I Like Carlos Gomez

[fondybrewfan]

Com'n would it kill people to give Carlos some love every once a while? Yeah its only two weeks but it is something. His walk rate is up this year, he is stealing bases, and playing great defense. Obviously he has a long way to go, but he still is only 25 and at least IMO he has made solid progress. We could do much worse in CF than him. Its not his fault RR has him batting 2nd.

[Invader3K]

We could do much worse in CF than him. Its not his fault RR has him batting 2nd.

Agreed. I just don't get why he can't bat 7th or 8th, where his bat would look so much better (IMHO). I would say he has been slowly making progress as a batter, but his defense continues to be top notch.

[JohnBriggs12]

I actually do not have a problem with him batting 2nd. The Brewers simply do not have the ideal #2 hitter. True, Hart had some success hitting there in 2010 (.814 OPS), but Hart was actually much better in the 6th spot (1.091 OPS), and I like an RBI bat there.

 

Even though Gomez' OBP is relatively low, his walk rate this year is up. He also is very difficult to double up, so Weeks' getting on is rarely going to be negated by a double play. If Gomez grounds into a simple force out, it's not going to make his stats look good, but it gives them a guy who can still swipe a base and get into scoring position with Braun and Fielder hitting.

 

Gomez' enthusiasm for the game is refreshing too and over a long season, that's a positive.

[rluzinski]

Com'n would it kill people to give Carlos some love every once a while? Yeah its only two weeks but it is something. His walk rate is up this year, he is stealing bases, and playing great defense. Obviously he has a long way to go, but he still is only 25 and at least IMO he has made solid progress. We could do much worse in CF than him. Its not his fault RR has him batting 2nd.

Whenever we look at batting performance, we are generally asking two questions:

1. How well has the batter been performing recently and how has that helped his team win games?

2. What does his recent production tell us about his future expected production?

Carlos Gomez has hit .243/.349/.459/.808 in 37 AB in May and has played his usual, great defense in CF. I don't think anyone can fairly complain about his performance in May and over that two week period, it has not hurt the Brewers to bat him 2nd.

So far this season Carlos Gomez is batting .241/.298/.358/.656. That is almost exactly the same line he had last year. He has an updated ZiPS projection of .249/.304/.364/.668. While no one knows the future, Gomez continues to project to be a very poor batter who should be batting 8th on almost any team.

 

[rluzinski]

True, Hart had some success hitting there in 2010 (.814 OPS), but Hart was actually much better in the 6th spot (1.091 OPS), and I like an RBI bat there.

 

Looking at BOP splits are largely worthless (especially one season's worth!)

 

Even though Gomez' OBP is relatively low, his walk rate this year is up.

 

His walk rate is up a little from last year but his batting average is down. He has exactly the same OBP right now (.298) as he did last year.

 

He also is very difficult to double up, so Weeks' getting on is rarely going to be negated by a double play. If Gomez grounds into a simple force out, it's not going to make his stats look good, but it gives them a guy who can still swipe a base and get into scoring position with Braun and Fielder hitting.

 

If we have to start mentioning the fact that he usually only makes 1 out per AB as a positive.....

 

Gomez' enthusiasm for the game is refreshing too and over a long season, that's a positive.

 

Yes, baseball fans like to watch his style of baseball. It's a lot of fun, no question. That has nothing to do with his his actual value to the team, though.

[fondybrewfan]

TH was pretty blunt with RR about why Gomez is still batting 2nd after the game yesterday. RR didn't give much of a reason either. Panicking when you have RISP is not a good thing RR. Just move Hart or Lucroy up already

[UeckerAddict]

I've exhausted myself on this issue. How Carlos can hit second is indefensible and I will turn blue if I keep talking about it. This is some Baseball 101 stuff.

[rluzinski]

TH was pretty blunt with RR about why Gomez is still batting 2nd after the game yesterday. RR didn't give much of a reason either. Panicking when you have RISP is not a good thing RR. Just move Hart or Lucroy up already

After one of Lucroy's recent good games, RR was asked about moving him to 2B. He said something about how important the #8 batting position is and went on and on about what he SAW in Gomez in spring training. RR is just being stubborn at this point.

And to point out why some don't get too excited about small samples (2 weeks)... Before last night, Gomez was hitting .243/.349/.459/.808 in 37 AB in May. After one bad game, in now sits at .220/.333/.415/.748 in 41 AB. Another bad game tonight and we'll be talking about his poor May.

 

[homer]

RR is just being stubborn at this point.

RR certainly has some Yostian tendencies.

[rluzinski]

Just saw this:

 

"He is doing so well in that eight spot and really helping our offense that I would hate to do that," manager Ron Roenicke said about possibly moving Lucroy to the second spot.

 

Perhaps we should move Prince to #8 and really amp up the Brewer's run production!

 

Gomez is destined to bat 8th. It's only a matter of how long it takes. It really does seem like Gomez has been trying to take more pitches this year, so I think batting him there would help him continue developing that approach.

[1992casey]

RR was asked about moving him to 2B.

 

2B? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

RR certainly has some Yostian tendencies.

 

The difference I see is that Ned would absolutely know what the best move would be, then eschew it in favor of something inexplicable. I'm not convinced that Roenicke has a grasp of what the best moves are. His lineups are constructed in a pre-1990 fashion, for instance.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I saw that among all NL position players ranked by WAR, as of yesterday, Gomez is in at #30 at .9 WAR. The guy has been unbelievable on defense this year, but I just can't even imagine that his glove is saving THAT many runs above replacement, also taking into account his awful offensive 'contribution'. This is a huge reason defensive statistics need such a large sample size (some say 3 years) before they really become definative. And of course, even then, the methodology of compiling those stats is sketchy at best.

[endaround]

right now his defense is at 7.3 runs after the last update. Now that is likely too high but he'll likely be worth about 2 wins if he played full time (given the Brewers have Morgan he shouldn't). his current UZR/150 is 35.58 vs a career mark of 15.8. Morgan is at 17.3 for his career.

[DonMoney4Mgr]

I too am completely baffled at Gomez in the two hole. It seems like RR is determined to show such blind, over the top faith in this individual that somehow magically he will be rewarded in achieving something no one thought possible - willing Gomez to hit. Why doesn't anyone attack him directly on this issue at the post game pressers? When is Melvin going to step in and say, what the $%&%# are you doing?

[Fear The Chorizo]

plays like he made last night directly taking a run off the board have to skew the current defensive stats...for as horrible as Gomez was at the plate last night, he took a run away from the Dodgers and scored one of the 3 runs in the game. I'd love for him to get put where he belongs in the #8 spot in the lineup, because I think most all the criticism he gets stems from his manager hitting him in the wrong spot in the order. Getting Morgan back healthy should increase Gomez's value to this team even more, as long as RR gives Nyjer a fair # of starts in center and has Gomez available for pinch running/late inning defense.

 

I'd actually be thrilled if Gomez hit anywhere after #5 in the order when he starts...just somewhere not directly in between the 3 best hitters on the team.

[Oxy]

I too am completely baffled at Gomez in the two hole. It seems like RR is determined to show such blind, over the top faith in this individual that somehow magically he will be rewarded in achieving something no one thought possible - willing Gomez to hit. Why doesn't anyone attack him directly on this issue at the post game pressers? When is Melvin going to step in and say, what the $%&%# are you doing?

TH was awfully blunt in the post-game pressor yesterday, actually being a bit disrespectful by blurting out a sarcastic "yeah, ya think?" in response to Roencike talking about how some guys get anxious and are over-aggressive at the plate with RISP. It was after being directly asked about Gomez and how he has struggled in those spots.

[Klements Bratwurst]

Carlos Gomez has left 17 guys on base in his last three starts. 17! From the Journal Sentinal today, RR says that Carlos gets a little aggressive with guys on base:

 

"No. 2 hitter Carlos Gomez left eight men on base, striking out twice with RISP and grounding out the other time. Once again, I asked manager Ron Roenicke how he could continue to bat Gomez second when he constantly panics and strikes out on pitches out of the strike zone.

"He gets a little more aggressive in those situations," said Roenicke.

That's another way of saying he panics and swings at everything that comes at him with men on base. Roenicke said, "I'm comfortable with him on balls in the (strike) zone." That may be, but pitchers know they don't have to throw pitches in the strike zone, especially with two strikes. Roenicke says he doesn't want to move Jonathan Lucroy out of the No. 8 spot because he is thriving there but the fact remains that the Brewers would have scored countless more runs this season with a productive No. 2 hitter."

 

RR is comfortable with Gomez with balls in the strike zone. That is good to know. What manager isn't comfortable with any MLB player with pitches in the zone? I think RR is grasping at straws here trying defend his constant use of Gomez in the #2 hole. Maybe this three game stretch for Gomez has finally put a steak in the heart of the RR concept of keeping with Gomez in the #2 hole because of what he saw in Spring Training. He has got to see this too, right??? Or is he just too much of a player manager and won't remove Gomez until a much later point in the season? Can't we give Boggs some at bats until Morgan gets back???

 

 

[FVBrewerFan]

I think it's very simple. RR WANTS a guy in the #2 hole who is a good situational hitter (move runners over, hit and run, bunt etc.), get on base a lot, and give you speed on the base paths. He wants this so badly, he's blinded by the fact Gomez doesn't give you 2 of those 3 things, never has, and likely never will.

[greeg35]

Carlos Gomez has left 17 guys on base in his last three starts. 17!

Attacking what seems to be a small sample (no sample?) type move by RRR with another flawed small sample argument doesn't wash for me. However, the argument that Gomez is hitting about his career norms and his career norms happen to suck is a better one to move him out of a high PA slot like #2 works better IMO.

[markedman5]

Gomez is fast.......RR seems blinded by the old school thinking that you need fast guys at the top of the order.

 

 

Its just madening. Swap Lucroy and Gomez and be done with it already!

[Klements Bratwurst]

"Attacking what seems to be a small sample (no sample?) type move by RRR with another flawed small sample argument doesn't wash for me. However, the argument that Gomez is hitting about his career norms and his career norms happen to suck is a better one to move him out of a high PA slot like #2 works better IMO."

 

 

I am well aware of the small sample arguement around here for sure, but the pure set of hideous at bats Gomez has put up since last Friday has resulted IMO a stunning accomplishment of stranding 17 runners on base in just three games. His career norms do tell us he shouldn't be in the #2 hole, but these last three games of pop ups, check swing misses, and Rob Deer like whiffs should be the Grand Finale of the Carlos Gomez top of the order experiment resulting in the END OF IT.

[logan82]

The title of this thread should be "I Want To Like Carlos Gomez But Runnin' Ron Keeps Batting Him #2."

[geddymd73]

7 hits and 6 runs in his past 8 games. I don't think you can be that horrified by that.

The guy had an OBP of .333 this month, which is pretty good compared to his career.

The improvement is coming, slowly but surely. Its still to early to be fixating on averages yet.

Ron has to just keep putting him out there at #2, and not get sidetracked by the naysayers like the Journal Sentinel.

Frankly, the article is a bit disrespectful.

[Raw Biz]

7 hits and 6 runs in his past 8 games. I don't think you can be that horrified by that.

The guy had an OBP of .333 this month, which is pretty good compared to his career.

The improvement is coming, slowly but surely. Its still to early to be fixating on averages yet.

Ron has to just keep putting him out there at #2, and not get sidetracked by the naysayers like the Journal Sentinel.

Frankly, the article is a bit disrespectful.

Why does Roenicke have to keep putting him at #2? What has Gomez done in his career to justify that? I would consider myself a Gomez supporter (at least his defense and batting lower in the order) but there's no way he should be hitting second. I like that Haudricourt was blunt about telling Roenicke he shouldn't be there. Who knows, maybe he listened because Gomez is 8th tonight.

[1992casey]

When is Melvin going to step in and say, what the $%&%# are you doing?

 

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