Every 5 Days vs Every 5 Games

[Bombers]

So what is everyone's opinion on having your starting pitchers sticking to an every 5th day schedule vs an every 5th game schedule?

 

I would think you would try to keep your #1-3 guys in the rotation to an every 5th day schedule as much as possible. The 4th and 5th guys might lose some starts / get skipped but in my opnion, oh well. I don't think having Yo go every 6th day is the best decision to have this team make the post-season. IMO, he should have pitched on Friday as he last pitched on Sunday April 17th. But no, they lined him up for Saturday and that was rained out. So now it's been a week between starts. I always hear pitchers are a breed of routine and consitency, so why throw your best pitchers off their normal schedule?

 

I guess I just don't get it, Yo and Marcum should be pitching every 5th day. And when Greinke gets back him too.

[dlk9s]

Pitching on an extra day or two of rest every now and then isn't a big deal. If anything, it's good. Yo hasn't struggled his last two games because of extra rest. He just hasn't pitched well.

[Ennder]

For our rotation I prefer every 5 games, we just have too many guys who haven't gone 200 innings before.

[JohnBriggs12]

I prefer every 5 games as well. If one guy was struggling to the point you may want to skip him but otherwise, let them have an extra day of rest once in a while. All the starters including Estrada, are capable of posting quality starts on any given day.. Yo hasn't shown the consistency at any point in his career to have such a clear edge over the rest of the staff. Marcum has an injury history. Why risk messing up your 4th and 5th guys by skipping them?

[Patrick425]

I'm solidly in the every 5 days category. Your 1,2,3 pitchers are there for a reason and if you have any opportunity to pitch them more than the 4 & 5 pitchers then it should be done. I really hate this fear of "over pitching" someone. They are in the majors now. If they can't pitch 200+ innings they shouldn't be getting paid millions of $$.

Yo hasn't shown the consistency at any point in his career to have such a clear edge over the rest of the staff.

So, not taking salary into account, would you be willing to trade Gallardo for Wolf or for Narveson? Gallardo is better than either of those guys over the course of a full season and if you can get him more starts, take it.

[Bombers]

Ya thats where I am at, every 5 days for the top 3. I don't see why you would want to give all your 5 starters around 32 starts each. 1-3 should get more. 5 days is beyond enough rest. IMO there is absolutely no reason a pitcher needs an extra days rest in April.

[crewcuts]

Bobby Valentine was saying that when he managed in Japan, the every 5th day setup was utilized and not one of his starters went down to injury from overuse. He (and I ) contend that less throwing has led to MORE injuries. Agents and the Players Union are the obstacle...

[Bombers]

Just to point this out if we continue to go every 5 games vs every 5 days for our starters this is how many more starts each will have until the all-star break:

Row Labels	5 Games	5 Days
Gallardo	7	8
Greinke	7	8
Marcum	7	7
Narveson	7	6
Wolf	8	7

I don't know about you but I will take 1 more start for Yoyo & Greinke and 1 less for Wolf & Narveson.

Breakdown:

Date	Opponent	Every 5 games	Every 5 Days	Date.	Opponent.	Every 5 games.	Every 5 Days.
2	Off			23	Off
3	@ Marlins	Wolf	Gallardo	24	Twins	Wolf	Gallardo
4	@ Marlins	Gallardo	Wolf	25	Twins	Gallardo	Greinke
5	@ Marlins	Narveson	Greinke	26	Twins	Narveson	Marcum
6	@ Marlins	Greinke	Marcum	27	Off
7	Mets	Marcum	Narveson	28	@Yankees	Greinke	Wolf
8	Mets	Wolf	Gallardo	29	@Yankees	Marcum	Gallardo
9	Mets	Gallardo	Wolf	30	@Yankees	Wolf	Greinke
10	Cardinals	Narveson	Greinke	1	@Twins	Gallardo	Narveson
11	Cardinals	Greinke	Marcum	2	@Twins	Narveson	Marcum
12	Cardinals	Marcum	Narveson	3	@Twins	Greinke	Wolf
13	@ Cubs	Wolf	Gallardo	4	Diamondbacks	Marcum	Gallardo
14	@ Cubs	Gallardo	Wolf	5	Diamondbacks	Wolf	Greinke
15	@ Cubs	Narveson	Greinke	6	Diamondbacks	Gallardo	Narveson
16	@ Cubs	Greinke	Marcum	7	Reds	Narveson	Marcum
17	@ Red Sox	Marcum	Narveson	8	Reds	Greinke	Wolf
18	@ Red Sox	Wolf	Gallardo	9	Reds	Marcum	Gallardo
19	@ Red Sox	Gallardo	Wolf	10	Reds	Wolf	Greinke
20	Rays	Narveson	Greinke
21	Rays	Greinke	Marcum
22	Rays	Marcum	Narveson

[joepepsi]

Earl Weaver's Seventh Law: It's easier to find four good starters than five.

 

Probably other of his contemporaries did this too, but Earl used 4 main starters, then would use an occasional spot start from a long man in the bullpen, or a young kid he was breaking into the rotation. For example, the 1978 team used a rotation of Palmer, Flanagan, Dennis Martinez, and Scot MacGregor, each starting between 35-40 games. Then Nelson Briles made 8 starts, and Joe Kerrigan made 2. I find this to be a brilliant strategy.

 

The season is roughly 6 months long. That's 182 days to play 162 games. That means 20 off days built into the schedule. Add in the 10 starts by random mop up guys, like Earl did in 1978, and that leaves your 4 starters to pitch 152 games over 182 days. That leaves 30 off days for the 4 man rotation, or about one day off every 5 days. So a manager who actually plans ahead could go with a 4 man rotation and still have each start only every 5 days. Your best 4 pitchers would get about 38 starts in a year.

[Ennder]

For most rotations every 5 days makes sense, for a team who has a bunch of guys coming off of injuries or who haven't gone a full season the 5 man rotation makes sense. Now that Greinke is back the 5 days starts to make a little more sense again but when he was injured the 5 pitcher rotation was certainly much better imo.

[Raw Biz]

Probably other of his contemporaries did this too, but Earl used 4 main starters, then would use an occasional spot start from a long man in the bullpen, or a young kid he was breaking into the rotation. For example, the 1978 team used a rotation of Palmer, Flanagan, Dennis Martinez, and Scot MacGregor, each starting between 35-40 games. Then Nelson Briles made 8 starts, and Joe Kerrigan made 2. I find this to be a brilliant strategy.

I think you mean Dave Kerwin.

[Ennder]

36-38 starts used to be common in baseball but as the players get better and the pitchers get diluted from expansion it isn't really realistic to go without the 5th established starter anymore.

[pebadger]

Probably other of his contemporaries did this too, but Earl used 4 main starters, then would use an occasional spot start from a long man in the bullpen, or a young kid he was breaking into the rotation. For example, the 1978 team used a rotation of Palmer, Flanagan, Dennis Martinez, and Scot MacGregor, each starting between 35-40 games. Then Nelson Briles made 8 starts, and Joe Kerrigan made 2. I find this to be a brilliant strategy.

I think you mean Dave Kerwin.

Excellent.

[TooLiveBrew]

I was just going to say the same thing, pebadger. That post almost made me snort.

[SenatorShriv]

This thread got me wondering when the 5 man rotation became standard and what the statistical difference between the 4 and 5 man rotations has been. I found this article from Baseball Prospectus to be interesting:

 

http://www.baseballprospe...ticle.php?articleid=1596

 

 

(fixed link --1992)

[Bombers]

Thanks for the link Senator. Good read. I also liked the next article, which talks about pitching on 3 days rest vs watching your pitch count. He concludes that there is no evidence that 4 days rest is any better than 3 days rest to reach a maximum level of rest needed for your arm. The only medical evidence is injuries occur when the body is fatigued. So limiting pitch count and making sure your mechanics are using a fluent motion are more important than days of rest. I liked this comment best:

 

"Throwing is not dangerous to a pitcher's arm. Throwing while tired is dangerous to a pitcher's arm"

[Oxy]

How would people feel about swapping Estrada and Narveson's roles on the team? I realize that Braddock should be back soon, but it would be nice to have a lefty in the pen. Narveson probably isn't suited at this point to quickly warming up and entering the game from the bullpen, but I wouldn't mind seeing that at some point in the future. Our 4 man rotation looks really good for the next year and a half, but I think that 5th spot is up in the air. Narveson, Estrada, Rivas, Peralta, Rogers, Parra? could all find themselves there at some point. It's really not so much that Narveson has been horrible, as he's done as well as could be expected out of a fifth starter, it's just that we have no lefties out in the pen right now and Estrada has looked so good this year that it seems like a waste to use him in middle relief.

[CheezWizHed]

Just go watch "Airplane!" and you will find out how Tommy Lasorda decided that he needs 5 starters. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[1992casey]

SenatorShriv

wrote:

---

I found this article from Baseball

Prospectus to be interesting:

 

http://www.baseballprospe...ticle.php?articleid=1596

Bombers

wrote:

---

I also liked the next

article…

Here's the third article in the series:

 

http://www.baseballprospe...ticle.php?articleid=1622

 

I've had these bookmarked for years, but I'd kind of forgotten about them.

[dlk9s]

Just go watch "Airplane!" and you will find out how Tommy Lasorda decided that he needs 5 starters. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

It was "Police Squad!" actually, but still a great reference:

 

[greeg35]

I think we should shift to every 5 days now.

[CheezWizHed]

It was "Police Squad!" actually, but still a great reference:

 

DOH! I was remembering a shoe shine at an airport. But it was just a shoe shine on the street. Anyway, found a link on YouTube. Classic:

 

[FVBrewerFan]

I have no problem pushing back a start for Yo, Marcum, and Greinke. A little extra rest is a good thing. I rather sacrifice a game or two now for a strong Yo,Marcum, and Greinke in September. Then I would go to every 5 games in September.

[Bombers]

So how about now? Do you still stick to an every 5 games approach?

 

Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that carpenter will be pitching on Thursday? He will be on a normal 4 day rest. (if the cards followed the every 5 games approach Carpenter would miss the Brewers series.

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

I was thinking of the same thing a couple of days ago and almost started this very thread! I am torn on this as well. I guess we can hold the fort for now, but in September I want Yo and Greinke getting as many starts as possible.