Prince wants to stay

[rluzinski]

A run saved on defense is worth more than a run scored on offense? If it's the 6th run scored vs. the 4th run saved, sure. But a run is a run, otherwise.

 

Overall I agree but to be fair I think last year showed how an very unbalanced team isn't as good as it's sum total. I would rather have an average offense/defense and pitching than have one aspect top rated and others bottom feeders even if the sum total would be average out the same overall. I think that is where UQU's reasoning comes from.

I agree. If 4.5 runs per game is average, Scoring that 6th run is less valuable than keeping that 5th run from scoring. When we are talking long term signings of pending free agents, its rather difficult to project those sorts of things, however. I wouldn't NOT sign Fielder because we'll have enough offense in 2013.

[jeffy]

I don't know, Carlos Lee doesn't seem to get boos...

 

 

Yes, he does. I was there Friday and he was booed. It is idiotic, but it happens.

[jjkoestler]

Not to get too far off topic, but I cannot see how anyone could possibly boo Carlos Lee. Not only did he play very well in Milwaukee, but he appears to be the friendliest and most easy going guy in baseball. The man is constantly smiling!

[danzig6767]

It's in the Brewers best interest to move forward with contract extensions to Greinke and/or Marcum. We've seen this year that good pitching on a team is much more important than a stacked lineup (see 2010 results).

What does that mean, exactly? A run saved on defense is worth more than a run scored on offense? If it's the 6th run scored vs. the 4th run saved, sure. But a run is a run, otherwise.

I understand your premise, but a bad rotation also can really tax a bullpen and thus make an overall pitching staff even worse. Besides the wear on a bullpen of having to pick up so many innings when a rotation is bad, it also forces a manager to use his weaker bullpen pitchers more often.

 

When starters are leaving the game to early to often, the manager has to use the middle relievers/long reliever more often in an effort to eat up innings and not burn out their end of the pen guys who usually are better.

[berniebrewer4life]

Not to get too far off topic, but I cannot see how anyone could possibly boo Carlos Lee. Not only did he play very well in Milwaukee, but he appears to be the friendliest and most easy going guy in baseball. The man is constantly smiling!

I tried to dislike him after he signed with the astros, but i couldn't do it. Too nice of a guy, and he seems like a ton of fun. I still cheer for him(just not against us)

[RockCoCougars]

I know that Lee was booed heavily his first year with the Astros. There aren't many former Brewers who receive a warm welcome on their return to Milwaukee. Even Molitor had a mixed response at first, and later I remember going to a post-strike game ('95 I think) where the (quite small) crowd was particularly brutal to him. I'm guessing that if Prince went to a rival, he'd be pretty much booed out of the stadium.

[djoctagone]

Even Molitor had a mixed response at first, and later I remember going to a post-strike game ('95 I think) where the (quite small) crowd was particularly brutal to him.

not sure which game it was, but a fan was asked to remove his sign expressing his feelings about molitor, and he also may have been escorted from county stadium. what did the sign say?

 

money

over

loyalty

is

the

only

reason

[MJLiverock]

I've never understood the booing of former players unless the guy was a jerk or he took the same or less money to play elsewhere just to get out of Milwaukee. Lee played well, and got offered stupid money after he was traded, nothing I could get to upset about. Are people going to boo Overbay because he got traded to make room for Prince?

 

You know Prince will get booed if he signs some 7 year $200MM deal elsewhere, but I can't fault him if the Brewers "only" offered up something like 5 years $100MM. The guy played hard, did well, and never said a bad thing about Milwaukee.

 

There is probably somebody out there who will boo Capuano if he pitches in Miller Park for the Mets.

[Invader3K]

I think a lot of times the booing isn't really malicious. More like a razzing of sorts.

[derflotr]

I feel like most people are ready to move on from Prince, but if he'd be willing to take a 3-4 year deal I wouldn't care about the dollar amount. Now, there's no reason to believe that that's close to possible, but my point is that the only question surrounding Prince Fielder is his longevity. I realize he's still young, but he's never missed any significant time to injury - even with that body - despite playing with the enthusiasm of a 12 year old at the level of a potential hall-of-famer.

 

The energy and effort he exhibits every single game is something you just don't see out of players like him. It sounds watered-down and cliched but it's absolutely true. Has the guy ever not been completely focused regardless of the situation? I don't know how to quantify that into dollar value but it definitely counts for something. Any employer puts a tremendous priority on work ethic and attitude.

 

The good thing is that I think the Brewers have adequately prepared themselves for his departure, but the fact that he's absolutely irreplaceable saddens me. But until he's gone for sure I'll be crossing my fingers.

[rluzinski]

It's in the Brewers best interest to move forward with contract extensions to Greinke and/or Marcum. We've seen this year that good pitching on a team is much more important than a stacked lineup (see 2010 results).

What does that mean, exactly? A run saved on defense is worth more than a run scored on offense? If it's the 6th run scored vs. the 4th run saved, sure. But a run is a run, otherwise.

I understand your premise, but a bad rotation also can really tax a bullpen and thus make an overall pitching staff even worse. Besides the wear on a bullpen of having to pick up so many innings when a rotation is bad, it also forces a manager to use his weaker bullpen pitchers more often.

 

When starters are leaving the game to early to often, the manager has to use the middle relievers/long reliever more often in an effort to eat up innings and not burn out their end of the pen guys who usually are better.

I guess I don't see it that way. You have a group of pitchers that you project their ERA for, weighted by IP. If they are bad, they are bad. If you have to use your middle and long relievers more often, it's because they are perceived as being the better option over the starter who just got yanked.

[Ennder]

I definitely think a bad rotation makes your bullpen worse as well. I tend to think people underrate the impact of defense in general so I tend to think poor defensive players probably aren't as valuable as things like WAR suggest. It doesn't help that it is so hard to pinpoint the effects of defense.

[rluzinski]

The point is, the more expected IP for your relievers isn't some hidden, secondary cost. You aren't paying for a starting pitcher's ERA, you are paying for his ERA for a certain number of IP. Take two starting pitchers with the same projected ERA, You will roughly pay 1/5th more for the starter that can go 6 IP vs.the one that averages 5. If you go with the 5 IP guy, perhaps you beef up the bullpen (find a guy who can go two innings) or for upgrading your offense. In the end, you should be paying the same amount for runs saved or produced over average for whatever, though.

 

Also, I think the extra strain on the bullpen from having a bad rotation might be overstated. Last year, starters in the NL averaged 66% of the total IP. Brewer starters had the second worst starting ERA (4.65) and they pitched 64% of the Brewers total innings. That's 35 extra innings over 162 games, or 1 extra IP every 4 or 5 games.