Where is the Running Game?

[Hart Of Milwaukee]

Hey guys, I just blogged about how upset I am with the Brewers lack of a running game, despite all of Roenicke's talk this spring training that it would be more aggressive. Its called "Roenicke Needs to be a Man of His Word". Please check it out and let me know if you have a response/feedback.

 

http://bennylips.wordpres...ecome-a-man-of-his-word/

 

(EDIT: Replaced top-level blog link with permalink to post. That'll make it easier to find after more blog entries are added. --1992)

[danzig6767]

We already make to many outs at the plate, they don't need to add to it by making extra outs on the bases.

[Gobias Industries]

Easy answer: can't steal first base.

[adambr2]

We've already cost ourselves enough outs on the basepaths with this silly over-aggression philosophy, we don't need to compound the problem. Also, you have to be on base to attempt a steal.

[TooLiveBrew]

I just blogged about how upset I am with the Brewers lack of a running game, despite all of Roenicke's talk this spring training that it would be more aggressive.

No way! The manager said before the season that things were going to be different! Carlos Gomez! Erick Almonte!

 

I miss Macha. He could at least make out a lineup.

[jason21nl]

These guys can't even get on first base right now to even give them an opportunity to run. Like others mentioned, the aggressive base running have cost us multiple runs and outs this year. The on contact play drives me crazy.

[Hart Of Milwaukee]

danzig sorry I have never been fan of the we can't hit, so lets hope we get more hits approach. I admit though the stolen base is becoming a lost art. As far as other people mentioning you can't steal first, my counter argument is in the blog. Teams like the Padres and Rays have much worse obp. as a team and still are in the top 5 for stolen bases.

[derflotr]

I think the speed aspect of the team has been pretty overrated, honestly. At least in terms of stolen bases. Hart and Braun may run well but they definitely are not guys I'd trust to steal a base at will. Morgan and Gomez are probably the only two that I feel could swipe one with any kind of jump. Weeks is probably the best overall baserunner on the team, but rarely even attempts to steal because of where he is in the batting order. But they are definitely aggressive on the bases, I think Roenicke has pretty much applied his philosophy. Whether it's right for a team with a questionable baseball IQ is debatable, but that's not the point here.

[DougJones43]

I actually miss Macha a little as well. He seemed to have more common sense than a lot managers, and I think that's more important than having the players like you. He wasn't perfect, but I rarely found that he made logically indefensible strategic maneuvers the way Yost did and Roenicke does now.

 

Considering how bad the starting pitching was the last two years, it was actually quite a feat for those teams to win as many games as they did.

[bill hAll Star]

In the Yost/Macha/Roenicke comparisons I find it fairly easy:

 

Yost is a Cox disciple. He's going to ask for slightly aggressive moves, go on "feel", and shake the lineup up when things aren't going right. He was a somewhat likeable guy, but he wasn't Bobby Cox. Cox probably rarely had a "the ship is sinking" moment for his team to turn on him anyways, but that is why the guys turned on Yost.

 

Macha was basically an extension of Billy Beane. Say what you want, but most of his moves were great calculations. He wasn't under the wrath of Beane anymore so he'd switch it up a little bit sometimes.

 

Roenicke is a Scoscia guy. Likeable. Going to do some headscratching things that somehow find a way to fool the other team and you the viewer who thought it would fail. The difference is that Scoscia and Maddon (other disciple) had smarter players to work with and better guys to be aggressive and do off the wall things with. You can't do kooky shifts with our below-average defense. You can't run on contact with guys not named Weeks, Braun, Fielder, McGehee, or maybe LuCroy because more often than not, the guy at the plate is going to screw that up. Finally, you can't ask for aggressive baserunning because Gomez is incredibly fast but doesn't get it out there, McGehee/Fielder are too slow, Hart/Weeks/Braun are probably right for it aside from a random Braun blunder, and Yuni just really has neither going for him in the speed or baseball smarts category.

[owbc]

You can't do kooky shifts with our below-average defense.

I disagree. The shifts are the only thing preventing this defense from being completely abysmal. But you can't have a defense this terrible with so many contact pitchers in the rotation.

[pebadger]

Macha: Exhibit A in making the case that "chemistry" does matter, which is fairly ironic given the Beane connection.

[Funketown]

Macha: Exhibit A in making the case that "chemistry" does matter, which is fairly ironic given the Beane connection.

Jumping to this conclusion seems pretty unfair. I agree that teams benefit from having inviting clubhouses, but what does chemistry have to do with Trevor Hoffman imploding? Is a lack of chemistry the reason Braden Looper, Jeff Suppan, Manny Parra, and Dave Bush all had abysmal seasons in 2009?

 

Macha may have been out of touch with his clubhouse, but as far as managers go his decisions on the diamond were very good. Roenicke has shown himself to have little understanding of lineup construction or defensive performance. If Yost were making the decisions Roenicke is making we'd have even more people calling for his head.

 

With Gomez and Morgan in the 2-hole, having them steal is more often than not foolish.

[RockCoCougars]

Way too early to freak out about things, especially to the point of pining for Macha. As for the 'running game', as it was said above, you can't steal first. The offense has been absolutely atrocious. Does Bud Norris own these guys that much that he can mess them up for over a week? It's like he's the Soup for this decade or something. Hopefully they don't give him $40 some million when he hits free agency.

[pebadger]

Macha may have been out of touch with his clubhouse, but as far as managers go his decisions on the diamond were very good.

 

That's exactly the point. There is more to leadership than just making good decisions. With the right group, Macha would be fine. I think it's clear that Milwaukee's group simply wasn't the right roster for Macha. There seems to be something not yet fully mature with the makeup of this team from more than just a skills perspective. In a way I don't know that making the playoffs a couple of years ago was a 100% good thing for the group of guys that is still here from that team.

[Thurston Fluff]

It's going to take some time to transition from a station to station, play it safe, style to a take chances, base stealing type. Players not only have to get a feel for playing that way but also when to do so. Personally I don't care which way they play as long as they are set up to succeed that way. Given the team is built long term around Braun I think it makes sense to build to a more aggressive style. He seems to play better that way. Ditto for Plush and Weeks.

 

Yost is a Cox disciple. He's going to ask for slightly aggressive moves, go on "feel", and shake the lineup up when things aren't going right. He was a somewhat likeable guy, but he wasn't Bobby Cox. Cox probably rarely had a "the ship is sinking" moment for his team to turn on him anyways, but that is why the guys turned on Yost.

 

The only problem with that is the players never turned on Yost. After they made the playoffs a couple even publicly thanked him. It was the owner and fans who turned on him.

 

I miss Macha. He could at least make out a lineup.

 

I guess that shows how important that skill is to winning. But you are correct in that he was the best X's and O's in game and lineup wise.

[jeffy]

Macha: Exhibit A in making the case that "chemistry" does matter

 

On the contrary, the current manager who the players reportedly love, has a much better pitching staff and the rest of the team has little change, so if we continue to end up with no improvement or even worse results than under Macha that will be exhibit A in making the case that "chemistry" does not matter.

[RockCoCougars]

As evidenced by his work in KC, Yost is a good manager. My main issue with him here was that he couldn't handle the bullpen to save his life. As for Macha, I'd be shocked if he ever gets a MLB managerial job again. He's OK as far as his decision making goes, but his people skills are lacking in a big way. Obviously, the jury is still out on Roenicke, hopefully he can get the ship righted.

[greeg35]

I guess I'm in the camp that thinks managers don't make a huge difference and its probably best when you don't notice they are there. That said, they do make SOME difference, either positively or negatively and it would be nice to get a manager without some kind of major impediment:

Yost: defensive/stubborn

Macha: personality and communication ability of a wooden post

Roenicke: no clue how to properly use data to make decisions (at least offensively)

My least favorite pastime is watching people compare Yost to Macha to Roenicke, its like comparing dumb, dumber, and dumberer (or Betancourt to Escobar http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif ). I do not believe there are no good managers out there. Baseball just seems stuck in the "traditional" way of hiring. So lets keep RRR for the clubhouse chemistry and hire a computer to make our lineup and in-game decisions (or just rehire Macha for that part http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif ) Manager woahhs solvdd.

[logan82]

I have been saying for years we should replace our manager with a stack of spreadsheets. The in game decisions would at least make sense.

[TooLiveBrew]

Macha: personality and communication ability of a wooden post

 

Don't forget not being comfortable playing young players. Earlier in this thread, I said I missed Macha. I do miss his lineups & offensive gameplan. I don't miss his lack of ease with young players, as any manager of a mid- or small-market team is going to have to feel good about playing guys that are "unproven". Roenicke has had a lot of good things to say about several of the Brewers' AA & AAA players so far, which I find encouraging.