Yuniesky Betancourt: What value does he bring to the team? (part 1)

[Tedaldtada]

This thread is a complete trainwreck. Everyone just talking over everyone's head.

 

If Yuni wasn't a Brewer, I have feeling people wouldn't be so spread on the issue.

[Flood Pants]

McGehee has been worse in the field thus far and hasn't done squat with the bat and is suppose to be protecting prince.......... don't hear anyone calling for his head.

1) McGehee has proven he's a better hitter than the small sample shows so far.

2) Prince doesn't seem to be struggling from lack of "protection" in the lineup.

3) We know his defense is bad, but his bat is good. He'll still produce more runs than he gives up. Just like Prince. Betancourt is a different story.

[Baldkin]

McGehee has been worse in the field thus far and hasn't done squat with the bat and is suppose to be protecting prince.......... don't hear anyone calling for his head.

Because McGehee doesn't have 4 years of terribleness to fall back on. He's been average for 2 seasons in a row.

 

Betancourt has been touted as the WORST every day player in baseball for the last 3 years. That is not hyperbole.

 

Maybe Prince needs to make that play, but Betancourt has an 8 foot wide square to throw that ball into and he managed not to do it.

[TheCrew]

Yeah and he's been throwing in a 10 foot window for 20+ years.

 

I'm not trying to turn this into an anti-McGehee thread or anything like that, I love the guy - but if people are going to nitpick and blame an entire loss on a throw by betancourt that was off the mark by inches and not even mention some of the other gaffes last night.......... seems like the only intent in a post like that is to bash Betancourt just because he is Betancourt and they have heard he isn't very good.

[brettac1]

Can't we just all agree that Fielder and Betancourt are both bad defenders, and that they worked together to help lose a game? Seems pretty cut and dried.

[logan82]

I worked at BIS in Pennsylvania a couple years ago. Shifts are not counted, but that's only if the stringer notices them. Trust me, human error comes into play in BIS's numbers more than they'd want people to realize. I like the company overall and think they do very good things, but I could go on for awhile about things they could improve.

Hopefully FieldFX data is used to replace BIS data soon.

 

He is what he is, a slow fielder with Hardyesque range, and an extremely undisciplined hitter

Hardy actually had pretty good range. He just wasn't fast so he looked like he didn't have range but he anticipated and positioned himself well.

[tyguy]

Hey nerds quit blaming this game on one bad throw by Yuniesky. What about our starting pitcher who put us in a a big hole by walking in their number 8 hitter who was batting .050 and their pitcher who was batting .000 back to back or Braun and Fielder combing 1-8. It's a team game, quit blaming it on someone who hasn't been bad defensively at all all season until that 1 throw. Nitpickers and crybabies in a 162 game season crack me up. Yall jump ship after every bad play or 1 loss. It's hilarious.

[PrinceEatMeat]

You think thats the only time hes been bad this season defensively? You must've missed a lot of games then. Lol. But I personally don't blame the loss on him. One play doesn't determine a game, and Prince probably should've caught it regardless.

[logan82]

I was going to say he obviously hasn't been reading the rest of the posts if he thinks Betancourt is getting the blame for the loss. Calling names though is a great way to make friends and definitely adds to the discussion.

[1992casey]

Hey nerds… Nitpickers and crybabies in a 162 game season crack me up.

 

The name-calling is unnecessary and uncalled for, especially the use of "crybabies" and directly referring to members as "nerds."

[tyguy]

I refer to everyone, including myself as a nerd when posting on message boards. And I never called anyone directly on here a crybaby, so I did nothing wrong.

logan: read some of the posts, people are blaming him

princeeatmeat: I never said he was great or amazing or even good for that matter, but he hasn't been bad at all

[TheCrew07]

So now we are going to blame Prince, for not being taller? This is ridiculous. I can't believe all the hate for Betancourt on this site. He is clearly not on par with the great JJ Hardy or Alcides Escobar, but so many on this site jump on every single one of his mistakes. He is what he is, a slow fielder with Hardyesque range, and an extremely undisciplined hitter. We have NO replacement anywhere in sight, so can we move along. I blame Macha.

The lack of an out was on Betancourt, the throw was terrible. The extra base was on Fielder, all he had to do was catch the ball and save a base. It's not complicated baseball, it's something most of us grasped while playing little league, it's fundamental baseball, something Fielder doesn't do well at all, he makes horrible decisions around 1B. He'll be complimented around here for great effort and hustle, but all those diving plays and tags are not good, fundamentally sound baseball, and they drive me nuts. Another example would be how bad he is digging balls out of the dirt, it's because he doesn't play them from the ground up, so he ends up making wild stabs at the the ball, instead of making the fundamental play fielding the ball from the ground up. Not to mention when he first came up there were instances where he was stretching at the IF making the play instead of stretching to where the throw was going. He's literally been making the Brewers IF defense appear worse than it is since he came up to bigs, he truly is that bad.

 

As far as the game goes, there was plenty of blame to go around... Gomez giving up an out for nothing, the uncontested steal...

 

People blamed Yost, then Macha, and sooner or later RR will be at fault for how poorly the Brewers execute fundamentally. Maybe the true fault here lies with the way the Brewers develop their players through the minor leagues as some of us have been saying all along? Some players just get it and never will, but I don't believe that's the case here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DHonks]

TheCrew07, very good post. The thing that amazes me with Fielder's defense is I rarely see his uniform dirty. When Richie Sexson was our 1st baseman, we were commenting on how many runs he saved us. Seemingly every game Richie would have his right knee covered in dirt from bending down using proper fundamentals. Fielder bends at the waist

[PrinceEatMeat]

I refer to everyone, including myself as a nerd when posting on message boards. And I never called anyone directly on here a crybaby, so I did nothing wrong.

logan: read some of the posts, people are blaming him

princeeatmeat: I never said he was great or amazing or even good for that matter, but he hasn't been bad at all

Gonna have to disagree. You can't judge just on errors. He has missed a lot of balls he should've gotten to in the hole and up the middle. I know he has limited range, but he just doesn't put out the effort most SS's do. If he can't simply reach down and grab a ball, he's not gonna stop it. There are some balls he could've dove for and stopped and at least got force outs at second. I know that sometimes he wouldn't make the play anyway, but I'd like to at least see the effort. He has also had poor accuracy on a lot of throws, most of which Prince dug out or saved and made the tag on the runner. He also seems reluctant to go back on balls in shallow left and center. I've seen a few plays where Braun, Gomez, or Morgan has to run all the way in to catch balls they shouldn't have to catch. I'm glad Betancourt only has 2 errors, but I'm not happy at all with his defense, and yes he has been bad as expected.

[jeffy]

someone who hasn't been bad defensively at all all season until that 1 throw

 

His bad defense mostly has come from not getting to balls that should be pretty routine plays. When you never get close and don't touch the ball, you do not get charged with an error, doesn't mean those are not plays that should be made by a major league shortstop.

[logan82]

logan: read some of the posts, people are blaming him

 

Some blame but I see the bulk of the blame being heaped on Fielder. Rightfully so.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

We all know Fielder is a subpar defender. So is Braun for that matter, but they are 2 of the premier bats in the game. We play in the NL without a DH so there is nowhere else to hide them. Despite their bad gloves, they are well worth it and extremely valuable...even if you want to pin last night on Prince, he will make up for it and probably already has.

 

Yuni is bad in the field...and bad at the plate. He could be replaced for the major league minimum. We had to take him to get the Greinke deal done...fine, it's worth it, but eat the dough and move on. Yeah, last night was only 1 of 162, that only tells me he's got more chances to lose games for us. They could start by having Counsell out there more while they work on acquiring anyone not named Yuniesky Betancourt to play SS.

[Funketown]

Yall jump ship after every bad play or 1 loss. It's hilarious.

Actually, most of us have been saying Betancourt would be horrible ever since the Greinke trade, and he has been horrible. Nobody has changed their mind, as far as I can tell. The reason people here are frustrated with Betancourt is not because of what he can do to hurt this club in one game, but what he can and will do to hurt this club over 162 games this season. With the level of talent the Brewers have, a couple additional wins could be extremely valuable.

[JoeHova]

Obviously baseball is a team game and any loss is not directly attributable to 1 guy (well, usually not). However, sometimes a guy does not earn the benefit of the doubt. I watch a ton of Mariners games because I like to have a west coast team to watch after the Brewers games are over. Betancourt is a horrible player who never, ever does anything other than the least that could be expected of a player. He's exactly the kind of player that leads people to hate pro athletes as lazy, entitled guys who don't care about anything but their next check. He's one of the few guys who fits that stereotype like a glove.

[TooLiveBrew]

And I never called anyone directly on here a crybaby, so I did nothing wrong.

 

You called everyone complaining a crybaby, you just didn't call people out specifically by name. It's silly to try & defend that (about as silly as defending Betancourt's defense).

 

 

This thread is a complete trainwreck.

 

Anyway, this is the post I wanted to respond to. I agree completely. Betancourt is exactly as advertised, so I think it's starting to drive people bonkers. The problems this team currently have seem to be pretty glaring, and to this point un-remedied, so basically all of those discussions have just been beaten into the ground... Betancourt, Kotsay, Gomez...

[reillymcshane]

I still wish we would have gone with a guy like Adam Everett - a super slick glove guy that could help cover the defensive weaknesses of guys like Fielder and McGehee.

[COBrewerfan]

If what you have seen with Betancourt has been terrible you are going to have to add a bunch of other guys to the list. It's so early in the season so stats are tough to use for determining this. His average is low but he has hit some balls hard and sooner or later will get his average up. He also has a few errors but so do others. But if this 13 games has shown that he is awful I suppose Weeks, Gomez and Casey are awful as well. Which is not the case. It is just so early and from what I have seen in the 13 games is not awful. We just need more time to see what happens. I like the way this team is setup and if the pitching holds up we are going to win plenty.

[brettac1]

I still wish we would have gone with a guy like Adam Everett - a super slick glove guy that could help cover the defensive weaknesses of guys like Fielder and McGehee.

As much as I tend to lean strongly offense-first as far as players that I prefer, I would have been in favor of a really good defensive SS, even if the guy couldn't hit. The whole "the rest of the lineup can hit, so who cares?" stance makes more sense if the guy can really pick it. Strong defense up the middle is one of the few baseball cliches I actually believe in, and the 2011 Brewers don't have it aside from in CF. If you look at 2008, the team had Hardy, Cameron, and Kendall - who was really great at throwing out runners that season. It also helps that two of those guys were head and shoulders better offensive players than the current guys manning those positions.

 

Anyhow, I think the thing that people trying to defend Betancourt are missing when it comes to the thoughts from the other side is that I don't think anyone who thinks Betancourt is a bad defensive player is basing that off of the 13 games or whatever he has played with the Brewers. It's based on years of data and also years of scouts and whatnot saying he is clearly not a good defender.

[mothershipconnection]

Nitpickers and crybabies in a 162 game season crack me up. Yall jump ship after every bad play or 1 loss. It's hilarious.

 

 

...so I did nothing wrong.

 

While many others are still in WI, I have lived in Texas for 7 years and know perfectly well what "Yall" [sic, recte Y'all] means.

[danzig6767]

If what you have seen with Betancourt has been terrible you are going to have to add a bunch of other guys to the list. It's so early in the season so stats are tough to use for determining this. His average is low but he has hit some balls hard and sooner or later will get his average up. He also has a few errors but so do others. But if this 13 games has shown that he is awful I suppose Weeks, Gomez and Casey are awful as well. Which is not the case. It is just so early and from what I have seen in the 13 games is not awful. We just need more time to see what happens. I like the way this team is setup and if the pitching holds up we are going to win plenty.

The problem with you're argument is that Betancourt isn't a rookie or a guy in just his second or third season. He's in his 7th season, it's very rare for any player in his 7th season to magically revert from being the bad player he's been in the past. How often does say a defensive player who had terrible range as a 26, 27, and 28 year old, out of nowhere show better range as a 29 year old? How often does a guy with 3100 big league at bats and a pathetic 106 walks during that time suddenly start showing some patience at the plate? Just because something is technically possible doesn't mean we should have any hope for it to happen when the odds are about one in a million.

 

Hell, when Yuni was asked in camp if there was any chance that he'd start being more selective at the plate. His response was something to the effect of, i'd like to, but i'm Latin and we Latin players like to hack. Not exactly inspiring words of a guy with any intent at all on changing his by far biggest flaw as a hitter.