Southwest Airlines Buys AirTran

[jjgott]

The deal is closed: $1 billion dollar purchase. I must say I am a bit disappointed. For low cost airlines, the service on AirTran was pretty good and seemed to be on time for all the flights I took. Interesting to see what changes this will bring to the service on Southwest, if any.

[owbc]

I think the only change to Southwest is that they will no longer be flying all Boeing 737s as Airtran has some smaller planes also.

 

The biggest concern is that the prices are going to go up. Southwest and Airtran were generally the two lowest fare airlines out of Milwaukee, so combining them will cut out some of the competition. But for those who fly Southwest frequently, it is going to add many new destinations.

 

Personally, the biggest loss is that it will also probably mean the loss of Airtran's cheap nonstop flight from Milwaukee to Ft. Lauderdale which is quite convenient since every other flight requires a stop and/or plane change.

[brwrsfan]

Does Airtran fly to MN? It's very annoying that Southwest doesn't as I have to go there quite often. That could be nice if they would start offering low fares to MN from Milwaukee.

[And That]

Yes, Airtran flies to the international airport in the Twin Cities.

[carniesandrubes]

AirTran's business class product was very nice, but that is going away as well so Southwest can cram more cattle in the cabin...

[RockCoCougars]

This sucks. There is a reason for the nickname 'Southworst'. AirTran was always pretty dependable for a good price. Look for diminished services and higher prices overall.

[theavrock]

I have heard a lot about the hate for Southwest, but I have yet to experience it and I fly them all the time for business and for pleasure. In the past year I have probably flown them no less than 20 times and I have had nothing but good things to say about them.

I was pretty excited to hear about this, because it means I'll have more destinations.

[hawing]

So this means another set of sponsor changes at Miller Park?

[DHonks]

I am disappointed this merger happened. Southwest is clearly not a low fare airline anymore, and reducing one of the few airlines with a business model that could compete with them will only let their prices rise.

 

What amazes me is how loyal some people are about Southwest. They all adamantly claim that Southwest is a discount airline, yet every time I've looked their price is equaled or bettered by USAirways or others. I think Southwest is living on its reputation from about a decade ago.

[owbc]

If you check bags, Southwest is almost always the cheapest. But Airtran was doing a good job of keeping pace with them. Which probably explains the purchase.

 

Eventually they will all have to start paying out retirement packages to their long term employees, which will result in some currently unknown airline taking over the "low cost" tag.

[theavrock]

I am disappointed this merger happened. Southwest is clearly not a low fare airline anymore, and reducing one of the few airlines with a business model that could compete with them will only let their prices rise.

 

What amazes me is how loyal some people are about Southwest. They all adamantly claim that Southwest is a discount airline, yet every time I've looked their price is equaled or bettered by USAirways or others. I think Southwest is living on its reputation from about a decade ago.

It depends on where you fly from I suppose.

I fly out of ABQ these days and Southwest is always cheaper. I fly primarily to MKE and Dallas, but I have done trips to Portland, Phoenix and New Orleans recently and Southwest has always been the cheapest.

I am sure they are no longer as much of a discount airline as they once were but I still find them to be very reasonable.

On top of that the flights are always on time, the airline personal friendly and I don't mind the cattle call (I do always check in online exactly 24 hours in advance though so I am always in the A group). Not sure if people just don't know about this or are too lazy to do it. They are easy to do business with (no fee to change, no baggage fees) and I love their website.\

All of these things added up along with an always reasonable price give me no reason to go elsewhere unless prices are very different.

 

[DHonks]

I fly out of Phoenix, and it's always comparably priced. I'd much rather have a seat assignment. If I'm flying somewhere USAirways doesn't go, I fly Delta since I get free upgrades, fly convenient regional jets, and the bags are also free (although the only bag I ever bring is my golf clubs...the rest can travel in the cabin).

 

Back to the point...I think this merger may not be good for the airline industry and consumers. Plus, I'll miss the Airtran commercials, even though I've never flown them. The hot tubs on an airplane commercial was classic

[dadofandrew]

I never fly, but Southwest offers that $49 anywhere deal often enough that the wife and I take notice. I like Southwest just because they don't suck up...their reality show years ago showed them telling customers they were out of luck numerous times, with little sympathy.

[rwa12]

I'm a loyal Southwest customer as well. They are typically the cheapest out of STL, maybe because they have their own terminal. If you buy a month or two in advance, it is hard to beat their price. I always check bags, and don't feel the need to pay extra to bring luggage with me on a trip.

[LouisEly]

I am disappointed this merger happened. Southwest is clearly not a low fare airline anymore, and reducing one of the few airlines with a business model that could compete with them will only let their prices rise.

 

What amazes me is how loyal some people are about Southwest. They all adamantly claim that Southwest is a discount airline, yet every time I've looked their price is equaled or bettered by USAirways or others. I think Southwest is living on its reputation from about a decade ago.

It's about marketing. They were the first to advertise fares divided in half as "each way" and in the fine print said it was Tuesdays & Wednesdays at least 21 days in advance with limited seats available and that it did not include taxes and airport fees. When you added up the cost of each segment plus taxes and airport fees on the same days and times it is no different than any other airline. It's just that other airlines showed you the complete cost with taxes & airport fees which appear to be more expensive, and Southwest never published their fares anywhere except their website so you couldn't directly compare their fares to other airlines at the same place. As for free checked bags... if you are a frequent flier on any airline you get two free checked bags. I get two free bags on United/Continental and American. If you rarely fly and are going somewhere in the U.S. and are bringing a lot of stuff with you then you might save some money here, I'll grant that.

 

The thing that I hate about Southwest is no reserved seats. I don't want to have to line up a half hour before the flight boards to get a shot at a better seat - my time is worth something. At 6'3", 220, with broad shoulders I will pay more for an aisle seat. Plus on United they have Economy Plus with 5" extra legroom (36" seat pitch instead of 31"). It's a free-for-all getting on the plane. If I was a small or average size person I probably wouldn't mind a window or even a middle seat but not at my size.

 

So if you are a small or average sized person, don't fly frequently, bring a lot of stuff with you, and only travel domestically then Southwest is probably fine. But that does not fit my travel profile at all.

[theavrock]

I am disappointed this merger happened. Southwest is clearly not a low fare airline anymore, and reducing one of the few airlines with a business model that could compete with them will only let their prices rise.

 

What amazes me is how loyal some people are about Southwest. They all adamantly claim that Southwest is a discount airline, yet every time I've looked their price is equaled or bettered by USAirways or others. I think Southwest is living on its reputation from about a decade ago.

The thing that I hate about Southwest is no reserved seats. I don't want to have to line up a half hour before the flight boards to get a shot at a better seat - my time is worth something. At 6'3", 220, with broad shoulders I will pay more for an aisle seat. Plus on United they have Economy Plus with 5" extra legroom (36" seat pitch instead of 31"). It's a free-for-all getting on the plane. If I was a small or average size person I probably wouldn't mind a window or even a middle seat but not at my size.

So if you are a small or average sized person, don't fly frequently, bring a lot of stuff with you, and only travel domestically then Southwest is probably fine. But that does not fit my travel profile at all.

I feel like I am turning in to a SW fan boy, but I have to point out some of the mistakes here.

There is no lining up a half hour before the flight boards. You are assigned a position in line and based on that position is when you board the plane. Once you are on the plane you can sit anywhere you like. So some may ask how do you get the early position in line you would ask? Its all about when you check in. You can check in anytime within 24 hours from the time of your flight online. I always check in ASAP and always am in the first 15-45 people boarding, gaining me my aisle seat. If you fly frequently (should be getting there after my next flight), you earn frequent status where you are automatically checked in putting you even further ahead of the group.

I am neither small or average, I fly frequently, never check a bag and I love SW.

 

I will admit I was initially turned off by the "cattle call" as some like to refer to it, but once I figured out the check in early thing I haven't looked back.

For me the simple fact that an airline is willing to drop baggage fees and change fees was enough to make me look at them and now I love the product they put out.

[PKBadger]

Love Southwest. And everything theavrock wrote is accurate.

 

The no change fees thing is clutch. Also, if you miss a flight for some reason, you keep the credit and can put it toward a future flight. Don't even have to call and talk to anyone - just plug in your purchase code on the website when you're buying a new ticket. Case in point: I bought my Rose Bowl flight before the Badgers were even locked in to the game. If they didn't make it, no big deal - would have just used the credit on a future flight without having to pay extra.

[LouisEly]

It's a combination of status and when you check in. And I'll take the extra 5" of leg room on United, the movies/video on Continental, the TV on Jet Blue, the internet on Delta or Virgin America, the ability to pre-select the emergency exit row on American, or the ability to use the miles I've accrued on any of them (except Jet Blue) towards a ticket to or an upgrade to business class on a flight to Europe, Asia, Australia, or South America (and Jet Blue can take you to the Caribbean) over free bags which I don't get charged for anyway and a maybe-I'll-get-an-aisle-seat, maybe-I-won't.

[PKBadger]

There are perks for being a frequent flyer? Who knew?

 

I average about a flight every two months (out of my own pocket), which is probably more than 90% of the population but leaves me crawling at a snail's pace up each airline's loyalty program. I have a snowball's chance in hell of earning an upgrade. I'm lucky if they give me a full can of soda. So basically, they earn no loyalty from me. There are just some I like more than others. Southwest, Delta and Frontier have generally been OK. The legroom on my last United flight was laughable. US Airways? Never again if I have a choice.

[theavrock]

It's a combination of status and when you check in. And I'll take the extra 5" of leg room on United, the movies/video on Continental, the TV on Jet Blue, the internet on Delta or Virgin America, the ability to pre-select the emergency exit row on American, or the ability to use the miles I've accrued on any of them (except Jet Blue) towards a ticket to or an upgrade to business class on a flight to Europe, Asia, Australia, or South America (and Jet Blue can take you to the Caribbean) over free bags which I don't get charged for anyway and a maybe-I'll-get-an-aisle-seat, maybe-I-won't.

You're grasping at straws here. And you keep ignoring the no change fee. Even as someone who obviously is not a Southwest fan, you have to admit that's a nice thing to have.

The "maybe ill get an aisle seat maybe I won't" couldn't be further from the truth. If you fly frequently Southwest checks you in and puts you at the front of the line. Status always trumps when you check in (just like with every airline), so no its not a combination of status and check in time. Even if you don't fly frequently, you can check in early (as I have mentioned multiple times) and you will get a window or an aisle. The only people that don't are those that wait to check in until they get to the airport and we are all smarter than that right?

You're right if you're flying out of the US Southwest probably isn't your bag, most of the country isn't as interested in the international jetsetting you appear to be. Also the features you mentioned are either only available for a fee or to elite/frequent flyer members. Great for people who fly a lot but not for most of the country that does not.

To each his own I suppose, but I'll stand by my statement that Southwest is a great value for most of the flying community and even some of us who fly frequently are fans.

[DHonks]

I will say the "no fees" seem nice. I normally wouldn't think of changing my flights, though.

[RockCoCougars]

Mergers/acquisitions/takeovers are basically never a good thing for consumers. Southwest is 'low fare' if you want to fly at an odd time and book months ahead of time (to get the 'advertised' prices). Otherwise, I've never found them any cheaper than the other airlines. It will be interesting to see if they start cutting destinations as Frontier has been doing. I wonder if they will try to consolidate things toward Midway where they have made significant investments. In my view, this is a bad thing for those who fly out of Milwaukee, just as the Frontier acquisition was.

[LouisEly]

You're grasping at straws here. And you keep ignoring the no change fee. Even as someone who obviously is not a Southwest fan, you have to admit that's a nice thing to have.

 

The "maybe ill get an aisle seat maybe I won't" couldn't be further from the truth. If you fly frequently Southwest checks you in and puts you at the front of the line.

 

If I'm grasping at straws, you are grasping at them too because you have not acknowledged the extra 5" of leg room in Economy Plus on United, the free movies/video on Continental, the TV and extra leg room on Jet Blue, the internet on (some flights with) American, and the internet/TV on Delta and Virgin America. Southwest has none of those. You get two free checked bags on all of those airlines if you have status even at the lowest level, but the only time I usually check a bag is the once or twice a year I bring my golf clubs with me somewhere. And when I book a flight I know for sure whether or not I have an aisle seat, even if I don't have status like the Delta flight I took a few weeks ago - I don't have status on Delta but was able to book an aisle seat towards the back of the plane by checking the seating map when I booked. When you fly cross-country a lot those things have a lot more value to me than the rare occasion that I would need to change a flight.

 

If I had a career where I had a lot of uncertainty with my schedule or wanted to book a flight in advance to a sporting event that my team may or may not participate in then I could definitely see the value of a no change fee. But it's also nice to have the comfort of leg room (being 6'3") and/or entertainment without having to bring anything extra with you when you have 4-5 hours to kill. Being able to watch the Brewers-Phillies game and see them beat Halladay on my Delta flight was a great way to spend a good chunk of my flight from Atlanta to LA.

 

That's the beauty of the airline industry - each airline is customizing their product to meet certain segments of the market so that all travelers needs are met.

[DHonks]

http://finance.yahoo.com/...st-discount-airlines-wsj

 

This new article supports what many of us have said--that Southwest simply is no longer a low fare carrier.

[thablingster]

That's unfortunate. I'd started to lean on AirTran for my flying needs after Midwest started to go down. The business class upgrades were great (and actually a pretty good deal when you factor in bag fees that are waived when you upgrade). I'm also a fairly large traveler, so I enjoyed the convenience of reasonable pricing and ample seating.