the least.

 

My hope is that when Morgan comes back Nieves is DFA'd, and Rivera and Boggs both stay on the team.

[bjkrautk]

Jerry Narron said on the radio pregame the other day Rivera was only here for his bat. Which is a pretty stupid reason. If that's all they need, why not bring up Brendan Katin who really has nothing left to prove in AAA?

Katin isn't on the 40-man Roster, which is now full after the Herrera waiver claim. The only position players on the 40 man roster who aren't also on the 25-man:

 

Martin Maldonado (C, AA)

Eric Farris (2b, AAA)

Mat Gamel (1b, AAA)

Erick Almonte (15-day DL)

Nyjer Morgan (15-day DL)

 

Farris' .270 / .314 OBP / .377 Slg. doesn't exactly warrant a call-up. Gamel does, but I assume that the team wants him to play every day (or there's a service time concern, given that he'll likely take over for Prince next year).

 

The Brewers could make temporary room for another 40-man player by moving Saito to the 60-day DL, (he'd only have to be out until 6/5), but they still expect him back reasonably soon. With Morgan coming off the DL in a matter of days, the F.O. probably decided that the benefit of pulling a prospect out of their routine for a week didn't justify that kind of move...particularly if that meant outrighting / waiving a player to send them back down.

[endaround]

Almonte could be put to the 60 as well or if healthy DFA'd

[monty57]

It's my belief that Nieves made the team because Roenicke wants a veteran backup to his young starter. The day after he was hired, Roenicke stated this, and the next day Nieves was signed. Other than that, there's really no reason Nieves should have a job, as he's pretty useless. I hope they've finally realized this, and once Morgan's back they will keep Rivera (who also has a "veteran presence") on the roster and send Nieves packing. I think/hope that they are keeping Kottaras in the minors to work on his defense. Offensively he is the best option for a backup, but I think his defense needs work. Maybe a season in AAA as a starter will allow him to be a very capable backup to Lucroy for the next few seasons.

 

As bjkrautk pointed out, we don't have any better bats to bring up right now, so until Morgan's back, Rivera makes sense as a RH bench bat. Once Nieves is (hopefully) let go, it will free up a 40-man spot. If Almonte learns how to catch a ball without having it hit him in the face (it just happened again a few days ago), then he can come off the DL and we can dump him, opening up another 40-man spot. I don't believe they can cut him while he's injured and they'd have to pay him all season if they 60-day him, so the Brewers are probably trying to hold out until he's healthy to DFA him.

[And That]

Jerry Narron said on the radio pregame the other day Rivera was only here for his bat. Which is a pretty stupid reason. If that's all they need, why not bring up Brendan Katin who really has nothing left to prove in AAA?

Katin isn't on the 40-man Roster

I think what joepepsi was saying is: why bring up Rivera over Katin? Rivera had to be added to the 40-man when he came up.

[joepepsi]

You're giving me too much credit And That. I didn't realize Katin wasn't on the 40 man until bjkrautk corrected me. Thanks for the explanations everyone. I understand the 3 catcher situation better now.

[brwrsfan]

If we brought him up to have his bat...how come he never gets to hit? He has started one game and had I believe only 2 PH at bats? What's the point?

[bjkrautk]

I think what joepepsi was saying is: why bring up Rivera over Katin? Rivera had to be added to the 40-man when he came up.

The transaction log at the Brewers website didn't make that clear to me, although that would explain why Green was DFA'd on the same day.

 

I think he's primarily there as a player they could afford to lose if forced to take someone off the 40-man. (That, of course, brings up the odd situation of Katin - who's too old to be a prospect, but is maybe hitting too well to pass through waivers on the way back down? I'm assuming he was on the 40-man at some point to avoid being grabbed in the Rule 5 Draft, so that he couldn't go down without clearing waivers? It's been way too long since I looked at the transactions primer...)

 

 

[joepepsi]

OK, so now I screwed up again? Rivera had to be added to the 40 man? Well in that case, I would have brought up Katin.

[monty57]

I think he's primarily there as a player they could afford to lose if forced to take someone off the 40-man.

 

I'm hoping that Rivera was added so that Nieves could be DFA'd when Morgan's back. That would open a 40-man spot, but I've kind of given up hope on Katin. I've watched for years now as Katin keeps putting up numbers and Melvin keeps passing him over, even as we seem to have a perpetual need for a RH bat and a power bat off the bench. I'll be happy if it ever happens, but I won't believe it until I see it.

[Warning Track Power]

I think he's primarily there as a player they could afford to lose if forced to take someone off the 40-man.

 

I'm hoping that Rivera was added so that Nieves could be DFA'd when Morgan's back. That would open a 40-man spot, but I've kind of given up hope on Katin. I've watched for years now as Katin keeps putting up numbers and Melvin keeps passing him over, even as we seem to have a perpetual need for a RH bat and a power bat off the bench. I'll be happy if it ever happens, but I won't believe it until I see it.

Seriously?! What is the deal with Katin not even getting a whiff of the Majors? He strikes out a ton but it sure does seem like we have the RH version of Russell Branyan sitting in the Minors. I don't get it if that is the true reason Rivera is up. The decisions with the bench this year have blown me away. First with Kotsay (which hasn't been abyssmal like I thought it would), Almonte aka Erick Mouton being on the roster, Nieves over Kottaras, 1 utility IF, 3 catchers, etc...makes you wonder if its Roenicke and his staff as I don't recall DM ever trotting out such an odd collection of bench players.

[CheezWizHed]

3 catchers....why?

 

To match our 3 SS. Evidently, the Brewer saw what the Packers did with 3 FB and are trying to mimic them to get the same results!

[adambr2]

Again, I'll ask, how is it June and Wil Nieves is somehow still here?

 

At the plate he's another pitcher. And not even a good hitting pitcher.

 

Behind the plate I think he's demonstrated well enough that he's not good enough to justify keeping him solely on his defense. Roenicke is just being stubborn at this point. Nieves cannot possibly be the second best catching option we have. He is awful.

 

Is he really around just because our #4 starting pitcher can't get on the same page with Lucroy?

[TooLiveBrew]

Here's your reason:

Having a veteran behind Lucroy “will just help that young guy understand what it takes to be that total package catcher,” Roenicke said. “It’s not just blocking balls. It’s not just throwing out runners, but it is about game calling, and it is the communication that you have with a pitcher, and when he’s struggling and in between innings you walk over to talk to him about what’s going on and try to get him back on the right track.

“That takes a lot of experience. But when you have an experienced guy out there helping you with it, it makes it a lot easier.”

Apparently all that mumbo-jumbo > .427 OPS

 

 

EDIT: .427 OPS!!!

[logan82]

Yeah lets get a backup catcher who never stuck anywhere but the minors, can't hit and can't play defense to tutor our young catcher. Good call.

 

I forgot to add, inconceivable.

[adambr2]

Here's your reason:

Having a veteran behind Lucroy “will just help that young guy understand what it takes to be that total package catcher,” Roenicke said. “It’s not just blocking balls. It’s not just throwing out runners, but it is about game calling, and it is the communication that you have with a pitcher, and when he’s struggling and in between innings you walk over to talk to him about what’s going on and try to get him back on the right track.

“That takes a lot of experience. But when you have an experienced guy out there helping you with it, it makes it a lot easier.”

Apparently all that mumbo-jumbo > .427 OPS

 

 

EDIT: .427 OPS!!!

 

I've got Nieves at .400 OPS right now. So, about 74 points under just the slugging percentage of Lucroy.

 

Anyway, isn't this what we pay coaches for? Lucroy has regressed a bit this year defensively, and you could argue gamecalling as well judging by the miscommunication with Wolf compared to last year. So, forgive me Roenicke for thinking that the concept that Lucroy is somehow reaping benefits from having Wil Nieves on the roster is total crap. He seemed to do just fine last year with Kottaras as the other catcher, who is known a lot more for his bat than being a "total package" catcher.

 

Also, Nieves is a slightly below average catcher defensively for his career. I cannot believe for one second that having Wil Nieves as a backup catcher in 2011 is going to make an ounce of difference in the production and development of Jonathan Lucroy. It just amazes me that people who are payed professionally to manage a baseball team, can somehow convince themselves that just because a guy is in his 30's, and has been around the league for a few years as a backup, his overall presence is good for the team, regardless of actual production.

 

[trwi7]

Remember when every Brewers fan was waited for the day we got rid of Chad Moeller? Little did we know it could get worse. Much worse.

[Bombers]

Nieves has to go. A 427 OPS? If they really need him there to "talk" to Lucroy, hire him back as a coach after you designate him. No one will claim him, then just have him coach.

[rluzinski]

What if you pinch hit for your catcher and he gets hurt? That happens so often that you have to have 3 or 4 catchers just in case.

[danzig6767]

Here's your reason:

Having a veteran behind Lucroy “will just help that young guy understand what it takes to be that total package catcher,” Roenicke said. “It’s not just blocking balls. It’s not just throwing out runners, but it is about game calling, and it is the communication that you have with a pitcher, and when he’s struggling and in between innings you walk over to talk to him about what’s going on and try to get him back on the right track.

“That takes a lot of experience. But when you have an experienced guy out there helping you with it, it makes it a lot easier.”

Apparently all that mumbo-jumbo > .427 OPS

 

 

EDIT: .427 OPS!!!

Last time i checked, Mike Rivera is a veteran who has caught a ton of games. Seems the type who'd go out of his way to mentor a young catcher, and while Rivera is far from a great hitting catcher, he isn't a bad hitting pitcher level at the plate.

 

It's incredible how feeble Nieves is at the plate. He not only is an out machine that swings at everything like our other out machine Betancourt, Nieves never even hits a ball hard for an unlucky out. Almost nothing except weak grounders, poputs, and shallow fly balls.

 

Who makes the call on all these bench hitting scrubs we've assembled? Is it all the choice of Melvin or is Roenicke having significant input on who is comprising the Brewers sad bench? On days that Morgan is starting in CF, this is our bench

 

Gomez/Kotsay/Counsell/Wilson/Nieves

 

If hypothetically each of those guys had to play a lot for a team with say 300 at bats or more, there is a pretty decent chance that none of the five could finish with at least a .650 OPS and multiple of the five would finish under a .600 OPS. It wouldn't be easy for another big league GM to assemble a worse hitting bench than those five.

[adambr2]

Didn't Roenicke say while he was making the lineup the other day, "You know, this is a really nice bench."

 

I'm really hoping he doesn't actually think that or I'm going to start questioning his sanity.