Some people need to say they are sorry to RRR

[1992casey]

Carlos has two options left. Because of his service time, he'd have to be exposed to waivers to be optioned. But since those waivers can be revoked, it's not likely that an attempt to send him to AAA would be blocked. Designating him for assignment would be unnecessary.

[danzig6767]

exactly fellas. It seems like he pops up lots of bunts as well. He reminds me of a much more toolsy version of Alex Sanchez when at the plate. Sanchez really did nothing for us...he couldn't bunt and refused to. But then a few years later with Detroit he led the league in infield hits, with many of them being bunts.

 

Gomez really needs AAA...I wonder if we DFA'd him to get him to AAA, if anyone would actually claim him. In AAA I'd almost be tempted to let him try being a power hitter....bat him 4th. Either he adapts and thrives, or fails miserably. But expecting he can be a legit 1 or 2 hitter is foolish. Best case scenario would be that he learns to draw a few walks and becomes a Cameron-like 20-homer defensive whiz. Worst case is that we're at least grateful he's not wasting a roster spot

Gomez will never become a 20 homer or more type of hitter. You can't will or teach the ability to consistently hit that many homers, especially with a guy who constantly swings at bad pitches and gets himself behind in the count so often.

 

I strongly doubt that there is much hope for Gomez to improve significantly as a hitter. Baseball history has shown that except for pretty rare instances, guys with a terrible approach at the plate either stay that way their whole career or only improve at it slightly.

 

He's so skilled defensively though at a premium position that it should allow Gomez to stay in the league at the very least until his athletic ability lessens enough to remove his value defensively because he has to be more than just pretty good in CF to stay on big league rosters, be it starting or on the bench.

[TracyThom]

I'm to the point where I avoid the IGT. There is so much negativity, pessimism, and knee-jerk reactions that it is disturbing. I get it, people don't like Gomez batting second. You hate the defensive shifts. YuniB has no range and shouldn't swing at the first pitch. Almonte shouldn't be on the roster. Kotsay and Nieves are worthless. Did I miss anything?

 

The Phillies were 10-3 before the series started and the Crew have taken the first two. Also, our pitching staff only gave up 2 hits in last night's game. Oh yeah, the Brewers are in first place. How about some positivity?

[RobDeer 45]

Well sad TracyThom. I started this thread as kind of a joke, and I prob looked at Sunday's thread, and really just looked at the first page. Let's keep cheering them on and hope that RRR continues to better himself as a manager. I think it will be easier for him to do so when he gets his full roster back (wink wink).

[JohnBriggs12]

You bat Gomez 2nd because he's an impatient hitter and where are you going to get more pitches to hit than batting in front of Braun and Fielder? Plus, other than Morgan, nobody else is a ideal #2 hitter. So far, he hasn't bee able to take advantage of that spot, but we're only 10% into the season. In 2010, when batting 2nd, Gomez hit .272/.303/.404. Those are all above his career norms. I would expect once Morgan is fully healthy and Hart is back, we'll see more or less a platoon with Morgan and Gomez in CF. I'm not convinced it's cinch Hart bats 2nd either. Hart was more productive batting 6th (1.091 OPS) last year than he was hitting 2nd (.814), and they could use a little thunder down in the order a bit.

 

As for Kotsay, give me a break. He's been ok as a fill in. His OBP is a respectable .342. Since he started 0 for 9, he's 7 for 23. He's made contact (just 3 K in 32 AB's). We're talking about a guy with over 1,600 career hits with significant postseason experience. He's near the end of his career but he's a useful bench guy.

 

One worry for me is Counsell. He didn't hit in Arizona and he's 1 for 14. Not good signs for a guy who'll be 41 in August.

 

While I haven't agreed with every Roenicke move, the players seem to respect him and I see a lot of positive signs. Seventeen games in is not the time for evaluation. Every move a manager makes isn't going to work.

[rluzinski]

You bat Gomez 2nd because he's an impatient hitter and where are you going to get more pitches to hit than batting in front of Braun and Fielder?

 

I realize that is the traditional line of thinking (and it wouldn't surprise me if RR is thinking the same thing) but I don't believe the evidence backs that theory up. The evidence shows that a pitcher's approach to a batter is largely independent of who bats next. If Gomez is getting one extra fastball every 4 AB (wish I had the data in front of me but it was along those lines), why would that be worth giving him an extra 90 AB on the year (batting him 7th instead of 2nd)? I don't think it's even close.

 

In 2010, when batting 2nd, Gomez hit .272/.303/.404.

 

You abuse stats more than anyone else on these boards. Cherry pick after cherry pick. Let's look at his BOP splits from 2010:

 

http://www.baseball-refer...ca01&year=2010&t=b#lineu

 

Ignoring that all these samples are so small as to render them completely useless, Gomez actually hit better in the 7th spot last year. Based on that, I think it's obvious that he thrives there as a batter!

[Thurston Fluff]

Seems like RR has an idea of what he'd like Gomez to be so he tries to fit the square peg into a round hole. The job of a manager is to make the most of what you have; not pretend that you can mold what you into what you want.

 

Not so sure he's the one trying to make a square peg fit a round hole. I think Gomez is the one who doesn't use his tools correctly. He has speed and no plate discipline. That seems to be the perfect guy to bunt more. Maybe he isn't good at it yet but what is he good at offensively? Since he's a work in progress why not make the work something that has a shot of being productive sooner than later?

[MVP2110]

Agreed TracyThorn. The Brewers have a really good team this year. have 4 shutouts already and a very dangerous lineup. Sure there are a few weaknesses but Yuni has hit decent enough for me so far this year to justify him over counsell for now, (atleast until we can make a move in the summer), and gomez's defense has looked really good so far as well. The only player I don't like in the starting lineup is Kotsay but he will go back to being a bench player when Hart comes back and I wouldn't mind Kotsay as a bench player. As for the #2 spot in the lineup. I personally would rather have Hart bat 6th and make our lineup more balanced instead of top heavy. Put a Morgan/Gomez platoon there the rest of the season.

[fondybrewfan]

I have really liked RR so far. Obviously he has not been perfect but in general I think he has done alright. As he gets more experience I think is bullpen usage substitution strategies will be improved. The problem right now is that he has very limited choices when filling out his lineup card. He has to play Gomez every day and he has to play Kotsay or Almonte every day. When you have to huge holes it creates unavoidable line up problems.

 

Going into April everyone was just hoping to be .500 coming out of this month; well we are 9-8 right now with 5 games against Houston and 3 against the struggling Reds. Everyone should be very happy where we are and I think RR deserves some credit for keeping the boat from sinking.

[Thurston Fluff]

I think Ron needs to have some time to learn his players before critiquing his use of them. As far as bench players like Kotsay goes sure they have warts. If they could hit for power, get on base well and field they would be starters. I think bench guys need to do somethign well and Kotsay has got on base at a decent clip so far. I also think bench players need to play some or they will be useless when we do need them. So I'm willing to give some leeway to Ron at this point.

So far the worst of the last three managers was the one who was the best in game as well as lineup selection and batting order. I think how a manager handles players and personalities is far more important than the above mentioned abilities. Given the strengths and weaknesses of our last three managers that belief has only increased.

[rluzinski]

Seems like RR has an idea of what he'd like Gomez to be so he tries to fit the square peg into a round hole. The job of a manager is to make the most of what you have; not pretend that you can mold what you into what you want.

 

Not so sure he's the one trying to make a square peg fit a round hole. I think Gomez is the one who doesn't use his tools correctly. He has speed and no plate discipline.

My point is that just because he's fast doesn't mean he can effectively bunt for base hits. You have to be able to actually bunt well to do that. For a guy who isn't a very good hitter, to lose even one strike on a foul bunt is going to crush his offensive numbers. Don't get me wrong, making the corners have to cheat in has it's benefit but unless Gomez can get bunts down for hits a fair amount of time, it's counterproductive.

As for who is motivating him to bunt... it seems like he is attempting them A LOT more this year (although I have no evidence to back that up with). Couple that with Gomez's supposed new approach and it certainly seems to me like RR and company are trying to reinvent him.

 

[logan82]

It seems like 3B and 1B are playing at least even with the bases for Gomez. Most of the time at the edge of the infield grass. I don't think he should be bunting if they are playing in. He has a much better chance to bunt for a hit if they play back.

[Ennder]

Gomez bunted constantly his rookie year with the Twins and had pretty good success with it. He had 30 bunt hits in 2008.

[danzig6767]

As for Kotsay, give me a break. He's been ok as a fill in. His OBP is a respectable .342. Since he started 0 for 9, he's 7 for 23. He's made contact (just 3 K in 32 AB's). We're talking about a guy with over 1,600 career hits with significant postseason experience. He's near the end of his career but he's a useful bench guy.

Part of why his OBP is respectable is that three of his six walks have been intentional for some bizarre reason. In the extra innings win alone vs Philly, they intentionally walked him twice to face Lucroy.

 

While i'd rather not have Kotsay on the roster, once Hart gets back and Morgan is healthy, he should go to a role of almost entirely just pinch hitting. That i'm reasonably ok with. With Hart being out though, the mostly Kotsay/Almonte platoon in RF has been really weak.

 

Once Hart gets back, if Doug would DFA both Almonte/Neives and add Hart/Boggs, i'll like the overall makeup of the team better. Plus, we'll also be getting Morgan back soon. The bench will be to lefthanded dominated for my tastes, but overall the 25 man roster would be much nicer than the one we broke camp with. Then soon after that Greinke will be added. I'm so looking forward to a healthy roster.

[rluzinski]

Gomez bunted constantly his rookie year with the Twins and had pretty good success with it. He had 30 bunt hits in 2008.

Without knowing how many attempts that took, all I can look at his line and it was terrible. Would it have been worse without the bunt attempts? Perhaps. But whatever attempt he was using overall did not result in good offensive production. Hell, it looks like when he wasn't bunting he actually hit for a little power. I think he really might be better off batting lower in the lineup and swinging away. If he's going to have a bad OBP anyway, might as well try and hit for power?

[mothershipconnection]

I strongly doubt that there is much hope for Gomez to improve significantly as a hitter. Baseball history has shown that except for pretty rare instances, guys with a terrible approach at the plate either stay that way their whole career or only improve at it slightly.

 

Anybody else think Gomez would've been an all-star in the steroid era? Dude's a power hitter without power who plays awesome D and runs like the wind. Roids could've put a few more feet on those fly outs.

[Ennder]

I wasn't suggesting he needs to try to bunt for hits more, just was saying he has bunted a lot in the past so it isn't something new for him. I like the bunt for hit approach when it doubles as a sac bunt. I like it against weak defensive players etc, basically situations that increase your chances above the norm.

[TooLiveBrew]

Anybody else think Gomez would've been an all-star in the steroid era? Dude's a power hitter without power who plays awesome D and runs like the wind. Roids could've put a few more feet on those fly outs.

 

He's not without power, he's without contact ability. I think he would have still sucked in the 'roids era', even though I don't think that PED abuse is over by any stretch of the imagination.

[Thurston Fluff]

My point is that just because he's fast doesn't mean he can effectively bunt for base hits. You have to be able to actually bunt well to do that. For a guy who isn't a very good hitter, to lose even one strike on a foul bunt is going to crush his offensive numbers. Don't get me wrong, making the corners have to cheat in has it's benefit but unless Gomez can get bunts down for hits a fair amount of time, it's counterproductive.

 

With Gomez losing one strike is irrelevant. He's going to swing at bad pitches early and often. At best they become strikes at worst flyballs or grounders. So if you have a guy who is always going to be swinging at balls and is always going to be in 0-2, 1-2 counts why not have him get strike one bunting instead of swinging and missing or getting flyball outs? Yes, he occasionally gets extra base hits on those early swings. IIRC you once brought up a study that showed OBP created slightly more run production than SLG. IF that's true why wouldn't a slight uptick in OBP be a better way to cover his weakness than hoping he slugs well enough to make up for the low OBP?

[rluzinski]

I wasn't suggesting he needs to try to bunt for hits more, just was saying he has bunted a lot in the past so it isn't something new for him. I like the bunt for hit approach when it doubles as a sac bunt. I like it against weak defensive players etc, basically situations that increase your chances above the norm.

But the question isn't whether he's done it before; it's whether he's good at it.

[The Truth]

Gomez' approach at the plate is generally dismal. What makes it worse is that we have other players often in the lineup in the lineup who take even worse approaches or are even more overmatched by MLB pitching (Betancourt, Nieves, Almonte). Add to that a clearly over the hill Kotsay and it is no wonder that we are sitting at .500 despite having much improved starting pitching & fantastic starts by Braun & Fielder

 

Hart and Morgan getting healthy and available will help alot

[Marc Newfield of Dreams]

Ahem-

 

@howiemag: And so there's no mistake, Roenicke said Betancourt is going home on any ground ball there.

 

I will apologize for nothing after reading that. Ron needs his head checked.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Ahem-

 

@howiemag: And so there's no mistake, Roenicke said Betancourt is going home on any ground ball there.

 

I will apologize for nothing after reading that. Ron needs his head checked.

Actually, it's the right play to go home on that. It keeps you out of the double play, and you score if they misplay it at all. Also, the runner from first should be able to get to third anyway, which Lucroy stupidly didn't. I don't fault the call to send the runner home at all.

[Marc Newfield of Dreams]

First of all, there's no way they get two on that ball. Might not have even gotten Lucroy at second. Chances are they take the safe out at first. If Yuni stays put, that's 2nd and 3rd, one out. No double play possible. What gives you a better chance for a big inning? First and second, one out or second and third, one out?

[PrinceEatMeat]

Well, you have no idea where the ball will end up on the contact play. If the ball is hit into a double play situation they would either throw home or allow the run to score, which is why the contact play was put on there. It has it's drawbacks yes, but overall it is a good play to put on in that situation. Especially, with a hitter like Almonte at the plate. He is susceptible to the DP, so it makes sense to try to avoid that, or get lucky and get the run. It's unfortunate that it turned out the way it did, but it could've worked also. Just got unlucky on the play. You have to commit whether or not to take off from third before the ball is hit in that kind of situation, or you have no chance of scoring on any ground ball.