2007 Vent Thread, Part 1

[hawing]

Anyone want to sponsor www.firenedyost.com ?

 

The name was registered the other night. Link

[jlau20]

On top of the ridiculous "fielding his position better" comment, Ned also threw out a comment about him having a better slidestep...better than who I'm not sure, probably in reference to Wise.

 

Unfortunately, slidesteps can't prevent stolen bases once he goes in there and loads the bases.

[Fatter than Joey]

Is he better at fielding than at pitching?

 

Apparently -- Maybe Yost thought Aquino would run that HR by Biggio down? -- Maybe he gets to the plate faster than Wise after the WP?

[Blazer25]

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Anyone want to sponsor www.firenedyost.com ?

 

The name was registered the other night. Link

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Wow...that was mostly me ranting but...Wow.

 

It wasn't me I swear.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[jlau20]

On second thought, this loss is Bill Hall's fault. How could he not catch that Biggio home run.

[iluvlamp]

That doesn't mean he has to keep bringing Aquino in. Especially in situations it's proven Aquino spits the bit. There were other pitchers tonight. Ned has 23 thousand of them.

[fstorm1]

fstorm...seriously, you believe it was the right call for Yost to bring in a guy that scores virtually all inherited runners? If not all. You actually believe Yost didn't leave that pitcher out there too long?

 

lamp, I trust the judgment of Attanasio and Melvin, who both believe Ned Yost is the right man for the job. I'm not going to join in the hatred of Ned, because frankly, I don't think I or anyone here could do any better. This is something that alot of folks here don't agree with, sadly.

 

Are there people here who know more about baseball than I? Probably. And that's fine, that's one of the reason's why I visit this site as often as I do. But the hatred of Ned around here is ridiculous. Absurd. Does he make mistakes? Sure. I won't throw out the "nobodies perfect" cliche again, as it apparently holds no water. But it's easy to rail on a guy after the fact. If I were in Ned's shoes tonight would I have made the same moves? I don't know. But I tend to be quicker to lay blame on players for screwing up than coaches. I blame Aquino for much of tonight. There were multiple instances, tonight and all season thus far, where players have not come through. Most, including yourself, choose to blame Ned for that. I blame the player. We see things a little differently. But we all hate to see the Crew loose. And that's good.

 

Now, I do find Ned's "fielding" comment odd, but I'll wait for a little more info before holding him to it.

 

As for joey, I've never used the "nobodies perfect" comment in defense of Ned. I was, in fact, using it on Turnbow, Cordero, and Rivera. Cordero had a fine '06 with the Crew. Aquino has had success in the big leagues. Not on the level of Cordero, or Turnbow, but he's pitched good in many more games than he hasn't: in '05 he had 4 outings were he got rocked, out of 35 total. Take those out (like removing Cordero's bad April last year), and his ERA would have been 3.14 (mmmmm, piiiiiiiii). In '06, he had 4 out of 42 bad. Remove those: 2.01 ERA. Is he a great pitcher? No, he isn't. But he's no dead beat.

 

I certainly expect this team, if healthy, to win far more than 45% of the time this year. I'm not sure I could say that about any of the last few years (mainly because of the health issues). If they don't, then I will certainly question the who's, the why's and the how's, just as I expect Melvin and Attanasio to.

[Nearsighted Views]

Ned Yost is a strategical genious. These were the words of a caller on the PGS the other noght. A strategical genious indeed.

 

So obsessed with the lefty, lefty and righty, righty junk is Yost that he takes the ball and puts in the hands of one of his coldest pitchers in the top of the ninth. And then, in a moment of shear genious, he brilliantly removes the bat from the hottest hitter on his team. Above all, he kept the righties and lefties properly alligned in the sky of the baseball stars.

 

SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO LET A GUY HIT CAUSE HE'S HOT. SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO LET A GUY PITCH CAUSE HE'S HOT. AAAAHHHH!!!

 

*This is not a Ned hater post. I've read some of the other stuff and I'm not going there with this one. I do believe he is overly obsessed with "matchups" I once heard an interview that asked Ned what he does when he can't find a statistical reason to keep a guy in or out. His reply, "I find another layer." At some point, you have to go with your gut.

[danzig6767]

The thing i hated about bringing in Aquino is simply that there was a man on base and Aquino has a history of walking people.Walks are such a killer in late game situations and everytime you use this guy in a close game it's playing with fire that he can throw strikes.

 

I'm not a Yost hater and to often i think fans of every team second guess the manager.With that said,Yost's use of the pen since he's been year just leaves me shaking my head to much.The minute Aquino threw those first few pitches nowhere near the strike zone,i yelled at the TV,please Ned get him out before it's to late.

[AdvantageSchneider]

If I had to put blame on players/coaches tonight, #1 would be Jenkins for grounding out into the DP with guys on first and 3rd and 1 out. All he needs is a lazy fly ball and we've got the lead. Then T-Bow and Coco close the door, and this acquino business never happens. The brew crew stranded too many baserunners today. Frustrating loss, but not a big deal in the scheme of things.

 

i doubt we'll see Aquino in any kind of important spot for a long time. April is a good month for getting the BP roles down. Now Yost knows what Acquino is good for, and it's mop up duty only.

[rluzinski]

Yost makes the same mistake many fans do with regard to judging reliever talent. He thinks back to the last couple of games and says, "He's been decent, I'm going to send him in." Aquino isn't a rookie, he has two years of mediocre pitching under his belt. Yost doesn't care about those performances, though.

 

It's the same silliness Yost did last year with Shouse. Shouse had a couple nice outs for him early, so Yost stopped using him as a strict LOOGY with predictable results. He learned his lesson but with a cost. Too bad he had to go through the same process with Aquino.

[iluvlamp]

Did Shouse directly contribute to 2 losses?

[sbrylski]

He fields his position better!?!?!? Wha!?!?

 

 

I don't care about the site's puncation rule right now either.

 

This is a chart I made:

 

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d175/sbrylski06/NYHL.jpg

 

As you can see, I cooled quite a bit off over the offseason about some of Yost's decisions last year. I was neutral on him for a while, and then I even like him after some of his spring training comments. Notice the trend line...

[thablingster]

ROFL @ the Yost hate level.

 

I am one of the last people to claim we got Yosted, but yes, tonight, we were Yosted. Aquino is the last guy who should be touching the baseball in a tie game in the 9th inning at home. I'd rather see Elmer Desse--okay, that's not true, but you get the point.

[Ennder]

iluvlamp, Yost did not directly contribute to two losses,in a perfect world you could always use your best RP in every situation but the reality is you simply cannot, you sometimes do have to use your #4 RP.

 

The last game Aquino was in there is no way Yost lost that game. This time I don't have a problem with him putting in Aquino but once he loaded the bases I think its time to go to Turnbow.

 

As for small sample sizes, if Maddux thought he had fixed Aquino's wildness then who cares about what Aquino did 2 years ago. Bill Hall had a solid career of sucking until 2 years ago, doesn't mean we shouldn't have been playing him.

 

I look at this situation and think that our Bullpen is a problem because it doesn't have depth, Cordero is the only sure thing. Wise and Turnbow are acceptable and the rest of it is a blackhole as far as I'm concerned. Thats not a good thing.

[twobrewers]

Am I the only one who hates the use of ERA for relief pitchers as a statistic?

 

Coming into last nights game Aquino had a 2.70 ERA. That just seems soo misleading since he lets every runner he inherits to score!!

 

And Matt Wise having to take the loss for that game bothers me as well. Wise made a good play on the first batter - almost caught the bunt. And when Aquino kills us - Wise gets the loss.

 

Do we know why it wasn't Cordero? I mean, tie game/at home/9th inning - isn't using your closer pretty standard in the situation?

 

Or as my friend put it last night...

Honestly, he would have done less damage if the would have dropped his pants and spawned a fresh brown trout right there on the mound, got ejected and allowed a random 12 year old girl from the stands to pitch for him, because that girl would no doubt walk 5 batters on 20 pitches and only allowed 2 runs in before getting pulled.

 

i think he's confused and thinks that if the brewers lose we can get either oden or durant in the draft

[MillerParkSouth]

9th inning, tie game, at home, top of the order coming up, why not freaking bring in cordero??? seriously ned, have some faith in your offense. aquino???!?!? give me a damn break. prince 3 run jack in the bottom of 9 should win it 99% of the time. i can't even begin to explain how much this team frustrates me sometimes.

[PKBadger]

My Yost infection is flaring up again!!!!!

[naivin]

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Aquino is the last guy who should be touching the baseball in a tie game in the 9th inning at home. I'd rather see Elmer Desse--okay, that's not true, but you get the point.

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I do get the point, and the point is, if you say that Aquino should not have been in there, you need to provide a viable alternative. Would Dessens or Villenuava been better option? Not sure I buy that necessarily. Maybe you keep Wise in. Maybe. (of course if he keeps Wise in and he gets tagged - Yost is an idiot for doing that as well). You gonna put Shouse out there? Turnbow threw about 1000 pitches the day prior (and didn't throw most of them that well), so I don't see that one. Yost said he chose not to use Cordero because Houston had the bottom of the order coming up, thought Aquino could get the job done and they'd have Cordero for the top/heart of the order in the 10th. Certainly seems logical even if it didn't work out.

 

See, that's the thing...not only does he not have the luxury of time and hindsight that the genuses on this board do, he has to look past the next couple of AB's when making decisions, and generally has to do it immediately. Most here also like to act as if he makes these decisions without any input from guys like Mike Maddux, Dale Sveum, etc. Ultimately the decision is his, but by no means is he making them in a vacum, as those who are criticizing more or less are.

 

All of that being said, here we are witha real problem. Aquinoo cannot be used in a close games. Capellan can't be brought up and rewarded for acting like a dope, so the bull pen is thin right now as far as protecting a small lead prior to the 8th or 9th. We all better hope that the starters work deep and we get some big leads so they don't need as many pitchers and so they can get Aquino out there in safe opportunities to try to get some confidence back.

[MrAgro]

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said he chose not to use Cordero because Houston had the bottom of the order coming up, thought Aquino could get the job done and they'd have Cordero for the top/heart of the order in the 10th. Certainly seems logical even if it didn't work out.

 

See, that's the thing...not only does he not have the luxury of time and hindsight that the genuses on this board do, he has to look past the next couple of AB's when making decisions, and generally has to do it immediately. Most here also like to act as if he makes these decisions without any input from guys like Mike Maddux, Dale Sveum, etc.

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So where was Cordero when Biggio came to the plate with the bases juiced? If he's saving Cordero for the top of the order, he should be running out there like his feet are on fire when Biggio shows up an inning early with the bases loaded.

 

Did Ned, Dale, and Mike think Cordero was the man for the job only if it was a fresh inning? The top of the order is less of a threat with the bases loaded?

 

If Ned said that, he is an idiot because the top of the order showed up and Coco diddn't.

[Fatter than Joey]

because frankly, I don't think I or anyone here could do any better. This is something that alot of folks here don't agree with, sadly.

 

You are probably correct -- There probably isn't anyone here that could play CF better than Hall, or 3b better than Counsell either -- BFnet is not the manager/player replacement pool. Personally I would be happy to give the Tic Tac Toe chicken a chance managing our bullpen.

 

But I tend to be quicker to lay blame on players for screwing up than coaches.

 

To a point... If you continually run Jenkins to bat against LHP (e.g.), and he struggles, you have to blame the manager.

 

I blame Aquino for much of tonight.

 

His stats and high walk rate are available on the interwebs. -- Yost could/should know the limitations of Aquino. Aquino didn't have anything to do with Yost misusing his BP on Thursday either.

 

Sure. I won't throw out the "nobodies perfect" cliche again

 

Thanks. Sometimes I think people expect that Ned should have a poster of that kitten hanging from a branch, or that kid with the bowl of spaghetti dumped on his head, or that "Pobody's Nerfect" t-shirt in his office.

 

No one is picking on Yost for one time game decisions -- rather a continued display of head-scratching stubbornness. I think a lot of his decisions not only cost us the game currently played but games down the road -- for example, I think (IMO) if Hart had gotten more playing time in 2006, he'd be hitting better and fielding better in 2007.

 

Remove those: Aquino 2.01 ERA.

 

Right -- Of course though Aquino has had 2 bad appearances recently, -- he has 0 losses though, as Shouse and Wise got hung with Aquino's failures. The problem with Aquino is letting inherited runners score, -- theoretically Aquino could let every inherited runner score and have a 0.00 ERA and no losses.

[tigerbrew]

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All of that being said, here we are witha real problem. Aquinoo cannot be used in a close games. Capellan can't be brought up and rewarded for acting like a dope, so the bull pen is thin right now as far as protecting a small lead prior to the 8th or 9th.

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Why can't Capellan be brought up to replace Aquino?

 

Capellan has a chip on his shoulder about his demotion, his pride is hurt and his ego bruised. In bringing him up, the onus is now on Capellan to pitch well to proof he deserves to be in the big leagues and that management was wrong to demote him. If Capellan pitches poorly, he should be disgraced for his outbursts and demoted back to AAA.

[rluzinski]

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As for small sample sizes, if Maddux thought he had fixed Aquino's wildness then who cares about what Aquino did 2 years ago. Bill Hall had a solid career of sucking until 2 years ago, doesn't mean we shouldn't have been playing him.

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If I were Yost, I'd go ahead and find out if Maddux gave Aquino the magic touch when games aren't on the line. You know, like when the Brewers have a 4 run lead. Yost picks his relievers completely backwards.

[Ennder]

I'm sure Ned would like to do that but Wise had already pitched, Shouse can't face righties, Dessens has been even worse than Aquino, Turnbow threw a lot of pitches the previous two games and he was a) Hoping to not have to use Cordero a 3rd day in a row and b) figured if he HAD to use it why not against the middle of the order.

 

Say what you want but Yost really didn't have very good options there. Leaving in Aquino after bases loaded being a bad call I can agree with, sending Aquino out there I just can't agree with it being a bad call. There just wasn't really anyone else to throw out there.

[chuckcrim]

While Aquino was brutal last night, our hitting with RISP wasn't much better. Jenkins came up with runners on 2nd and 3rd with two outs as well as 1st and 3rd with one out, and he was unable to score a run either time. I also remember Weeks striking out with guys on 2nd and 3rd and two outs after Benny's sacrifice. Great teams find ways to get these runs in, and the Brewers just aren't there yet.