Roenicke wants me to think he's an idiot (Kotsay in CF)

[endaround]

Yes Kotsay has a .362 OBP but take away the 3 IBB and it drops down to .333 and projects at .315 going forward.

 

That assumes those ab's would not have resulted in him getting on base.

No it just removes those 3 PAs. Kotsay has gotten on base 25 times including the 3 IBB in 73 PAs. Looking at the other 70 PAs he got on 22 times for a current OBP of .314. Those IBB had nothing to do with Kotsay or how Kotsay is hitting.

[joepepsi]

Boggs played 32 games in CF last year at AAA. He's played more games in the minors at CF than any other position. I think it safe to assume he is at least adequate in center.

 

Boggs has a career minor league obp of .379, over 100 points higher than his batting average. Even in his 372 major league plate appearances his obp is 103 points higher than his batting average. He played great in Spring Training. He's played great in Nashville. I don't understand why this team even bothered with him if they had no intention of giving him a shot even if he performs well.

 

He's the 2 hole hitter they need. Sheesh.

[logan82]

Kotsay is blocking several good things from happening to improve the roster.

[TooLiveBrew]

[boggs] played great in Spring Training. He's played great in

Nashville. I don't understand why this team even bothered with him if

they had no intention of giving him a shot even if he performs well.

He's the 2 hole hitter they need. Sheesh.

 

 

Seems pretty simple, doesn't it? Roenicke needs to settle in & really get out of his own way imo. Stop trying to gameplan for every situation with the lineup, plug your 5 best hitters in the top 5 spots, & let them hit.

[fondybrewfan]

If Gomez does need to rest a game or so does it really matter who we put in CF? Anyway you put it the defense is going to be awful; so you might as well just put the best offensive lineup possible out there.

 

Braun / Kotsay / Hart (Yuck)

Braun / Kotsay / Boggs (Yuck)

Braun / Hart / Kotsay (Yuck)

Braun / Hart / Boggs (Yuck)

Braun / Boggs / Hart (Yuck)

Braun / Boggs / Kotsay (Yuck)

 

When you take out your only good outfielder and have no defensive specialists on your bench; your defensive outfield is just going to be bad. Kotsay would be fine in CF for a game or two if need be.

[monty57]

Boggs played 32 games in CF last year at AAA. He's played more games in the minors at CF than any other position. I think it safe to assume he is at least adequate in center.

 

Boggs has a career minor league obp of .379, over 100 points higher than his batting average. Even in his 372 major league plate appearances his obp is 103 points higher than his batting average. He played great in Spring Training. He's played great in Nashville. I don't understand why this team even bothered with him if they had no intention of giving him a shot even if he performs well.

 

He's the 2 hole hitter they need. Sheesh.

I agree, and I have been on the Boggs bandwagon for a while. However, to start the season, Boggs was left off the roster by Melvin in favor of Kotsay and Reed for some reason. Paired with Almonte, Nieves and 0-for-the-first-month Counsell, and that didn't leave Roenicke many options.

 

Regarding my earlier post, I don't want to come off as a Kotsay supporter, as I'd gladly like to see Boggs get a shot, and there's no way Kotsay should regularly start over Hart. However, to this point in the season, Kotsay has been decent offensively, and his getting one or two starts in CF over Boggs won't make much difference. If Gomez went down, and Kotsay became the regular CF, then I'd be very worried.

[endaround]

Morgan was on the team from day1. Roenicke played Kotsay over him.

[Ranier]

I think the "Y" thing is just a sports thing. Same thing with my coaches in hockey growing up. I'm pretty sure Brendan Shannahan gets called Shanny quite a bit as well. I'm sure there is others.

Gardenhire is the king of the 'Y'

[rluzinski]

I don't really care what Kotsay has done in 73 PA. If RR thinks he's a good option to start, I am scared of him.

[Thurston Fluff]

No it just removes those 3 PAs. Kotsay has gotten on base 25 times including the 3 IBB in 73 PAs. Looking at the other 70 PAs he got on 22 times for a current OBP of .314. Those IBB had nothing to do with Kotsay or how Kotsay is hitting.

 

I think just removing those ab's like they didn't exist is wrong. Do you think Gomez would have been walked in those situations? If you intend to take out one thing to make your point why not others? Why not start taking away singles that were hit poorly but found @#%%%%? Those are not indicative of how well someone is hitting are they? What about taking away any pitch that the pitcher made a mistake on? That doesn't show how good the hitter is. It shows how poor the pitcher was. If you manipulate the data by taking one aspect out while leaving others in seems like cherry picking to me. If you really want to show how well he's really hitting you have to go through each Ab and determine the reason for the outcome. Otherwise just accept the numbers as they are and get one with it.

[rluzinski]

IBB included or not, here is Kotsay's current line:

 

.246/.338/.277/.615 (74 PA)

 

This is what he's done the prior three years:

 

.263/.320/.391/.711

 

The guy is 35 years old. RR looking for ways to get him in the lineup (hinting at using him in CF!?) makes little sense.

 

Seems like Melvin has to get some over the hill OFer every year. Once and awhile they work out (Edmonds, Kapler) but most of the time they don't.

 

Can anyone list them all? Has to be a 30+ year old outfielder who hasn't been good in a couple of years. Some are hard to remember because they don't even make it out of spring training.

[TooLiveBrew]

Trot Nixon was another, fits the 'never made it out of ST' criterion

[Thurston Fluff]

Seems like Melvin has to get some over the hill OFer every year. Once and awhile they work out (Edmonds, Kapler) but most of the time they don't.

 

I think you are exaggerating. I get that you disagree with the approach. I just hope you are seeing his approach for what it really is. Otherwise how will you know for sure what you are disagreeing about?

He went with young bench guys sprinkled in throughout his time here. That number varies by what one calls young. There are older guys who are young major league experience wise like Clark and Podsednick. There are young like Brad Nelson, McGehee, Gamel and Gomez/Morgan. He routinely has a mix of all the above and sorts them out as we go along. This season was no different. Counsell and Kotsay along with Morgan, Almonte, Reed, Boggs etc. each season it seems like a different type of player did the best. No rhyme or reason to it, age or experience wise, as far as I can tell. Thus the mixed approach. Maybe he missed on Kotsay but that is not to say Boggs will be better in that role.

I get that you don't think Kotsay will be good for us. but that is different than saying RRR must think we are idiots or he's doing totally senseless things. Typically when I see that I just assume something is going on I am not aware of. with Kotsay I would assume several things are going on. One is he's getting to know his players abilities and what he can do to maximize their abilities later on. Another is something I see at the beginning of the year with pretty much every manager since Garner with Macha being the exception. They give the regulars more days off early so they are stronger later and the bench guys stay sharper to boot. Yet another is the injuries.

[Baldkin]

There was no reason for Kotsay to take 40 ABs away from Morgan, though.

 

That's where the fault lies.

[djoctagone]

kotsay is starting in center today.

[Ennder]

I feel bad for Randy Wolf, that has to be one of the worst defensive teams to ever take the field in a major league game.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Well, the nightmare came true. Wolf better be on his game today.

[logan82]

I believe Wolf is a flyball pitcher too. Flyball pitcher + horrible outfield defense = success?

[Thurston Fluff]

There was no reason for Kotsay to take 40 ABs away from Morgan, though.

 

That's where the fault lies.

 

Saying there is no reason is different than not knowing the reason. It's not just semantics either. If we just assume anyhting that we don't get is the manager doing somethign stupid then it stands to reason we will get a very skewed view of him. If we can figure out why he's doing it then we can make better assessments about his ability. The reason to take 40ab's away at this point could be because Morgan isn't a bench player anymore. Or any of the other reason's I listed and some I'm sure I never thought of. Morgan well get his and more. Kotsay will only ever be a bench player here and is used accordingly.

[rluzinski]

Kotsay starting in CF and batting 2nd. This is just inconceivable to me. I understand Gomez needing a day off but Kotsay is his first choice? Hart HAS played CF before. He's easily below average but at least he can cover some ground. Hell, flip Hart and Kotsay around in both fielding position AND batting order.

[Funketown]

Can we please start a Ron Roenicke rant thread? Why is Melvin okay with this Kotsay?

 

And to those who will say this is just one game and we shouldn't worry, at what point should we worry about Roenicke's decisions? Every stupid move like this decreases the expected number of games the Brewers win this season, and where the Brewers are right now they can't be throwing away games to this Kotsay.

 

Macha NEVER did anything near this stupid. He may have had the social skills of a fencepost, but the guy at least had some common sense.

[brwrsfan]

Boggs would seem to be a much better outfielder than Kotsay. Neither is hitting the ball well at all, but at least Boggs has some power and the edge in the field. Mark Kotsay in CF and in the 2 hole is one of the worst moves we could have possibly made. Throw in the .156 hitting Wil Nieves to the lineup and we're just destined to score today right?

[1992casey]

Can we please start a Ron Roenicke rant thread?

 

Let's not and say we did. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif Vents/rants are against the terms set in Fan Forum Etiquette.

 

Since Ned Yost left, we've been able to avoid asking members to funnel managerial discussion into a designated thread. It may come to the point where the mods decide that a designated Roenicke topic is necessary, but I don't think we've reached that yet.

[logan82]

Funketown wrote:

Macha NEVER did anything near this stupid. He may have had the social skills of a fencepost, but the guy at least had some common sense.

He did bat Kendal leadoff a few times.

[Funketown]

^Yeah, but this is like batting Kendall leadoff and having him play shortstop.